[cantsleep]

i guess this poll proves that GS-1000, indeed, isnt for everybody but certain group of people..

 

[ouchia]

super interesting, guys. and extremely confusing. there needs to be a grado meet to really lay the hammer down. for what i've read though, to be honest, seems to suggest that more people choose the rs-1 or ps-1 not having heard the full line. most of those who have truly heard the whole line choose the gs-1000. this is, of course, based on people who have commented. statistically, this is insignificant.

 

[braillediver]

One question to ask the people who prefer each headphone is:

“What are you looking for in a headphone?”

If you knew each person’s goal then his or her choice might make more sense.


“Do audiophiles REALLY want linear? Do they REALLY want what is on the recording and nothing else?”

Good question- I originally thought that’s what I was looking for- Hi-Fidelity = The faith reproduction of the recorded music. But with time I realized I just wanted involving, emotionally attached musical reproduction. It was a shock since I was using the HP2’s and found the PS-1’s more fun.


A question- Are there 5 or 10 specific questions that could be asked of someone in an effort to define their taste in music \ audio reproduction which could help correlate their preferences to their chosen headphone?

Then reverse engineer the questions to think of a list of 25 questions that could be correlated back to a specific headphones characteristics that could give recommendations for a headphone choice?


Mitch

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver One question to ask the people who prefer each headphone is: “What are you looking for in a headphone?” If you knew each person’s goal then his or her choice might make more sense. “Do audiophiles REALLY want linear? Do they REALLY want what is on the recording and nothing else?” Good question- I originally thought that’s what I was looking for- Hi-Fidelity = The faith reproduction of the recorded music. But with time I realized I just wanted involving, emotionally attached musical reproduction. It was a shock since I was using the HP2’s and found the PS-1’s more fun. A question- Are there 5 or 10 specific questions that could be asked of someone in an effort to define their taste in music \ audio reproduction which could help correlate their preferences to their chosen headphone? Then reverse engineer the questions to think of a list of 25 questions that could be correlated back to a specific headphones characteristics that could give recommendations for a headphone choice? Mitch

Great post Mitch..this should be a mini-sticky somewhere

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak Grados have never been my primary headphone.

I agree with what Zanth says..and J-Pak too...

Except that now, for the first time for me in over 5 years, a Grado HP is the #1 gun in my fleet.

What I find vexing about this poll is that there are maybe 3-5 people that have even heard or own the BDGS1000

Plus, there are many more RS-1 owners and even PS-1 owners out there right now...so did these results surprise anyone?

Not me, honestly I am shocked that the GS1000 received as many votes as it did

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantsleep i guess this poll proves that GS-1000, indeed, isnt for everybody but certain group of people..

I guess so.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellafella321 I really really don't get where all of this k1000 love is coming from...it was definitely one of the biggest dissapointments for me, having them hyped up as much as they were. As I mentioned earlier, the sounstaging is incredible, but after that it doesn't have much. :: Will wait to hear them on a better system. Hopefully that'll change my mind, but at that point I might be ready to jump on some l3000's

Isn't the L3000 in a different price league altogether? The K-1000 can be had for the same price as the GS-1000. But it needs a much more powerful amp.

I too would love to check out the L3000 if I could afford it

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-pak I think I'll be happy with the K1000 setup I build, I just really want the "anti-K1000" with lots of bass, and it's a little nuts that I'm willing to spend more than the K1000 to get it

Why not get the GS-1000 - it has lots of bass and a big soundstage?

I strive for a balance between accuracy and good sound. A live recording concert sounds pretty good to me (assuming the music is up to par), so if speakers or headphones reveals that, I'm a happy camper. Unfortunately, there isn't one headphone that will work for all recordings, even the K-1000 needs a side heaphone for the bad recordings and for my need for heavy bass.

 

[boodi]

The poll is not that worth as not-so-many have had / will have the chance to listen all pairs , foremost a pair of ps-1 that is nowadays nearly impossible to order or to buy ..
I own one though

 

[boodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 From what I'm reading the HP-1/2 has that same soundstage and has some sibilance

uocciatakinabou,willis ?

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ouchia super interesting, guys. and extremely confusing. there needs to be a grado meet to really lay the hammer down. for what i've read though, to be honest, seems to suggest that more people choose the rs-1 or ps-1 not having heard the full line. most of those who have truly heard the whole line choose the gs-1000. this is, of course, based on people who have commented. statistically, this is insignificant.

Is this true. Several of us heard the full line and did not choose the GS1000. I just don't think of the GS1000 as a replacement for the RS-1 or PS-1. They excel at rock and the GS1000 excels at the clasical and jazz. It almost seems as the statement series is intended for a different audience.

Many people who didn't like John Grado headphones before, like the GS1000. Many of the Grado fans are still keeping a RS-1 around to compliment the GS1000. I was hoping the GS1000 would be an improvement over the RS-1 but in the end, it's just a different type of headphone. I had some doubt when I sold it because it does some things so well but overall, I want a great upfront rock headphone.

I started a Bay Area Post in the meet thread, so then we can have a lot more people who get to hear the full highend lineup, including the HP-2.

 

[cantsleep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I was hoping the GS1000 would be an improvement over the RS-1 but in the end, it's just a different type of headphone. I had some doubt when I sold it because it does some things so well but overall, I want a great upfront rock headphone.

it seems to me that GS-1000 is capable of doing what RS-1 normally does.. well, at least to me, GS-1000 with bowl sounds like RS-1 with fullness in the sound; extended range both up and down..

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Is this true. Several of us heard the full line and did not choose the GS1000. I just don't think of the GS1000 as a replacement for the RS-1 or PS-1. They excel at rock and the GS1000 excels at the clasical and jazz. It almost seems as the statement series is intended for a different audience. Many people who didn't like John Grado headphones before, like the GS1000. Many of the Grado fans are still keeping a RS-1 around to compliment the GS1000. I was hoping the GS1000 would be an improvement over the RS-1 but in the end, it's just a different type of headphone. I had some doubt when I sold it because it does some things so well but overall, I want a great upfront rock headphone. I started a Bay Area Post in the meet thread, so then we can have a lot more people who get to hear the full highend lineup, including the HP-2.

I agree - I don't think most people that have heard all Grado's have chosen the GS-1000. I would be on the fense on whether to pick the PS-1 or the GS-1000, sometimes even the RS-1. Soundstage and image size make a big difference to me, so that might give the GS-1000 the edge, but for pure uephonic sound the PS-1 (heaven't heard the HP-2 yet) is better and with the RS-1 quickness. There will be no winner even if everyone came togehter. They are all good for what they do, so unfortunately for someone trying to figure it out, it will not be easy.

thanks for setting that thread up! If we have enough people maybe a hotel or somewhere we can all chip in for might be possible. Any classrooms at Berkeley we can use? humanflyz, yellafella321. Now we just need Audiofiler to fly up here so that we can try the BD GS-1000's.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 I Now we just need Audiofiler to fly up here so that we can try the BD GS-1000's.

I am looking forward to letting the dragons out soon too..hopefully the next meet in CA or AZ, if possible. They are quite hungry still

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler I am looking forward to letting the dragons out soon too..hopefully the next meet in CA or AZ, if possible. They are quite hungry still

We've been warned

Hide your wallets

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth This poll and those like it lead me to think upon something that I find curious time and time again... Do audiophiles REALLY want linear? Do they REALLY want what is o the recording and nothing else? I would say that overall, the answer is a big fat no! Perhaps many audiophiles are deluding themselves in thinking they really do and they work towards it when in reality they colour their system like those that openly admit to it. Perhaps others still, attempt to get as close to a live acoustic sound as possible, and then go from there. One thing is for sure, if everyone really wanted flat flat, HP-1000's, K1000's, apparently K701's and a whole whack of Headamp Gilmore V2's would be owned. To me, the GS1000's have a very truthful sound to them, particularly in the midrange. The PS-1's, of the top phones, are the least honest through the midrange, and the RS-1's for certain instruments get it more right, more often than either of the previous two mentioned. The HP-1000's though...overall, would be the flatest of the bunch easily, yet lacking a bit of life in the mids that would be a truer representation of a live performance yet is truer in relaying what the disc offers. However, myself like others I have read about, have sold off their HP-1000's in favour of keeping PS-1's. Not because the PS-1's are rarer, but because the PS-1's overall, sound better. Coloured or not, they just groove more, they bring life to the music. RS-1's it seems are winning many over even after these same folks have heard the GS-1k's, not because they are better per se in this or that, but because they actually LACK in areas, like soundstage, providing a very unique presentation as if one is a performer (which I happen to love). Small thread derail but something I think is pertinent to discuss not just here but elsewhere. Yet, becaus I own the phones listed, I figure I would post this now and we could further discuss why we happen to like something more than something else. Odds are, it's about what sounds good right!? Not what sounds right? Right?

I find it very interesting that even with the improved soundstage and depth of the gs1k that the poll still shows at the moment at least that the older Grado's are more popular given one of the many complaints abouts the Grado's is their lack of soundstaging width and depth compared realtively to most headphones.

So while the Gs1k's in this area improve in the technical aspect over the older then people are still choosing the older Grado stuff.

For me personally soundstaging width is not the end and be all of a headphone. In terms of the headphone which produces an expansive and deep soundstage then the R-10's does it arguably better than the GS1k. And even then that headphone never worked out for me. So a Grado with a relatively larger soundstage and depth thing going on for it would never work for me.

To be quite honest I was hoping the GS1k would be a Ps-1 or Rs-1 type of sound but with the current GS1k soundstaging abilities.

If I had never owned a Rs-1, Ps-1 and to a lesser extent the Hp-series I could be quite happy with the GS1k. It's just I find I don't like the core sound of the GS1K. I think one of the reasons for this I just find the other two more fuzzier and thus prefer them. I mean the Ps-1 with the nice highs and smooth fuzzy mids. And the Rs-1 with it unique sounding midrange although I find it a)the highs not as smooth as the Ps-1's and b)more genre limited than the ps-1's as I find the ps-1 a more of a all rounder than the Rs-1's.

The Hp-series have that special place as well. But that's for the days when I want a non fuzzy sound which is rare. Also I do love the snap and tautness in the bass region of the hp-series phones.

I don't know whether audiophilles want that kind of sound in terms of linear or whatever term they use. There are probably some who do. I would expect an equal amount like a different sound to that. Why else would they try stuff like conrad johnsons or on the other end of the scale pass labs or krell. Some have the ideolgy that they want as close to the recording some people prefer an added sound on top to get their rocks off.

I suppose in this regards it's no different to headphone listening. Some people prefer the Grado sound and then some prefer senns or akg's, sonys and all the other manufacturers.

And within this they prefer the different models. Some for example prefer the Rs, Ps, Hp or Gs series. If everybody like the same model and the same manufacturer things would get stale pretty quickly around these parts.

It's the diversity in sound signatures that are offered from these manufacturers that allows you to find a headphone which comes closest to suit tastes, preferences and budget constraints.

So there will be at least one headphone more often or not that will come close to what you like.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver A question- Are there 5 or 10 specific questions that could be asked of someone in an effort to define their taste in music \ audio reproduction which could help correlate their preferences to their chosen headphone? Then reverse engineer the questions to think of a list of 25 questions that could be correlated back to a specific headphones characteristics that could give recommendations for a headphone choice?

Great remarks Mitch. I think this could really help the general membership out not to mention any newbies. How many times have I read that the HP-1000's/Gilmore X design = boring? But it is the flatest most linear most faithful to the recording sound? The problem then lies not just in the fact that folks like a little colour with their music but that the recordings are not necessarily faithful in and of themselves, hence, if emotion has been stripped in the process, a system can bring some back into it! Of course, those that argue against my posits here, will receive a wonderful wakeup call in the midst of those that prefer vinyl or digital of any kind. Why? Emotion many say...perhaps then vinyl reproduction as a whole, is able to retain more emotion. This has been discussed ad nausium- harmonics, wave theory, distortion - but it is hard to argue that most of the top top folks own a vinyl rig and prefer it over their digital counterparts.

Some questions then could help everyone really understand what they are after. It's fine to want a refined headphone that happens to pump out mega bass. Biggie comes to mind. The PS-1's do this very well

That does not mean he doesn't have a good ear etc., yet it means he wants something specific and is willing to go after a system that can give him all that he wants.

Choice of music should be a question
Experience with recorded, live and acoustic live performances should be in there
Experience playing and performing could be in there

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler Plus, there are many more RS-1 owners and even PS-1 owners out there right now...so did these results surprise anyone?

There are more GS-1000 owners out there than PS-1 owners now. Perhaps as high as 2x closing in on 3x. But certainly there are far more RS-1 owners than HP-1000, PS-1 and GS-1k combined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boodi The poll is not that worth as not-so-many have had / will have the chance to listen all pairs , foremost a pair of ps-1 that is nowadays nearly impossible to order or to buy ..

All questions have some merit and this particular question has lots of merit. What if he has a source for PS-1's and wants to get a solid foundation before plunking down big bucks on a phone that is ridiculously pricey , perhaps as high as double now the asking price of a new GS-1k or up to 4x the cost of an RS-1? I think the question is worth discussing particularly since the PS-1's demand such a high price these days. If many who have heard all three fall back on the RS-1's, it satiate an appetite for those GS-1000 or the really pricey PS-1's. It might mean not eating Raman for 6 months, or not getting that tooth fixed, or whatever (I have no idea, just putting that out there, for all I know the OP could be a gazillionaire).

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 The Hp-series have that special place as well. But that's for the days when I want a non fuzzy sound which is rare. Also I do love the snap and tautness in the bass region of the hp-series phones.

Indeed. The bass of the HP-1000's I miss the most. I regret selling them to this day for this reason alone and in time I'll come to own another pair; however, in the end, I chose the PS-1's because they are fuzzier and that appealed to me more. Their smoothness and richness was very enticing and I simply loved the sound overall, not to mention wonderful highs. Yet...as you indicate, for those times a non-fuzzy sound is desired, none does it better than an HP-1000 for me.



There are certainly those that aim to get the most neutral sound as possible, but it seems to me that most don't even when they claim they do. They migrate away from very linear products and hope that their chosen products can still fall within the myth of "perfect audio playback" whatever that means. I suppose by perfect, the insinuation is that it is relaying exactly what is on the recording, since this is impossible to do 100% one must come to the conclusion at some point that colours will exist, it is fine to enjoy colouration and this does not mean that one is not an audiophile, music lover, or whatever label one wants to use. It also means that we collectively can have a far more enjoyable time discussing because we can all agree right away that no item will be full on neutral and by extension no system will be either. Thus, we can start discussing flavours of sound and by discerning based on a series of questions as Mitch has suggested, we can help more people obtain their preferred system/sound.

So in the case of this thread's poll, those that are prefering the GS-1000's over the others, it is not because they are leagues above the other two, but that they offer many aspects of sound reproduction that the others can't, and vice versa! For those fortunate enough to own multiple phones, they don't have to settle, for those that don't have this luxury, then figuring out exactly what one wants out of their system, the membership can truly help them pick out a great phone that should work well for them. This won't be perfect, as subjective impressions will creep in any suggestion, but overall, if one evaluates items objectively, a general concensus can be formulated at least partially and from there, the real fun in buying can begin.