[pearljam5000]

it made me laugh

What is supposed to exist in between the notes but silence?[/QUOTE]

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif JaZZ, you can call it "dryness" as well. There is something like a bit too much dead silence between notes in HD800. I've auditioned the PS1000 in the last time which might have influence on the overall picture of the HD800 but IMO these Grados have perferct decay, each sound is like plazma, with living shape, intensity, articulation, opacity. All of that is so obvious and suggestive like on no other headphones I have tried so far. Maybe the K1000 are similar in this regard, while being still more transparent overall but it takes place in top notch rigs only.

Majkel, yes, I feel this too. My brain automatically translate this 'dead silence' being the music played on an open area, not in a room, because room has some decay, not too long to become echo, but enough to make me feel being in a jazz club or in an orchestra hall.

But apart from proper decay that I prefer, HD800 timbre and detail is unmatched by any headphone I've ever heard.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif just tried the gs1000 and the hd800 a/b with the dt880 pro. they both just sound like mud to me compared to the dt880 pro. the dt880 pro is just alive and sparkley with pulsating bass. not booming bass like the dt770/80. i will admit the hd800 holds up better than the gs1000. the gs1000 is just like there is a sock stuffed in the cup. as i mentioned i prefer the dt880 over the he90 and pretty much all other headphones. call me crazy. they are my ears. i would not liken this to "poor fool thinks his hyundai is a bentley". the dt880 pro were again, said to be the "best" by headroom. to that end the hd800 were said to be "the best in the world" by same. whatever that means. i guess i am set in my ways. it is weird that i dsicovered the dt 880 pro by accident looking for cheap headphones! i think i can safely say they are the closest experience to loudspeakers. sounds seem to extend feet beyond the cups. i have to check that the clock radio did not turn on while i am listening! yes, the hd800 are better than the gs1000. still not my taste though. it might be the music i listen to. on classical music the hd800 may destroy the dt880 pro. i don't know. music_man.

As much as I love my DT48, I doubt I would prefer them over the HE90.

 

[Geek]

Decay problems eh?

I have no problem with the HD800's blackness in between notes, that's normal in a dry hall... a recording in a wet hall sounds rich, but for example Glenn Gould's Goldberg is nice and dry with a coupla early reflections, just like the venue. Blackness is commonplace, especially on pop recordings made in dry studios. How are you going to make a bad pop recording with no room decay sound rich by buying incredibly accurate equipment?

Brick cathedral recordings of baroque violin are just amazing on the HD800s... if it's rich it'll be rich! Plus you get the DIMENSIONS of the room rendered better... you can tell one side of the hall has a bit more reverbation than the other, or that the musician was recorded with the mic placed at odd angles to the direction the audience should be facing. There is incredible decay and blackness accuracy.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull /img/forum/go_quote.gif Majkel, yes, I feel this too. My brain automatically translate this 'dead silence' being the music played on an open area, not in a room, because room has some decay, not too long to become echo, but enough to make me feel being in a jazz club or in an orchestra hall. But apart from proper decay that I prefer, HD800 timbre and detail is unmatched by any headphone I've ever heard.

That's a very good point. It was only recently when I upgraded my transport, yet again, that I could clearly hear the echo of notes in studio albums with the HD-800s. Previously this required at least a Stax O2/717 rig to hear with any clarity.

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jherbert /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would look for no decay at all in a headphone - this should be in the recorded music. Actually the fasted possible rise and decay is one of the major design goals for transducers of any kind. They should follow the signal fed to them, not live a life of their own.

Decay is much more related to the enclosure than the transducer. If recordings were made for headphones, no decay would be ideal. But, practically, that decay is needed to give the impression of a "large" soundstage when recordings are made for speakers (with some exceptions around this point).

 

[dallan]

For me when i started upgrading I thought at first that i was losing the fullness in the music and what i realized was that that is the noise floor dropping and the ability to hear the space between the notes.

I would say that 90-95% of my music is live recording and to say the HD800 is not good at reproducing live music made me gawk. I use it for almost all of my listening over the last few months.....and sounding flat, I must misunderstand that, not in soundstage.....they are incredibly three dimensional.

I can understand not liking a sound signature but some of the descriptions and criticisms actually sound like a different pair of headphones. I could understand saying that you like the fuller bass of a closed headphone or something, I mean I own a pair of DX1000s that I love dearly although they don't get much use lately.

 

[Geek]

dallan,

I couldn't agree more!

......

I can make my 800s sound flat, harsh, bassless, and unemotional but I have to downgrade to one of my poorer sources

 

[majkel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif it made me laugh What is supposed to exist in between the notes but silence?

I'm sorry for your sense of humor then.

Too much silence means the notes have too short decay, they end too quick so there is more silent moments in time and space. Hope it's clear enough now.
Actually I'd say that there is a kind of built-in expander in the HD800. Just see how they react to the volume pot. At low levels they are muffled and polite, louder notes jump out freely. This is consistent with decay behavior as it is the silent part of the sound which for me is overly attenuated by these headphones. Sustain and decay of live sounds have longer duration IMHO.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Ah, the blackness between notes is what makes the HD-800 special. That's a sign of excellen transient response. It might not be to everyone's taste, but it certainly reminds me of when I used to play in a community orchestra. Unless you're playing in an especially live room, you get that blackness between the notes. I haven't heard transient response this good outside of my electrostats, ribbons and AMTs. I think the HD-800 is sensational in this respect.

 

[majkel]

So it looks like we hear the same things but interprete them in a different way. I agree that free air orchestra performance might sound like on the HD800 but it's not the lack of room echo only. In outdoor conditions there is a considerably high noise floor which causes quieter sounds to disappear quicker due to masking effect. But there is no audiophile beloved black background which IMO never appears in reality. Sure a colored background is even worse, but what I find natural in headphones is sonic continuity and AFAIR it's preserved also in electrostats. Enough to say the OII MkI/SRM-007tII driven from a high-end vinyl setup was amongst the best headphone experiences I have ever heard, sure not worse than those involving the K1000 and the PS1000.

 

[AC1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is consistent with decay behavior as it is the silent part of the sound which for me is overly attenuated by these headphones. Sustain and decay of live sounds have longer duration IMHO.

This subject doesn't get talked about at all around here since it is one of the more intricate audiophile concepts that most people don't even pay attention to.

I call this harmonic decay versus even regular decay.

If you want a prime example of a sound that is lacking this decay it is the Ety er4's. They cut a lot of harmonic information out which makes instruments sound super focused where you can hear the layering very clearly due to very little decay information interfering with each other. This is why people consider them "detailed" but in reality it is losing detail.

This harmonic information is what also makes tube gear sound warmer, more lush, or a type of bloom (and I don't mean just mid-range emphasis usually associated with bloom). The HD800s is very focused in this regard so their harmonic window is shorter. I have a Black Dragoned GS1000 which is in contrast to that. Which one is "correct" is hard to say, but they are both enjoyable in their own way.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif [/B] I'm sorry for your sense of humor then. Too much silence means the notes have too short decay, they end too quick so there is more silent moments in time and space. Hope it's clear enough now. Actually I'd say that there is a kind of built-in expander in the HD800. Just see how they react to the volume pot. At low levels they are muffled and polite, louder notes jump out freely. This is consistent with decay behavior as it is the silent part of the sound which for me is overly attenuated by these headphones. Sustain and decay of live sounds have longer duration IMHO.

Do you mean the very subtle tail end of the note is being cut off by the HD800?
Could it be that the damping factor is actually too high? Like stopping the motion of the driver too quickly, just before the last little bit of the sound is actally finished?

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want a prime example of a sound that is lacking this decay it is the Ety er4's. They cut a lot of harmonic information out which makes instruments sound super focused where you can hear the layering very clearly due to very little decay information interfering with each other. This is why people consider them "detailed" but in reality it is losing detail.

They don't "cut out" harmonic information. In fact they add a lot of harmonics:

The reason they're called detailed is because they have a very short (compared to full size headphones) decay time, they're bright, and they have a lot of odd harmonics.

 

[suikodenii]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would say that 90-95% of my music is live recording and to say the HD800 is not good at reproducing live music made me gawk. I use it for almost all of my listening over the last few months.....and sounding flat, I must misunderstand that, not in soundstage.....they are incredibly three dimensional.

Agreed. To me the "issue" however seems to be that you are listening to actual live recordings. While some of the people in this thread seem to complain that the HD800 does not make their studio recordings sound more like the same music would sound live.
Unlike other headphones (particular e.g. the DX1000) that do seem to have the "virtue" of adding some sorts of reverb that may enhance that perception for studio recordings.