[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Funny how you call out those dismissing the opinions of others and then you go and do the exact same thing. The bass is overpowering to whom now? Oh..to you in your system or in the systems you've experience with. I don't see my system there though? Hmm, interesting. So really, what is at the heart of the matter is that the phone can act a certain way in this system or that system but perhaps not the same way in another system. Seems logical as this applies to any and all phones. For you, you prefer Omega II's or HD650's to others, they may dismiss those (particularly the 650's) as nothing outstanding, in fact rather lackluster. Whatever floats one boat and all that. Declaring that any phone outright sucks is at minimum tomfoolery, because not every combination has been tried with any phone. Somebody somewhere will come upon a system that will work for them and that's it that's all.

I wasn't dismissing anyones opinion. Just saying that dismissing the other guy's opinion (posted the Headroom graph) because he was new is definitely elitist.

Everything I said was my opinion.

Quote:

So really, what is at the heart of the matter is that the phone can act a certain way in this system or that system but perhaps not the same way in another system.

Of coures, but in the end I can't guess how it's going to sound in anyone elses system. Just the one I heard it in.

This forum would be pretty much pointless if everyone wasn't allowed to post about how a headphone sounded just because it sounds better or worse in someone elses system.

I said I prefer the balanced HD650 and O2 for classical, not as a general preference.

And I never said the GS-1000 sucks.

edit: sorry Zanth rereading my post I see how that came off as "factual", I have edited it. I suppose a lot of this strong feeling is because I really love Grados. They were the first headphone that brought me in here, and I just wanted to enjoy the GS-1000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rshdhead Your comments on GS1000 is between useless(repeating others, that is common including me) and dangerous(dont know it is wrong and insist on it, this is not so common together with repeating ).

Useless, sure it's probably useless. I doubt it's dangerous. If anything it's encouraging someone to listen to them first before dropping 10 c notes.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rshdhead Your comments on GS1000 is between useless(repeating others, that is common including me) and dangerous(dont know it is wrong and insist on it, this is not so common together with repeating ).

That's a bit much, don't you think? Dangerous?

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak edit: sorry Zanth rereading my post I see how that came off as "factual", I have edited it. I suppose a lot of this strong feeling is because I really love Grados. They were the first headphone that brought me in here, and I just wanted to enjoy the GS-1000.

No problem. Being let down will of course ignite some strong feelings and discussing those feelings here is what Head-fi is all about, with some courtesy of course (which you showed, I'm just stating the obvious now). Everyone is permitted to like or dislike whatever they want, as long as they don't streamroll the opposing view points. It is one thing that really gets me (not just in this thread) but in all threads, hence the IMO etc, being obvious yet sometimes required so that folks don't get the feeling a poster is being high and mighty.

 

[Blackmore]

Holy molly guys, what an discussion, SIMPLY GREAT. I enjoy every line been written, yeah. Well to recall something that been already said up here, the whole issue with GS1 is that not a lot of people have tried them yet. I think when people will come together in the meetings and stuff, than you can hear a lot more about it. What happened now is only couple of head-fiers up here trying to express their feelings and that's it. And this is also a big SHORTCOMING, if I can say so.
I love GRADO sound, I have heard them one time like ages ago, but couldn't buy then. And that was SR60 if I not wrong about it. I know that I was kind of shocked and I asked the seller is this kind of phone that build more like the speaker. And he said, yes it is. Well I understand this now, after trying of different ones over and over again I still found GRADO sound more real than others. One thing that hearts me is that a lot of the phones, that up there, I will never get a chance listen to them. Because you never know what can happened when you just meet another RIGHT one.
Life and money are to short in the most of the time. But I am VERY HAPPY with what I have know, because that's a lot to, for me anyway. Sooner of later John will make another one, maybe GS2 or something. So we will see what happened then...

 

[GoRedwings19]

Zanth,Rsdhead,Jpak>Regardless of what opinion the GS may hold or in fact any other headphone. Maybe it one preferences and taste's which play a major role on percieving what makes or breaks it.

And while many feel that the GS is best grado ever there will be an opposite number that don't hold it in the same regard.

I suppose it depends on what your previous experience with grado's such as rs, ps and hp-series.

My feelings on the GS is one of a mixed affair. It adds to the mix what many grado lovers and haters say lacked to the previous incarnations. Yet why is the older grado's still regarded by some as still the best?

This discussion will no doubt continue as more and more people get to try them. Their opinions will also add to the ones currently posted here and other threads regarding the GS.

There are plenty pf members who do not like the hp, ps or rs series who will find the GS series headphones to fit the roles that the previous incarnations could not fill. While others will stick to the older grado's.

But at the same time one must remember that the end goal is the same. It provides a way of means to reproduce music to the individuals taste's, preferences, budget etc. This of course can be appplied to all headphones.

Whether the GS represents good value for money at $1k is highly subjective and can never be resolved. Simply because it depends how much musical enjoyment it provides compared to other headphones at differing price points according to your likes and dislikes.

For someone who doesn't like it or not as fond of it compared to the rs or 650 it will never represent good price/performance ratio. Yet having said that it will be equally true that someone who enjoys it more than the rs or 650's or headphones above that price point it will represent excellent price/performance and to them beat out other headphones which are held in higher regard and more costlier options.

zanth>Well I am not sure whether it is entirely wrong whether to say if a headphone completely sucks as from that persons perspective they are right. Now from your perspective you don't share the same experience so with that in regards you cannot agree with the statement. But also they cannot share the same experience as yours and therefore to them your experience is also wrong.

Look at your r-10 experience. So many enjoy the headphones on a level that you yourself find it difficult to elevate to. Is it your system, your hearing, is it theirs? Who knows, The main thing is you have discovered for yourself that you simply do not like them while so many do. There is nothing wrong with that. Same applies to the people who cannot get the GS to sing for them.

Yet you enjoy grado's more and more than likely you would take the GS over the r-10's.

But this discussion thread does provide an insight for other potential GS owners whether it may suit their needs. Simply becuase people have stated the positives and negatives they find of the GS. The fact it has remained civil and polite will no doubt make the choice for those members easier to decide.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 zanth>Well I am not sure whether it is entirely wrong whether to say if a headphone completely sucks as from that persons perspective they are right. Now from your perspective you don't share the same experience so with that in regards you cannot agree with the statement. But also they cannot share the same experience as yours and therefore to them your experience is also wrong. Look at your r-10 experience. So many enjoy the headphones on a level that you yourself find it difficult to elevate to. Is it your system, your hearing, is it theirs? Who knows, The main thing is you have discovered for yourself that you simply do not like them while so many do. There is nothing wrong with that. Same applies to the people who cannot get the GS to sing for them. Yet you enjoy grado's more and more than likely you would take the GS over the r-10's. But this discussion thread does provide an insight for other potential GS owners whether it may suit their needs. Simply becuase people have stated the positives and negatives they find of the GS. The fact it has remained civil and polite will no doubt make the choice for those members easier to decide.

No doubt opinions matter, what isn't true however is that a phone sucks because someone says it does. It sucks for them of course, fine, or is the greatest phone of all time, fine, but sucks absolutely? No way, of course not! This is all I was getting at. When I responded it was to JPak who had originally come on pretty strongly against the proponents of the GS-1000 and he was of the other camp stating they were dead in the water, dismissing the GS-1000's outright. Essentially (at least how I originially took it, though I was corrected and JPak edited his original post because he wasn't trying to come across like this) everything is an IMO. We should all know this, but sometimes people come on out and start posting as if they are THE authority and whatever they say goes. I mean, I know this guy who loves some Sony phones and hates Grados and spews venom in all sorts of Grado threads and then goes on to promote Sonys. Gets annoying really quick, particularly when in the end, it is all about flavours.

True for me regarding the R10's, though you know I did like them from my iPod with bass boost

So there is hope for them yet! They just need to come down a few grand or so, fall in line with the cost of a portable DAP and I'm all set

All threads should be so civil, it would make this place a much happier one and far more informative. I fully enjoy discussing audio products, hence me being a member here and it wouldn't be nearly as fun if everyone loved the same stuff and just went on and on about it. The biggest concern for me is that some people intend or at least come off as intending to convert other members to their "team" for some insane reason. Again, a pair of cheap ear buds can likely sound good given the right setup and if someone has found that setup, who are we to argue? Particularly if they have experimented with bigger and "better." Heck, I myself don't even HATE the older ibuds (though the newest iteration isn't as full sounding), in fact, the ones that came with my iPhoto are half decent but obviously not the first phone I'll turn to for enjoyment!

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckickflip it was at the last boston meet, and the volume was actually a bit quiet the amp was a "HeadRoom Home Balanced w/ 2006 Max module & DAC fed by MacBook Pro"

Thanks.

It is swell to hear the problem did not continue. Usually meets are not the most ideal place to demo any dynamic headphone and often entail additional volume to monitor most any phones..

 

[robm321]

Zanth - thanks for the explanation!

Good stuff.

I think you and iamdone lean towards the same preference. I guess I do as well at times, but am a sucker for the "traditional audiophile" goals of the equipment getting out of the way of the music.

That being said, I LOVE John's coloration on all of his phones. In fact, I go through streaks where I will listen to my K-10000 and HP-2 and want a window into the recording, and then another streak where I want the timbre, and a more high frequency focused, and fun presentation to get lost in. For that I use the GS-1000 and RS-1. I really want to sell the RS-1 becuase when comparing to my GS-1000, it just seems to lack something. I think it may be that I've had it for so many years that it doesn't suprise me anymore - where the GS-1000 still does.

After reading your post I may not sell off my RS-1 after all, because I can relate to how you feel about it and have this sad feeling that has turned to excitement now that I don't have to give them up. I think the RS-1 serves a purpose that the others just can't.

You are not helping my wallet any BTW

Anyway, I guess I lean towards the studio phones (K-1000 and HP-2 are may top 2 phones), but I wouldn't be without as you say the "audiophile delight" phones, GS-1000 and RS-1 (I guess they are staying

) - they clearly are more on the fun side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanth This does make sense since Joe's phones were meant to be mastering tools and John's, an audiophile's delight.

I thought the PS-1's were made for studio use as well

 

[Zanth]

Seriously...Benny Goodman on stage through RS-1's, can't be bettered by any phone I've tried (to my ears in my system

) same goes for many other performers, there is something just magical about RS-1's.

Back in the late 90's there was a reviewer (Cory Greenburg I believe) who prefered the RS-1/RA-1 and RS-1/Melos over the Big O! In fact, he prefered it over the Omega II's as well. He even dropped his HP-2's (he had them along with the Melos) when the RS-1's came out. He loved them that much. It really goes to show that it really is all about taste and Cory Greenburg was not a "bought off" reviewer, he was likely one of the most honest (and fun to read) reviewers to come our way in decades.

 

[robm321]

My earlier post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 And please don't throw the "preference" or that I'm "sounding elitist" replies at me. Some things are just obvious.

Your response:

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak I think it's a little funny that some people are so hell bent on elitism that they can throw away the opinions of others.

So predictable…

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpak I have another top dynamic headed my way.

= HP-2s!

I’m interested in what you will think. Since the GS-1000 is a stranded ship bouncing around in the waves, the HP-2 might be more up your alley.

You say about the GS-1000:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpak However I would not use these headphones for classical because they are colored.

Yet. You say the Senn 650 with it’s overemphasized bass (colored) and rolled off treble (colored), and lack of realistic PRAT (colored) is one of the best ever for classical.

These seem like conflicting statements. Or is it that you just prefer one color over the other?

I think the Senn 650’s are terribly boring and more colored than the 600, and not engaging at all. But I wouldn’t ever say they are "dead in the water". They are just not for me and my tastes, but clearly have good technical merits.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Seriously...Benny Goodman on stage through RS-1's, can't be bettered by any phone I've tried (to my ears in my system ) same goes for many other performers, there is something just magical about RS-1's. Back in the late 90's there was a reviewer (Cory Greenburg I believe) who prefered the RS-1/RA-1 and RS-1/Melos over the Big O! In fact, he prefered it over the Omega II's as well. He even dropped his HP-2's (he had them along with the Melos) when the RS-1's came out. He loved them that much. It really goes to show that it really is all about taste and Cory Greenburg was not a "bought off" reviewer, he was likely one of the most honest (and fun to read) reviewers to come our way in decades.

I am almost 100% that ended up being my Melos..as I think that this headfier was the one I got my first one many years back...MAN what a blast from the past this name brings back(lurking days)

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Seriously...Benny Goodman on stage through RS-1's, can't be bettered by any phone I've tried (to my ears in my system ) same goes for many other performers, there is something just magical about RS-1's. Back in the late 90's there was a reviewer (Cory Greenburg I believe) who prefered the RS-1/RA-1 and RS-1/Melos over the Big O! In fact, he prefered it over the Omega II's as well. He even dropped his HP-2's (he had them along with the Melos) when the RS-1's came out. He loved them that much. It really goes to show that it really is all about taste and Cory Greenburg was not a "bought off" reviewer, he was likely one of the most honest (and fun to read) reviewers to come our way in decades.

I hear ya! I have this monkey off of my back now. By monkey I mean having to give the RS-1's up.

I can't say enough about the RA-1 not only for RS-1 but also the GS-1000. I heard it last night with the GS-1000 and actually preferred the sound quality to my SP PPX (even though I go back and forth).

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 Yet. You say the Senn 650 with it’s overemphasized bass (colored) and rolled off treble (colored), and lack of realistic PRAT (colored) is one of the best ever for classical. These seem like conflicting statements. Or is it that you just prefer one color over the other? I think the Senn 650’s are terribly boring and more colored than the 600, and not engaging at all. But I wouldn’t ever say they are "dead in the water". They are just not for me and my tastes, but clearly have good technical merits.

Everyones guessing the HP-2 (how can this be a mystery...when everyone...

)

Trust me I'm a huge non-fan of the HD650. Balanced they are quite different. I think with a good replacement cable in balanced mode they are pretty good for classical. The bass is controlled, but you'll never be able to bring out high end like any Grado can. These were much less "colored" to me than the GS-1000.

The HD580/HD600 is definitely more neutral compared to the HD650, it's a mistake on my part that I didn't include it.

Sorry about that elitism comment rob, just a little annoying when people blow off new users. It's really obvious in the IEM threads, I just try and avoid them now.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler I am almost 100% that ended up being my Melos..as I think that this headfier was the one I got my first one many years back...MAN what a blast from the past this name brings back(lurking days)

Not sure if he was a head-fier or not, but he wrote for Stereophile (the reviews I speak about were all in Stereophile, I have copies) and then he went on to another mag, and maybe an online one now.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio That's a bit much, don't you think? Dangerous?

I read it and I felt in danger of my life. I think that qualifies.