[majkel]

JaZZ, you can call it "dryness" as well. There is something like a bit too much dead silence between notes in HD800. I've auditioned the PS1000 in the last time which might have influence on the overall picture of the HD800 but IMO these Grados have perferct decay, each sound is like plazma, with living shape, intensity, articulation, opacity. All of that is so obvious and suggestive like on no other headphones I have tried so far. Maybe the K1000 are similar in this regard, while being still more transparent overall but it takes place in top notch rigs only.

 

[Geek]

HD800... unemotional?

 

[jherbert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...something like a bit too much dead silence between notes in HD800. ...but IMO these Grados have perferct decay...

I would look for no decay at all in a headphone - this should be in the recorded music. Actually the fasted possible rise and decay is one of the major design goals for transducers of any kind. They should follow the signal fed to them, not live a life of their own.

 

[Fafner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jherbert /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would look for no decay at all in a headphone - this should be in the recorded music. Actually the fasted possible rise and decay is one of the major design goals for transducers of any kind. They should follow the signal fed to them, not live a life of their own.

I fully agree. On well recorded material, the decay sounds just perfect to me. On crappy recordings, I can't and I don't expect my gear to add stuff the recording just doesn't has. Yesterday I was listening to Strauss's "Josephs Legende" conducted by Sinopoli (a very large scale work which was recorded very well imho) and Sibelius's 5th conducted by Vänskä (a recording well known for its extreme dynamic range), and it was so real like it sounded almost...real. The sense of air I could hear around the instruments (and after them) is something I never experienced with past gear. Worse recordings don't sound as good, but that's expected ofc.
I should add that I listen almost exclusively to classical, symphonic music...

 

[music_man]

just tried the gs1000 and the hd800 a/b with the dt880 pro. they both just sound like mud to me compared to the dt880 pro. the dt880 pro is just alive and sparkley with pulsating bass. not booming bass like the dt770/80. i will admit the hd800 holds up better than the gs1000. the gs1000 is just like there is a sock stuffed in the cup. as i mentioned i prefer the dt880 over the he90 and pretty much all other headphones. call me crazy. they are my ears.

i would not liken this to "poor fool thinks his hyundai is a bentley". the dt880 pro were again, said to be the "best" by headroom. to that end the hd800 were said to be "the best in the world" by same. whatever that means.

i guess i am set in my ways. it is weird that i dsicovered the dt 880 pro by accident looking for cheap headphones! i think i can safely say they are the closest experience to loudspeakers. sounds seem to extend feet beyond the cups. i have to check that the clock radio did not turn on while i am listening!

yes, the hd800 are better than the gs1000. still not my taste though. it might be the music i listen to. on classical music the hd800 may destroy the dt880 pro. i don't know.

music_man.

 

[jherbert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif the dt880 pro were again, said to be the "best" by headroom. to that end the hd800 were said to be "the best in the world" by same. whatever that means.

In Germany we call it Fortschritt. Let's see if the T1 suits you better.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...to me the real question would be, do music and instruments and human voices sound real via the HD800?

A short yes! I can't remember a more realistic reproduction from any other headphone. Still not perfect, though, but enjoyably similar to reality.


Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif JaZZ, you can call it "dryness" as well. There is something like a bit too much dead silence between notes in HD800. I've auditioned the PS1000 in the last time which might have influence on the overall picture of the HD800, but IMO these Grados have perferct decay, each sound is like plazma, with living shape, intensity, articulation, opacity. All of that is so obvious and suggestive like on no other headphones I have tried so far.

Note that I'm not criticizing your approach at all. I'm just offering my own. To me this «dryness» and «too much silence between the notes» exactly matches my sonic ideal, which I follow since my speaker-builder career. This for my primary goal was reducing early reflections on the speaker baffles by 1) reducing them to the absolute minimum necessary for mounting the drivers; and 2) rigorously lining them and the drivers' mounting plates with absorbing material (carpet + black velvet). The sonic result was as expected: remarkably dry, which enabled the spatial cues in the recordings to take effect (thanks to unsmeared first wavefronts) and conveyed a lot of the spatial depth. At the same time the sound was less «relaxed» and more accurate instead.

As to Grados: There was a time when I liked their sparkling characteristic (SR-80 comes to mind), but since my preference has shifted to a less «fun» presentation. As I see it the perforated metal screen above the membrane is responsible for this kind of «artificial reverberation». The same happens with the electrode grids of electrostats: the pleasing halo which they introduce to the sound makes it especially relaxing and free of sharp edges. (Decay spectra do away with the preconception of electrostatics having excellent transient response, BTW.)


Quote:

Originally Posted by jherbert /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would look for no decay at all in a headphone - this should be in the recorded music. Actually the fasted possible rise and decay is one of the major design goals for transducers of any kind. They should follow the signal fed to them, not live a life of their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafner /img/forum/go_quote.gif I fully agree. On well recorded material, the decay sounds just perfect to me. On crappy recordings, I can't and I don't expect my gear to add stuff the recording just doesn't has. Yesterday I was listening to Strauss's "Josephs Legende" conducted by Sinopoli (a very large scale work which was recorded very well imho) and Sibelius's 5th conducted by Vänskä (a recording well known for its extreme dynamic range), and it was so real like it sounded almost...real. The sense of air I could hear around the instruments (and after them) is something I never experienced with past gear. Worse recordings don't sound as good, but that's expected ofc. I should add that I listen almost exclusively to classical, symphonic music...

You both seem to share my sonic ideal. The relatively «dry» presentation actually is an old Sennheiser virtue, but now it's combined with outstanding detail resolution. Which makes it a bit difficult at times and to some.


Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif just tried the gs1000 and the hd800 a/b with the dt880 pro. they both just sound like mud to me compared to the dt880 pro. the dt880 pro is just alive and sparkley with pulsating bass. not booming bass like the dt770/80. i will admit the hd800 holds up better than the gs1000. the gs1000 is just like there is a sock stuffed in the cup. as i mentioned i prefer the dt880 over the he90 and pretty much all other headphones. call me crazy. they are my ears. i would not liken this to "poor fool thinks his hyundai is a bentley". the dt880 pro were again, said to be the "best" by headroom. to that end the hd800 were said to be "the best in the world" by same. whatever that means. i guess i am set in my ways. it is weird that i dsicovered the dt 880 pro by accident looking for cheap headphones! i think i can safely say they are the closest experience to loudspeakers. sounds seem to extend feet beyond the cups. i have to check that the clock radio did not turn on while i am listening! yes, the hd800 are better than the gs1000. still not my taste though. it might be the music i listen to. on classical music the hd800 may destroy the dt880 pro. i don't know.

Stick with what you like!

It's alright.
.

 

[mopps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've auditioned the PS1000 in the last time which might have influence on the overall picture of the HD800 but IMO these Grados have perferct decay, each sound is like plazma, with living shape, intensity, articulation, opacity. All of that is so obvious and suggestive like on no other headphones I have tried so far.

I could not have said this better myself. I love the PS 1000's vivid and forward playing with drive and relish. I have a lot of fun every time I listen, regardless of genres.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif (Decay spectra do away with the preconception of electrostatics having excellent transient response, BTW.)

What decay spectra? They actually have poor transient response? (compared to what?)

Does the HD800 have better transient response than all electrostats?

 

[pearljam5000]

thanks for the info jaZZ.
have you ever tried the K1000?would you say the HD800 are as realistic sounding as the K1000?

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif (Decay spectra do away with the preconception of electrostatics having excellent transient response, BTW.) .

[citation needed]

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent /img/forum/go_quote.gif What decay spectra? They actually have poor transient response? (compared to what?)

I can only provide decay spectra from speakers – courtesy of «Stereophile». I think electrostatics are really fast when it comes to the onset, but extremely slow in terms of decay.

Quote:

Does the HD800 have better transient response than all electrostats?

From what I hear, yes, I'm quite sure – but I can't prove it. I just compare it to my three electrostatic headphones (and the ones I have auditioned so far – SR 4070, SR 404, SR 007, HE 90, Sigma and Gamma Pro, Micro Seiki, Jecklin Float...).


Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif thanks for the info jaZZ. have you ever tried the K1000? would you say the HD800 are as realistic sounding as the K1000?

I think that's really a matter of individual perception. A friend of mine who owns both (a barely broken-in HD 800, though) thinks the K 1000 is better in this respect, while I rate the HD 800 higher in terms of authenticity and realism. But I couldn't compare them directly.
.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can only provide decay spectra from speakers - courtesy of <<Stereophile>>. I think electrostatics are really fast when it comes to the onset, but extremely slow in terms of decay. .

ESLs have substantially different design characteristics as compared to earspeakers, though. Not the least of which is the tension of the membrane relative to it's size.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif ESLs have substantially different design characteristics as compared to earspeakers, though. Not the least of which is the tension of the membrane relative to it's size.

Yet the sonic characteristic is the same. BTW, I don't see a fundamental difference. The transient speed of electrostatics was also notoriously attributed to speaker implementations. In reality both speaker and headphone implementations suffer from relatively soft attack and a rather esoteric treble.

(Don't get me wrong, I like electrostats!)
.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HD800 are unemotional. Live concerts are not.

That's because live music is music occuring, being made right in front of you. At best, headphones can produce sound from recordings. If a headphone is exciting and energetic, it's likely enhancing part of the frequency spectrum that obvious musical 'energy' lies in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is something like a bit too much dead silence between notes in HD800.

What is supposed to exist in between the notes but silence?