[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler I think the GS along with the PS are the only true high end phones(for Grado) that require as much attention to detail on the front end of ones' system.

Don't agree that the PS-1's have this problem. The PS-1 sound great out of everything and some complain that they must be too colored to make everything sound great. I don't really care because my goal is to just enjoy my music. If I start upgrading and it makes it sound worse because it shows all the flaws, that's not the headphone for me. The GS1000 was one of those headphones.

I'm also not saying the GS1000 isn't better or worse than the RS-1. I'm just saying if you loved the RS-1, the GS1000 is not an upgrade. If you thought the RS-1 had flaws you couldn't live with, the GS1000 might be the answer. If you liked the RS-1 and wanted something very similar but more refined and a little less harsh, the PS-1 might be the answer. I haven't heard the HP-2 yet, so I don't know where that fits in. If you like the RS-1 and dont' want to spend much, get an SR-60 and you'll still have a very fun, enjoyable headphone that works great out of an ipod.

 

[Mercuttio]

Perhaps I was a bit too general in my statement about the GS1000 shredding ears at high volumes. Indeed, proper source and amp can fix this. There are a million arguments about this that anyone could get into.

When it comes down to it, there are a few things here that influence my enjoyment of a headphone.

I like my rig. I get attached to amps... lord knows I've had my PPA sitting on my desk for nearly 2 months without being used, just because I have an attachment to it. As well, I don't have a "God" like setup, but frankly I've got a great amp with some killer tubes and my modded DAC mates with it incredibly well. I like my headphones to sound good on this setup, yes, but at the same time I want to be able to plug my headphone into my Bithead / iPod setup and not have problems listening to things. Heck, I'm sure I might even like a Qualia if someone really figured out a combination that didn't make it suck for me.

The instant I stop listening to certain songs due to any pain or icky sound caused on the part of the headphone, I need to catch myself sooner and discontinue usage of said headphone. The GS1000 started cutting my library of songs down, and the RS1 didn't do that. I might be one of the RS1 sniper teams as mentioned above, but I like the RS1 with anything in my library.

But, I think the discussion here is good. It's certainly quite interesting to see the feelings on this headphone from both sides of the argument.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Don't agree that the PS-1's have this problem. The PS-1 sound great out of everything and some complain that they must be too colored to make everything sound great. I don't really care because my goal is to just enjoy my music. If I start upgrading and it makes it sound worse because it shows all the flaws, that's not the headphone for me. The GS1000 was one of those headphones. I'm also not saying the GS1000 isn't better or worse than the RS-1. I'm just saying if you loved the RS-1, the GS1000 is not an upgrade. If you thought the RS-1 had flaws you couldn't live with, the GS1000 might be the answer. If you liked the RS-1 and wanted something very similar but more refined and a little less harsh, the PS-1 might be the answer. I haven't heard the HP-2 yet, so I don't know where that fits in. If you like the RS-1 and dont' want to spend much, get an SR-60 and you'll still have a very fun, enjoyable headphone that works great out of an ipod.

I found the PS very amp dependpent and came off bloated if it was not fed properly from the front end...i.e. transport. Where the PS fairs much better from PC based systems, the GS is not like that. I did not explain fully that when I owned my PS and was trying to pair it with anything from a Rega TT, Meridian 588, to Mlevinson no39, I noticed with the PS that the back side of the system was more dependent (for my ears) than the front..

It is still these two phones where I feel (and disagree with you politely) above any other Grado that they are the most sensitive to front end.

Also, not that you would mind, I have owned every Grado phone there is except the SR-125.. and have owned the RS-1/2 for years..It is just minimalism that I am after now. ..two sets of cans I will listen to continuosly and reach for always..
That is why I have been downsizing my full size inventory. No need to store up piles of cans if I am not collecting all of them, and definately do not need to list previously owned xxx, just interesting is the educational and learning process attached to headphones is what started me a'wondering
Your statement about the SR60 makes me laugh because that is EXACTLY why I will never opt to part with my 2 pairs...and why I retained the MS-1 too...because I do fancy that intimate sound too sometimes..just not for the majority of my listening now is all..anyway you make some good points, and I agree with most of what you have said here, except the first part

great discussion, this is finest on the GS I have seen or posted to, especially regarding other phones..

 

[Mercuttio]

The SR60 is a tiny god. I would never part with mine, there are times that it's completely essential. On lousy recordings, it totally hazes over the bad stuff and just leaves you with music.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio The SR60 is a tiny god. I would never part with mine, there are times that it's completely essential. On lousy recordings, it totally hazes over the bad stuff and just leaves you with music.

The funny about the SR-60 is I just heard it for the first time 2 weeks ago. I completely skipped over it when I was looking at Grado's. I tested the SR-225 on up when I wanted to buy one. My wife's senn-200 broke, so she picked up a SR-60. I was so surprised at how great they sounded, I got myself a pair a week later. They're perfect for the office. Not so great on the bus.

Anyway, I thought the SR-60 was going to be a great disappointment since I have the PS-1 but that's not the case. I haven't done any direct comparison's but for pure enjoyment, they're on par. They have the great mids, punchy bass, and just have great flow to them. I'm sure they're nowhere as refined but that not the point. It just the fact that you get that great John Grado sound signature in a cheap portable package.

 

[Headphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 ...Instead of the ignorant one liner "Beyer 770" is more refined than the GS-1000, we get true in depth discussion...

What's so ignorant about that? Have you A-B'd them?

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headphony What's so ignorant about that? Have you A-B'd them?

I have. This is a good case where any FR chart you can pull up comparing them is totally useless. Anyone who calls the DT770 more refined than the GS1000 either hasn't heard both at length, or has very poor hearing.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headphony Have you A-B'd them?

Yes, I have. There is little to compare there if speaking to refinement..This is a classic case FR charts can be misleading. A lot of times, the manner in which these charts are plotted and referenced is not consistant or correct for every given listener.. In other words, different ears have unique dimensions, tolerances, and frequencies that affect the way we process sound and hear as humans. Of the issues I see with relying on hard data, it is the sampled head and the dummy heads dimensions that are used in these types of tests..not your head/ears.

Trust/Listen closest to your own ears, they are the finest tools you will find around.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanth the holy trinity of Grados is the RS-1, PS-1, GS-1000.

not to get too far off the GS-1000 topic but,

Zanth, I'm kind of blown away at how easily you dismiss the HP series phones, as if they are below the RS-1's (do they at least compete with the 225

).

When I first heard about the PS-1 headphone it was described by this gentleman on audiogon as an HP-1,2 except with more bass. I realize the differences are more than that now, but his point was that they are VERY similar sounding with only minor variations (Bass being not so minor).

After hearing iamdone's PS-1's, I wanted a pair (but still felt the GS-1000 was on par with them, while the RS-1 just didn't quite seem at the same level). Nothing was available (suprise), and an HP-2 came up which I snagged figuring I could sell it back if I didn't like it without loss.

It turns out - I felt like I just put a more nuetral PS-1 on my head. That audiogoner's comment came back to mind. I feel the PS-1's go towards iamdone's preference of "what sounds best" becuase they have a lushness that to me has the best SQ of all Grados. But for my preference, I wanted the closest thing I can get to the recording with no salt or butter added, if you will. I not only preferred the HP-2 to the PS-1 but also to the GS-1000. This is clearly a preference thing and the differences which I felt put the HP-2 on top for me were that the PS-1 had an artificially smooth, liquid treble (which you yourself admitted in a post). To add to that the bass on the PS-1 was ubiquitous, and I felt in a small soundstage was too much even though it was tight and controlled.

So, I am just suprised that you drop the HP-1,2 off the chart in compared to John's phones considering that the two most refined Grado's to me clearly are the HP-1,2 and PS-1 (by refinement I mean resolving, smooth, liquid, and detailed) and not to mention that they sound very much alike.

Is it because becuase you like John over Joe

, or that you just don't like the fact that it is neutral?

I think the best Grado ever made is the HP-1,2 followed closely by the GS-1000 or PS-1, and then finally the RS-1 wich was a level below all 3 to me.

Or is it simply a preference thing and not considering technical merits, refinement and accuracy?

Just curious - I hope you take this as a simple inquiry

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headphony What's so ignorant about that? Have you A-B'd them?

I won't engage in arguments about ridiculous claims.

All I can say is stick around; you have a lot to learn.

And please don't throw the "preference" or that I'm "sounding elitist" replies at me. Some things are just obvious.

 

[Zanth]

I think SR60's are a fantastic little phone and well worth the 70 odd bucks they cost. They do provide a wonderful midrange, a really fun pumping bass and enough details in the highs that one doesn't necessarily need to chase after the higher end Grados.

As for GS-1000's and system matching, this goes for any phone, not just the GS-1000's, my only argument is that because they are more sensitive and more transparent, they tend to reveal the nasties more easily. If one doens't like those nasties, they can drop the phone or switch around the upstream components, if one doesn't care about them, they can stay as is. Some don't hear the nasties one way or another. YMMV.

As for why I place the John Grados above the Joe's...well, fun factor is a big one. The John Grados are seriously much more entertaining for me than Joe's phones. This does make sense since Joe's phones were meant to be mastering tools and John's, an audiophile's delight. As for resolution and refinement...I've long debated whether the RS-1 was more resolving and after a good amount of time, I would give the nod to RS-1's overall, but HP-1000's in the bass if only because without the midbass hump, one is able to listen to the well textured notes more easily than with RS-1's. PS-1's go deeper than HP-1000's but still not as textured nor as tight and snappy. For a midrange, RS-1 and PS-1 are so close to the HP-1000's in terms of resolution etc,. that I would place them in a 3 way, and including GS-1000's a 4 way. Really, they are just so close here that it is really just coming down to the flavour one prefers. Now, the highs? No contest, GS-1000's have the most information, the PS-1's have the most enjoyable, and the RS-1/HP-1/PS-1 and GS-1000 are all nearly as extended that again so close it really doesn't make much difference to me.

So why did I sell my HP-1's and not the PS-1's or RS-1's at the time? For one, the RS-1's are my first real entry into high-end and a gift from my wife, not to mention the intimacy I go on about, as well as the near perfect tone and timber for instruments I actually play. These characteristics keep that phone around, permanently. The PS-1's are more fun, and had that liquid sound I couldn't give up, so the HP-1's left me to fund a phono stage. What tends to happen with me is that I get a pair of HP-1000's and I listen for a good while paired with my Melos. I am blown away by the sound, the clarity, the neutrality the hard hitting solid, best sounding bass in headphone land, but then I dawn the RS-1's or PS-1's and I get this feeling that I had been missing something, like the essence of the music and so I tended to migrate back to these phones overall. Now with the GS-1000's my system is a bit different. At school (I have an office/study there) I have the iPod/RA-1/RS-1 combo and it stays there. At home I have the GS-1000/Ear HP4 and the PS-1 sometimes paired with the HP4, but mainly with the Melos. Sure I lust after the HP-1000's and will until I get another pair but the cost to get them at this point is insane. I remember the days I could pick them up for 500 bucks, in fact I had three at one time, no four! though one was a loaner. The point? For the cost they sell at now (not even in mint condition) I had 3 pairs. The most I've paid for a pair is 700 and the most I have sold one is 900 (the exact cost of my phono stage). I'm just not interested in spending the big bucks for a phone I know won't get the same use as the other Grados which I would really honestly choose time and time again over the HP-1000's. Just different strokes for different folks.

If we deal with build quality, HP-1000's destroy any Grado and well, any other phone really. In terms of sound, sure the HP-1000's are hte most neutral transducer I have ever heard but sometimes that gets boring. I've never denied I enjoy colour. What I have continually espoused is that so does almost everyone else, even if they don't admit it. Otherwise, everyone would race after the HP-1000's/Gilmore V2/GS-1 etc. Since this does not happen, it is obvious people place higher priority on other aspects of sound and not just the most neutral/linear presentation. Tone and timber are more realistic for woodwinds with the RS-1's and GS-1000's than on the PS-1 or HP-1000's, though the latter fair better with electric guitar and drums not to mention a good amount of synthesized music. The PS-1's are my prefered phone for electronica, the RS-1's for jazz, the GS-1000's for symphonies and larger orchestral works, the RS-1's for chamber and small wind and string ensembles, the PS-1's for most rock and pop leaving the HP-1000's never being a favourite for any one genre for me, though again, their bass is the best I've ever heard.

 

[vapman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler turn the volume down some.. yeah, I don't think 30 seconds is quite enough to form any worthy impressions or hughmungus cases of acute titinus What was your source, I am quasi-curious to know.. thanks for sharing and keeping it on topic..

it was at the last boston meet, and the volume was actually a bit quiet

the amp was a "HeadRoom Home Balanced w/ 2006 Max module & DAC fed by MacBook Pro"

 

[J-Pak]

I think it's a little funny that some people are so hell bent on elitism that they can throw away the opinions of others.

As for my DT770 comment I still stand by it. (Note I wasn't the one to say it was more refined; I will disagree with that).

(everything in my opinion, I understand it will sound different in different systems)
The bass in the GS-1000 to me was overpowering. The midrange isn't what is trying to capture the listener. It did nothing for me for female vocals. High frequencies are more pronounced, and thus making them fatigueing, I suspect this is what Headroom was refering to when they said it was suitable for low volume listening; when the higher frequencies are louder then you naturally want to listen at lower volume. This is why people feel the need to crank Sennheisers; the more distant treble.

As for the GS-1000 strengths it has excellent imaging for a headphone. I would say it is the second best I've ever heard (first goes to the K1000). This is quite a compliment since headphones just can't image. It has a nice soundstage, while staying natural. None of that "fisheye lens" stuff going on here; the soundstage is coherant.

Classical music is nice because it does give a decent feel for performance venues which is due in part to a nice decay of notes. However I would not use these headphones for classical because they are colored. Simple as that. A balanced HD650 (Headroom Home Balanced) or STAX Omega 2 system is the best I've heard large symphony classical. However when it comes to classical music I feel there aren't any headphones that can do this complex genre justice. To me it's only enjoyable on hifi speakers that can fill the room with sound.

For rock (studio) music I would rather be listening to a RS-1 or PS-1. Both are just more enjoyable. The GS-1000 is nice for live rock concerts, but lacks the magic for electric guitars.

Where does this leave the GS-1000? In my opinion it's in dead water. It doesn't do anything exceptionally and it certainly isn't a value at $1000 in my opinion.

I have another top dynamic headed my way, I'm looking forward to seeing how I like them (or dislike).

 

[Zanth]

Funny how you call out those dismissing the opinions of others and then you go and do the exact same thing. The bass is overpowering to whom now? Oh..to you in your system or in the systems you've experience with. I don't see my system there though? Hmm, interesting. So really, what is at the heart of the matter is that the phone can act a certain way in this system or that system but perhaps not the same way in another system. Seems logical as this applies to any and all phones. For you, you prefer Omega II's or HD650's to others, they may dismiss those (particularly the 650's) as nothing outstanding, in fact rather lackluster. Whatever floats one boat and all that. Declaring that any phone outright sucks is at minimum tomfoolery, because not every combination has been tried with any phone. Somebody somewhere will come upon a system that will work for them and that's it that's all.

 

[rshdhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak I think it's a little funny that some people are so hell bent on elitism that they can throw away the opinions of others. As for my DT770 comment I still stand by it. (Note I wasn't the one to say it was more refined; I will disagree with that). The bass in the GS-1000 is overpowering. The midrange isn't what is trying to capture the listener. There is nothing special about this headphone for female vocals. High frequencies are more pronounced, and thus making them fatigueing, I suspect this is what Headroom was refering to when they said it was suitable for low volume listening; when the higher frequencies are louder then you naturally want to listen at lower volume. This is why people feel the need to crank Sennheisers; the more distant treble. As for the GS-1000 strengths it has excellent imaging for a headphone. I would say it is the second best I've ever heard (first goes to the K1000). This is quite a compliment since headphones just can't image. It has a nice soundstage, while staying natural. None of that "fisheye lens" stuff going on here; the soundstage is coherant. Classical music is nice because it does give a decent feel for performance venues which is due in part to a nice decay of notes. However I would not use these headphones for classical because they are colored. Simple as that. A balanced HD650 (Headroom Home Balanced) or STAX Omega 2 system is the best I've heard large symphony classical. However when it comes to classical music I feel there aren't any headphones that can do this complex genre justice. To me it's only enjoyable on hifi speakers that can fill the room with sound. For rock (studio) music I would rather be listening to a RS-1 or PS-1. Both are just more enjoyable. The GS-1000 is nice for live rock concerts, but lacks the magic for electric guitars. Where does this leave the GS-1000? In my opinion it's in dead water. It doesn't do anything exceptionally and it certainly isn't a value at $1000 in my opinion. I have another top dynamic headed my way, I'm looking forward to seeing how I like them (or dislike).

Your comments on GS1000 is between useless(repeating others, that is common including me) and dangerous(dont know it is wrong and insist on it, this is not so common together with repeating ).