[robm321]

Wow this is getting deep. Good points though.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth There are more GS-1000 owners out there than PS-1 owners now. Perhaps as high as 2x closing in on 3x. But certainly there are far more RS-1 owners than HP-1000, PS-1 and GS-1k combined.

I was talking about the BD GS 1000, Z..
'What I find vexing about this poll is that there are maybe 3-5 people that have even heard or own the BDGS1000 .Plus, there are many more RS-1 owners and even PS-1 owners out there right now...'

Where the number of folks having BD done to their GS1000s is FAR fewer than PS-1 holders or RS-1 owners....perhaps I was not clear in the way I posted, sorry!!

Although this may be correct for GS1000 stock, this was not my point. No bid deal, actually.

But as usual, great info and post either or Zanth

 

[Audiofiler]

Also think it is curious how close the results here are..especially considering how many RS-1s there are out there, PS-1s, and GS1000s.

These voting results may change drastically in the coming days, and it would not surprise if they did..but truthfully the results right now are intersting enough and closer than I would have bet on..

How interesting will this be to do the same poll in January of 2007

 

[GoRedwings19]

zanth>Well I find I have a sort of a love/hate thing going on with the hp-series. I mean I do like the technical ability of these phones from time to time. And when I am in the mood for it I can enjoy them pretty much as any other phone. But when I am not in the mood for them they kinda remind me of the DCS seperates.

Very technically astute but so dead. I mean I understand that some people don;t like any colouration of the music and their ideal is to get a close as possible.

But more often than not I will grab the Rs-1's first. I do think the Ps-1 is a very good headphone and from my point of view is an alternative to top tier headphones. Not everyone will do the r-10 or he90, l3k or omega 2 thing. For some it may be their end all and be all thing. For some it's not even a contender.

What I do find ironic is that when they were still available people complained about their price. And even used when they were going for like 850-1k bux used people were like hesitant to drop that much on a Grado.


Now that the Gs1k has arrived at a price point of 1k the Ps-1's have increased in value. People are less hesitant and they are willing to drop 1k on a GS1k and now there seems to be a trend for these people to seek out the Ps-1's and pay the increased price.

But these things happen in cycles (hopefully).

What I do like about the Ps-1's is the highs are just about right for me. And I percieve they are smooth at that level for my taste's. But for some reason I can;t explain why more often than not I will grab the Rs-1's over them for music listening. I am just so use to that headphone I suppose. Even though from a technical point the ps-1 does most things better than the Rs-1 and it is more genre friendly than the Rs-1

But it does seem the GS1k is coming off in a bad light in this thread but still even after all that's said and done and with all the Rs-1 and Ps-1 and hp-series gushing, the GS1K for some headfiers it will represent the best that Grado has to offer. As long as it makes you happy, it's all sweet

Audioflier>I am not suprised at these results. You know what these Rs-1 sniper crews are like they are almost as bad as the Ps-1 spec ops team. UGHH I have been playing way too much BF2

 

[Zanth]

Audiofiler: Yes I completely misunderstood. I thought you were refering to the stock GS-1k. I'm not a fan of silver wiring so I'm hesitant to try the BD's at all, but given the chance to compare/contrast stock GS-1000's with BDGS1k's, I would of course, just not willing to mod my own. That said, I doubt even if the cable were to miraculously elevate the GS-1000's to uncharted heights of gradeur, the fact would remain that the presentation would be distinct from the RS-1's with flats or even PS-1's with flats or bowls. Those that really want that intimate, on stage sound have to go with something other than GS-1000's. I've not read about a single person who digs the GS-1000's with flats (though I'm reading some reports that folks are testing with bowls and really like that).

The great thing about this forum and about the cost of headphones is that many people are willing to share their phones (mailing them out, swapping in town, meets etc) so that people have a greater exposure to stuff they otherwise would not be able to hear. As well, because headphones are usually cheaper than speakers, quite a few folks are able to buy a number of headphones, live with them for a bit and then sell off what they don't want. The used market on Head-fi is always booming.

Threads with polls like this one really do help someone gauge what the audience is generally thinking but before taking the plunge, it would be prudent for the OP or anyone taking these comments to heart, to go and look at what gear folks own, what music they listen to and perhaps a little research, looking through the users' other posts to correctly place the context of the comments.

 

[iamdone]

I made the leap to the PS-1 because of the GS1000. When I made up my mind to sell the GS1000 and go back to the RS-1, there just happen to be a few PS-1s available. With the sale of the GS1000, it wasn't a huge investment to get the PS-1. I also figured that if I didn't like them, I'd have no problem selling them for what I paid, if not more. At this point, I have no intention of selling them especially after doing a side-by-side listening test between the 3 headphones listed in the poll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 Now that the Gs1k has arrived at a price point of 1k the Ps-1's have increased in value. People are less hesitant and they are willing to drop 1k on a GS1k and now there seems to be a trend for these people to seek out the Ps-1's and pay the increased price.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I made the leap to the PS-1 because of the GS1000. When I made up my mind to sell the GS1000 and go back to the RS-1, there just happen to be a few PS-1s available. With the sale of the GS1000, it wasn't a huge investment to get the PS-1. I also figured that if I didn't like them, I'd have no problem selling them for what I paid, if not more. At this point, I have no intention of selling them especially after doing a side-by-side listening test between the 3 headphones listed in the poll.

Glad you found a Grado can that get your rocks off. What do you think of the hp-series?

 

[iamdone]

This is the point I've been trying to make in other threads. I just can't say it as well as Zanth. Depending on your music and your preference, a large soundstage is not always the best. The RS-1 and PS-1 connects me to the music in a way the GS1000 can't. Unless the black dragon somehow dramatically changes the soundstage, I'd still have an issue. And based on putting the super-bowls on the PS-1, it's the super-bowls that create the huge soundstage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Audiofiler: Yes I completely misunderstood. I thought you were refering to the stock GS-1k. I'm not a fan of silver wiring so I'm hesitant to try the BD's at all, but given the chance to compare/contrast stock GS-1000's with BDGS1k's, I would of course, just not willing to mod my own. That said, I doubt even if the cable were to miraculously elevate the GS-1000's to uncharted heights of gradeur, the fact would remain that the presentation would be distinct from the RS-1's with flats or even PS-1's with flats or bowls. Those that really want that intimate, on stage sound have to go with something other than GS-1000's. I've not read about a single person who digs the GS-1000's with flats (though I'm reading some reports that folks are testing with bowls and really like that).

 

[Zanth]

Audiofiler: I think looking at the numbers in 6 months to a year will be interesting for sure as more folks hear them at meets and/or buy the various phones and compare/contrast with what they know or own.

GoRedwings19: I agree with you on the technical astuteness of the HP series and like you, I tended to migrate to the RS-1's when I had both and/or the PS-1's when all three were here. For me, the HP-1000's seemed to be a WOW headphone for some tracks or discs and then a "yeah this is good and all but I want more" experience. What was that more? Debatable but in terms of tonal and timbral accuracy, I would say that the RS-1's would elicit a more true to life sound, where as the HP-1000's might give me a perfect look into the recording, the justice to real life was only accomplished via the RS-1's. By the same token, the highs of the PS-1's are really the best of the best for Grados. As you indicate, and I agree, they are the best for my tastes as well.

As for the pricing...well this seems to be the norm. Look at how expensive HP-1000's were when Vertigo-1 first introduced them over at Headwize! They ranged from 125-300 for a good while before folks started to buy them up (yes Vka that means you!

) and the price gradually rose to meet the new cost of the RS-1's and eventually surpassed the cost of new RS-1's settling for a year or two in the 650-800 range. It was not until the PS-1's hit the market that the HP-1000's went skyrocketting into the 1000+ range. Perhaps this was driven by the fellow over at MS who bought a pair and had them touched up by Joe Grado and paid a handsomely high price of 1400. Is this the most paid for a pair? Perhaps on these boards it is. Regardless, while the PS-1's were in production, folks moaned and complained that the PS-1's were inferior to the HP-1000's and how the price didn't justify the performance. The HP-1000's crept up to nearly match the cost of PS-1's new! Sitting for a long time in the 900-1100 range for beat up pairs or mint pairs with no lettering etc. But wait! PS-1's didn't see the continued demand they originally had in the very beginning of their run and Grado Labs discontinued them and releases the GS-1000's. Yikes!!! The price goes NUTS through the roof and HP-1000's are left in the dust. In fact, now...PS-1's are held for the most part, in a better light than HP-1000's. Most proclaim HP-1000's are built to a higher standard (which of course they are right to indicate so, because they are) but PS-1's seem to be favoured by most who have had the opportunity to hear or own both.

Hopefully the PS-1 and HP-1000 prices will drop to sane levels, but because the PS-1's are the most limited of any top tier phone, I would wager they'll stay high enough, at least as high as their original asking price.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 Glad you found a Grado can that get your rocks off. What do you think of the hp-series?

I haven't heard them yet. robm321 said I can give his a listen to when he gets them. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I passed on the oppritunity to trade for the HP-2. Based on threads and pm's from those that had listened to the PS-1 and HP-2, it seemed the PS-1 would be the best for my taste. Plus, if I'm completely happy with a headphone, why trade it or take the risk for something unknown.

I got the GS1000 knowing I could always return it and keep the RS-1. I actually ended up selling the RS-1 and keeping the GS1000 but that's because I didn't do any side-by-side testing. At the time, I thought that was a bad idea. I now regret it. It would have saved me a lot of time and trouble but then I wouldn't have ended up with the PS-1.

 

[GoRedwings19]

zanth>I am still waiting for the price of the Rs-1 to drop used. I could do with a backup pair.

I think the build quality is to die for on the Hp-series. I think today to make headphones with that kind of build is just not cost effective.

iamdone>I wonder how you will find the hp-series. Please let us know how you get on with them.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Audiofiler: Yes I completely misunderstood. I thought you were refering to the stock GS-1k. I'm not a fan of silver wiring so I'm hesitant to try the BD's at all, but given the chance to compare/contrast stock GS-1000's with BDGS1k's, I would of course, just not willing to mod my own. That said, I doubt even if the cable were to miraculously elevate the GS-1000's to uncharted heights of gradeur, the fact would remain that the presentation would be distinct from the RS-1's with flats or even PS-1's with flats or bowls.

Again Z, correct me if I am wrong, the BD cable is a copper type, not silver as you stated..the silver dragon is another option, but not one I would ever consider on the GS 1000.

I tried both the stock and GS1000 side by side. There is no comparison.. I just today sold off my last RS-1 (had 3)...to each his own I say. My preferences as an audiophile is reproducing most faithfully the original analog signal...and when I want my color --I will reach out for my SR-60 or MS-1...they seem to foot the same "intimate" bill that I was after or depressed when my hunch to sell off my RS-1s came up..

Regarding the BD cable, never have I claimed king kong from this monkey habitat on this..and always have I shared impressions based on actual findings and my own feedback with respect.

If the BD phones still did only what the stock pair and only a little better or with more "wow" --I would have sold them or returned them, period. As I too am not completely hip with the Stock GS...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth Audiofiler: I've not read about a single person who digs the GS-1000's with flats (though I'm reading some reports that folks are testing with bowls and really like that).

I agree, I don't like them either with flats at all.

Although -in my rig, the flats turn my GS1s into PS-1s, it sounds like...which is cool, but kills the SS bye-bye, and has all the band members playing on top of eachother again (lovely)..

As far as realism goes, ask yourself when listening to the RS/PS VS the GS... if you were actually front row and center, actually on stage or in the studio.. would all the sound migrate and be sensed in your nose/cheeks? The answer probably is no.. if you listen closely, your ears distinguish certain frequencies and tones as from different origins, and never will a band put all their amps, drums, and guitars in a straight line if front of you.. Nor would they all stand next to eachother and play in the same 2 yard square..

Technical engineers and sound people spread out the equipment across the stage for the desired effect..Listening to the GS seems to address the way a person hears music, and reproduces more faithfully its time and any peaks or emotion accordingly, with respect to instrument seperation.

I like LedZ and PinkF as much as the next guy/gal, but when their music starts to complicate, and progress in cords, the music in the RS/PS sounds like one big pile of sound... Well, this the case, it was more difficult for me to distinguish changes in the source and amp with respect to imaging and on passages where there is more headstage needed...again not a problem for most..and not debating this for my sake, just helping to explain what drives me to these phones..because surely there will be other ears similar to mine.

The BD cable does not mysteriously pay my bills or send pm's to people instantly gratifying its owner..actually the cable is quite a simple and necessary "tail", fitting for this beast type.

The addition of the BD cable to my ears provides the GS 1000 with a more effortless presentation, more information to the drivers and stereo image, more depth in the image, additional ppmph as well as increased articulation across all bands, and more balanced tonal FR..

No offense to anyone-cheers

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 But more often than not I will grab the Rs-1's first. I do think the Ps-1 is a very good headphone and from my point of view is an alternative to top tier headphones. Not everyone will do the r-10 or he90, l3k or omega 2, K-1000s thing. For some it may be their end all and be all thing. For some it's not even a contender. Now that the Gs1k has arrived at a price point of 1k the Ps-1's have increased in value. People are less hesitant and they are willing to drop 1k on a GS1k and now there seems to be a trend for these people to seek out the Ps-1's and pay the increased price.

When I started a thread about the GS-1000 vs PS-1, there was a PS-1 (w/cable upgrade) for $1,500 that's less than original price considering the cable was more than $100 - that was on Audiogon, there was 1 here I beleive iamdone snatched up and I think 1 on ebay (might be wrong) - all for around $1,400.

Since that thread where PS-1's got great reviews against GS-1000, I haven't seen a PS-1 and I got a few PM's about people wanting to sell all to get the PS-1 based on that thread. So, I agree with you, it's part of the hype cycle that maybe there is a better headphone that they don't own in the Grado line and they must have it. After awhile with no talk about the PS-1 they will pop up again. Because of the limited quantity it's a collector's attitude that gives it a high price and mistique. Not that the sound isn't lush and enjoyeable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 What I do like about the Ps-1's is the highs are just about right for me. And I percieve they are smooth at that level for my taste's. But for some reason I can;t explain why more often than not I will grab the Rs-1's over them for music listening. I am just so use to that headphone I suppose. Even though from a technical point the ps-1 does most things better than the Rs-1 and it is more genre friendly than the Rs-1 But it does seem the GS1k is coming off in a bad light in this thread but still even after all that's said and done and with all the Rs-1 and Ps-1 and hp-series gushing, the GS1K for some headfiers it will represent the best that Grado has to offer. As long as it makes you happy, it's all sweet

When comparing the RS-1, PS-1, and GS-1000 I prefered the RS-1 over the other 2 on more than one ocassion. It simply had the most energy and drive. The GS-1000 and PS-1 seemed different but equally competent at what they do. With a good all around system, the GS-1000 won't sound harsh or as sibilent. With a lesser system, the PS-1 will cover up sibilence and other harshness. That's something that potentail buyers should consider also.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone Plus, if I'm completely happy with a headphone, why trade it or take the risk for something unknown.

I'm not wealthy enough to just buy everything and then keep what I like and sell the rest off. Therefore, I'm stuck having to sell things to try new things. Not exactly a great thing if something is limited, like the HP-1000's and PS-1's. Thankfully, I have been blessed by the generosity of many members who have lent me their headphones for extended periods so I would not be placed in this situation all the time. When I heard the PS-1's, I knew I liked them from the second I put them on my head and I preferred them immediately to the HP-1's and 2's I had, overall, but not for everything. Still, I would use the RS-1's 50% of the time if not more. Strange how that worked. I guess I'm just so accustomed to the RS-1's and do it for me for my tastes most often.

If it ain't broke why fix it? This hobby lends greatly to upgrading, swapping in and out, always looking for something better. Reading rave reviews doesn't help this addiction and many have been known to buy and sell at an alarming rate (alarming to me anyway) and then buyers remorse sets in hard. "Why did I sell headphone X, amp Y, source Z?" Sometimes, when a system works, when it clicks, when it is providing one with what they were after, perhaps one can really be said to be done. Stick with it, for the long haul and invest in more music, the reason we are all here.

 

[Zanth]

Audiofiler: I stand corrected, I was under the impression that the BD was a silver cable. I'm opposed to silver in nearly every case I've tried it in my system. However, since it is copper, it may well be worth trying out. Very very interesting indeed.

As for your other comments, I find them very insightful regarding the placement of speakers and instruments etc. This is one of the main reasons I love the GS-1000's so much. They are incredible for their headstaging not to mention their soundstaging. They can image exceptionally well and it really brings one closer to listening to a live performance from within the audience. No doubt these are special headphones and I think that unlike any other previous Grado, this headphone deserves very top notch gear to be paired with it upstream, else what one hears from the transducer won't be up to par with what they are capable of accomplishing.

No doubt these claims are the same from those that use HE90's or R10's or Qualias and have commented time and time again that these phones can sound lackluster if not paired with equally fine gear. Some claim the same with phones like HD600's or 650's or even lesser Grados. I have heard quite a bit for extended lengths of time in my own system and I can't say that any phones save for the R10's and GS-1000's truly require the gear to be exceptional to even just approach the amazing qualities of the phones.

For the RS-1's, PS-1's and even the HP-1's (though very difficult to drive) they can sound great out of a portable player, a receiver and although they won't mask heinous component traits, they can do well enough, whereas the GS-1k's sounding decent out of say...an iPod, won't sound AMAZING, nor even in the same ballpark of goodness as the RS-1's or PS-1's out of the same lower end gear. This, from my experience over the last few months.

I'm not advocating buying $$$$$$ sources and amps just to use a headphone, but sometimes a piece of gear is so refined, so transparent that they really require some goodies upstream so that they don't spew out craptacular sound. Not trying to sound elitist, but perhaps this is why many have prefered the RS-1's or PS-1's to the GS-1k's, BD cable or not.