[rshdhead]

A audio store owener in Taiwan said something interesting. GS1000 sounds good or not is not an issue. People here are arguing about it are actually talking about the price. The problem is that SR60 at $60 with that sound quality is really threatening $1000 phone.

Then what about amp. and cable ? That performance/price is much worse. How many people can tell difference between pure silver and pure copper cables ? The distortion caused by amp(in analog domain) ckts are way severe than $50 vs $1000 cables.

 

[Blackmore]

Well, o.k. I was pushing a bit about the artist. This is like using a bad example, I guess.

I think the whole issue for me about GS1 is that I am just disappointed, thats all. And my second me telling me like: damn accept it, accept it, you have a very good phone, come on! But I still need to complain anyway. Actually I dont feel very bad or sad, whatever you can call this. Only kind of left behind feeling. Feeling that tells you: What about me!? Kind of egoisme, isnt...

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx On this side note, you and I couldn't disagree more on the "responsibility" of an artist to their public (and the lack in reverse) and playing the same music over and over again. Blackmore, I know that was just a toss off line, but isn't this just a bit of a sense of entitlement and certainly far from artistic exploration? As for the comparison to Grado Labs, remember the RS1s, etc. are still available. Nothing has been displaced. No one has been "pushed" to a new sound (Is this that entitlement thing again? We deserve a better RS1 before anything else?). Arguably though (maybe where you and I meet), if this is the epitome of sound in John Grado's mind, maybe he will consider rolling the signiture back into the other models.

 

[vapman]

so, back to the gs1000's. i listened to them for probably 30 seconds tops, because I put them on, started listening through a headroom home or max amp, i don't remember. they didn't sound $1000-worthy at all, but pretty quickly it felt like my ears were opening up (in a bad way) and started hurting and ringing very loud. I took off the headphones, waited a couple of seconds, and was fine again. One of my friends took a listen and the same thing happened to him.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckickflip so, back to the gs1000's. i listened to them for probably 30 seconds tops, because I put them on, started listening through a headroom home or max amp, i don't remember. they didn't sound $1000-worthy at all, but pretty quickly it felt like my ears were opening up (in a bad way) and started hurting and ringing very loud..

turn the volume down some..

yeah, I don't think 30 seconds is quite enough to form any worthy impressions or hughmungus cases of acute titinus

What was your source, I am quasi-curious to know..
thanks for sharing and keeping it on topic..

 

[Mercuttio]

You absolutely cannot crank the GS1000. It must be listened to at mid-low volume. The upper register will rip your ears to shreds.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio You absolutely cannot crank the GS1000. It must be listened to at mid-low volume. The upper register will rip your ears to shreds.

Not so at all. It depends on the setup.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio You absolutely cannot crank the GS1000. It must be listened to at mid-low volume. The upper register will rip your ears to shreds.

This high frequency spike is my biggest issue with the GS-1000s. I don't understand what the purpose of it is. I would like to know more about what John was thinking with the design.

I'm guessing the options would be:

1) the spike helps with the layering
2) John couldn't get around it
3) It helps to keep the GS-1000 musical and not boring and dark like the
Senn HD650

On acoustic music with natural harmonics, it's barely noticeable. On processed music, digital (PC) sources, harsh SS amps, the harmonics are unnaturally loud.

I always use a DB meter at the loudest part of each CD to make sure it stays below the threshold. Doing that I don't get a Sennheisser type of loudness at below 80dbs. But I don't feel like the volume has to be unusually low. I would agree with medium volume.

The RS-1 has the same issue as far as volume but sounds much lower when I keep things under 80dbs, probably becuase the bass isn't as strong leaving it thin sounding. Also, with the RS-1 the high frequencies actually sound more glaring to me than the GS-1000 even though the GS-1000 spike (assuming Headroom's graph is accurate) is at a higher db level.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Not so at all. It depends on the setup.

correct..I can listen to my rig at low, low-med, med, and med-high without experiencing the shredding upper register..and with matched levels.

In fact, the RS-1 was louder than the GS1 with my setup and using a SPL meter..by around 4-9DB pending the material.

Interesting that most headfiers that discarded their pair are posting to any thread on the GS now stating why they did as such. What's more interesting is to see the few supporters that also are posting to each thread on these phones and their use.

I do not think this is a bad thing, as it potentially provides for people writing on them that at least have a clue or some experience with them, so as to assist others' in their goals or qwest to concur digital, etc..

However these GS phones are more sensitive to the front end of a system than many of the phones avail today..and since the GS's sig is more dry and spacious than the other Grado offerings, and have a more balanced nature/presentation..people are quick to try just their main rig with the cans and are not planning or strategizing a rig around them..and sometimes without some proper current via amplification.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if people don't like the GS, and hope they continue to decrease in resale value so I can get another pair, or perhaps have Grado disco them maybe..
Then they will be worth 8million dollars soon...as they ARE the only Grado that sounds the way they do.
edit bad spelling

 

[GoRedwings19]

I think one of the reasons why the GS seem to appeal to you is they match nicely against your source. IIRC you have the ML 390s?

So the issues that some headfiers have with the GS doesn't appear in your setup. Or they simply just don't like it.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 I think one of the reasons why the GS seem to appeal to you is they match nicely against your source. IIRC you have the ML 390s? So the issues that some headfiers have with the GS doesn't appear in your setup. Or they simply just don't like it.

Definitely not liking something is fine, but blanketly stating something is X Y or Z without hearing it in every setup is a fault. I'm known for criticizing the R10's because in all the setups I have heard them, they have been rather thin and strident. Had this been only with my front-ends I could say...well, my sources suck for the R10's, but when this has been with a myriad of sources AND amps, many to be among the best going (in terms of amps) I was led to a conclusion. But! It seems MANY people run to Single Power amps to get the most out of the R10's and I have no doubt that with the right source and right amp, these very sensitive and transparent phones can shine. I've never heard a Single Power amp, let alone one paired with R10's, so in this way I can't blanketly state they necessarily exhibit X Y or Z all the time.

Why bring up the R10's? Their nature is very similar to the GS-1000's. There will be immediately WOW signatures that hit one in the face, but the true beauty of each phone is the subtleties they exhibit. In this way, Audiofiler is dead on claiming the GS-1000's are dryer than the RS-1's (and particularly dryer than PS-1's) and closer to the HP-1000 series in this regard. Their wider soundstage and excellent imaging can really knock one's socks off, but it is their sensitivity and transparency that makes them a picky phone. Because of this, they aren't going to be as "plug 'n play" as other Grados, even the RS-1's.

How many times have I read that the RS-1's are 15% better than the 60's (or rather, the SR-60's are 85% as good as the RS-1's..see Goodcans.com for an old ref on this ) or that the RS-1's don't necessarily need an amp because they are so easily driven.

Volume =! easily driven. That is, just because a phone gets loud doesn't mean the source/amp is driving it properly. Certainly folks have learned this with the RS-1's and it goes at least doubly so with GS-1000's. Grados need a lot of current, but not that much power. This is key to remember. In fact, I would say, HP-1000's require the most current of any phone made, and then it likely goes through the Grado line-up (electrostats excluded). Yet in terms of power, K-1000's require the most, then maybe Senns and so on. This new headphone is going to reveal flaws very quickly on par with R10's and Qualias I would suppose, to the effect that one is going to have to system match much more carefully than previously with other Grados. Now, some amps are just as good with the older Grados as the GS-1000 but the sources could be a problem.

This sucks for many, and I'm not going to spread FUD that GS-1000's only work with 5 figure sources, but they might not work that well with a mediocre soundcard to an average DAC to an okay amp etc., etc.

Of course, in the end, some may just hate them anyway, but at least hook them up to something that will really show them off. Audiofiler has done this, so have I as have others. They seem to be quite happy with them, as am I.

 

[iamdone]

My problem with the GS1000 besides the system problems I had, is I thought it would be an upgrade to the RS-1. This was the new official top of the line Grado headphone. I loved the RS-1 and thought the GS1000 would be better. Basically I thought it would be the RS-1 with soundstage.

At first, I thought it fullfilled my wishes. Over time, I realized the soundstage took away from the fun and enjoyment of the RS-1, especially on rock music. Something was missing from my music. The Grado magic was gone. There were only a few albums that didn't sound that great on the RS-1, but it seemed half my music wasn't working for me with the GS1000. Now with my PS-1, everything sounds great again.

So the GS1000 isn't a bad headphone, it's just if you love the RS-1 and are expecting it to be an upgrade, it's not. The GS1000 can be complimentary headphone but it doesn't replace the RS-1. The PS-1 may be the closest thing to an RS-1 upgrade, and at it current price and scarcity, most would be happy sticking with the RS-1.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone My problem with the GS1000 besides the system problems I had, is I thought it would be an upgrade to the RS-1. This was the new official top of the line Grado headphone. I loved the RS-1 and thought the GS1000 would be better. Basically I thought it would be the RS-1 with soundstage. At first, I thought it fullfilled my wishes. Over time, I realized the soundstage took away from the fun and enjoyment of the RS-1, especially on rock music. Something was missing from my music. The Grado magic was gone. There were only a few albums that didn't sound that great on the RS-1, but it seemed half my music wasn't working for me with the GS1000. Now with my PS-1, everything sounds great again. So the GS1000 isn't a bad headphone, it's just if you love the RS-1 and are expecting it to be an upgrade, it's not. The GS1000 can be complimentary headphone but it doesn't replace the RS-1. The PS-1 may be the closest thing to an RS-1 upgrade, and at it current price and scarcity, most would be happy sticking with the RS-1.

I agree with this post 100%! The RS-1's have offered a unique intimate experience from day 1 and for many the PS-1's were able to offer a better high-end, a more solid and palpable bottom end (closer to the HP-1000 experience) and at the same time giving a liquid smooth midrange to die for. The RS-1's are no less a phone than the GS-1000's they are different for sure and I would still say that the GS-1000's outdo the RS-1's in many categories, but when the music is playing, the bottom line is how does it make one feel, and to this end, the RS-1's are at least on par with the GS-1000's, if not surpassing them. For me, since I LOVE that onstage intimate sound, the RS-1's are still my go-to phone for jazz and female voice.

So many compared the HP-1000's to the RS-1's when teh HP-1000's were all the rage and for a time, the RS-1's were slammed hard. I, along with only a handful of folks who owned or had owned both, stood up for the RS-1's. The RS-1's are a true classic and the phone I chose to keep over the HP-1000's. RS-1's, to these ears, present the most realistic tone and timber of strings and woodwinds of any phone I've heard to date.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Zanth>I would have to respectfully disagree. As much as I enjoy the Rs-1's for many their unique tone if you will is very off putting. As it add this colouration to every type of music. So you really have to be one the Rs-1 sniper crews to enjoy it for all genre's. So given the GS tonal presentation which is closer to the hp-series than the rs's makes the gs to some a more all rounder.

Whereas the GS will appeal to those who previously found the grado's especially the rs's too polarising.

I think that many were expecting teh sound like a souped up hp-series, ps- series or more rs-1. Yet while it surpasses some of those in certain aspects of sound reproduction it also lacked in others.

I mean your setup is so very good so you had plenty of options to fine tune the sound to your requirements. But there are many on a lower budget which might not have that versatility. I mean you have two of the amps which get recommended as some of the best amps to drive grado's ever. Factor in the tubes at your disposal to refine it further. Though looking at your setup your system is built around the grado sound.

This would cover most certainly the Hp, ps- and rs series so there should be no suprises that it sings well with the gs series of headphones in your setup.

Looking at your setup synergy has been achieved. Hence why you may not hear the things that others have stated to have heard. And given they use different equipment then of course they may not achieve the same kind of results as the GS as you have. So you are right about the GS. But then again if you had a chance to hear other headfiers setup and then you might be able to hear what they hear. So in the end neither is right or wrong.

What is important is that you enjoy them. If you don't then move on and find something that does do it for you. It's all good in the end. As long as it get your rocks off what does it matter.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone The GS1000 can be complimentary headphone but it doesn't replace the RS-1. The PS-1 may be the closest thing to an RS-1 upgrade, and at it current price and scarcity, most would be happy sticking with the RS-1.

for some this may be true. For my audio goals, the GS is not only the replacement, it is the remedy.

There are certain passages in every genre of music that the RS..well...just does not image right. This is not debatable to others, as these are my own opinionated impressions from my brain and set of ears..so flame away if you may

It does not matter if it is with classical, techno, pop, or these phones' fortey-jazz or rock..the RS phones have a flaw to me that is very audible, and leads to loss of varying melodies laced as transients throughout certain passages, and can be heard easiest with bigger pieces like binaural jazz or symphony hall music.

I find that swapping out some components and mixing up the source helps this audiophile achieve the sound that I was addicted to for so long..ahem the RS-1/2..
Worked for me, not saying the same for others..

edit clarity

 

[Zanth]

I agree, mostly

Regarding the colouration of the RS-1's, the wood helps colour the decay, but it lends to a more realistic tone and timber of woodwinds and woodbodied stringed instruments. In this way, its colour is actually its greatest asset as other headphones lack a realistic presentation of these instruments. The midbass hump though present is certainly not as overbearing as the HD580/6x0 overly generous bass emphasis. To this end, just comparing these two phones one has to choose one colouration over another. Add in something like the Omega II's or the R10's and once again, one must settle on what colouration they want.

If one goes for an HP-1000 though, colourations are at a minimum. Some state the neutrality in itself is a colouration. I would disagree, and state that a lack of something does not equate to something. So if one uses the RS-1's with the anticipation it will be like the HP-1000's, then they will be let down. The same goes for GS-1000's. THough they are dryer and more tonally neutral than the RS-1's or PS-1's, they are still no where near as flat as an HP-1000, nor do they have that liquid midrange of the PS-1's nor the intimacy of the RS-1's. The GS-1000's though superior as you state in some ways, aren't everything to everybody and it is fair to state that they are the "unGrado" Grado. A Grado made for those that wanted to see what Grado could produce if they were not concentrating on that intimate onstage feeling. They did it, and for the diehards, some are feeling let down. Hey, that's not a horrible problem in itself overall, particularly if others are being introduced to a Grado, but at the end of the day, for those that wanted a bit more of X Y or Z out of their RS-1's, then yes, many of those aspects are found in the PS-1's, not the GS-1000's. Conversely RS-1's are still the champ in certain areas for me, so in my mind, as the joke goes, the holy trinity of Grados is the RS-1, PS-1, GS-1000.

Now about my system, no doubt I have worked for 5 years to tweak it so that it works as best with Grados as I can manage. And yes, my system is not cheap and it should not be expected that folks go out and drop loads on sources and amps or even spend the time tweaking. It is in my nature and when I locked onto the transducer I liked (or the overall sound) then I went on to get the most out of them with my ancillary gear. This is the exact same way someone like Nik would go about building around the R10's (Angstrom) or someone like Hirsch (Supra, SDS or whatehaveyou). To each his own and synergy will obviously win out over just brute forcing with big bucks, or of course, not spending much money at all.

In the end, though I truly feel system synergy is where it is at, whether one has spent 200 bucks or 200 000. That said, one can't very well expect highly transparent and/or sensitive gear to work well with some things that may have glaring faults or better put, attributes that don't mate well with the headphones. The GS-1000's fall into this category more than any other Grado before it (well maybe not more than HP-1000's) and this may have come as a big shock to Grado lovers and Grado owners. Because of this, the initial small time spent with the GS-1000's may have been in an improperly setup system. Or it may not have, and the person may just not like them. I don't dispute either because they are both likely to be very very true. What I do dispute however is that there is definitively a certain aspect to the phone itself as an absolute attribute, indicating that if one does not hear it they are 1) deaf 2) lying to themselves and others - i.e., bias or 3) have gear that is masking the attribute (in this case being rolled off).

As far as Grados go, I think one can't go wrong with an RS-1 and it is far easier to deal with than a GS-1000 when coming at it as a past Grado owner.