Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[rlw6534]

CD (RedBook) quality does not start at, it's fixed at 1411kbps, this is in uncompressed wav form.
Lossless compression such as FLAC typically compresses 1/3 of this bitrate or more depending on the material, giving 909/990kbps LDAC plenty of bandwidth to transmit it without any loss.
For the record, the highest quality MP3 is just 320kbps, and very few truly gifted people can (or claim they can) tell FLAC from 320 kbps MP3 on budget earbuds or TWS.

I totally agree that 909 LDAC should be lossless (but not bit perfect) for any practical music stream at 44.1 redbook. To me the larger issue is actually using 990/909 as it is difficult to maintain (and even verify) for some devices. I firmly believe that some who think they are using 990/909 are actually using 660/606 or adaptive, especially with TWS...

 

[clerkpalmer]

You better mean Clark and not me

CLERK!

 

[clerkpalmer]

The wild hair finally reared its ugly head -- Hifiman Svanar Wireless enroute. You people (you know who I'm talking about) better be right!

I'll betcha $20 over Venmo you will not be disappointed.

 

[Gilroypro]

Not sure what you mean, can you please clarify.
In majority except absolutely worst cases when lossless compression cannot yield desired bitrate, CD bitrate with lossless compression can fit into LDAC bandwidth. And LDAC is using combination of both lossy and lossless depending on source material and what compression it can achieve given available bandwidth.
I see you are using Tidal, ever thought of what MQA actually is, just another glorified and overhyped lossy compression, thanks heaven it's dead now.

My way of looking at CD quality is from compact cd. I don't like to think about the compression formats to save memory or make the file size smaller

 

[erockg]

I'll betcha $20 over Venmo you will not be disappointed.

Wow! That's quite the endorsement. I spent all my money on them so not sure I can match

 

[clerkpalmer]

Wow! That's quite the endorsement. I spent all my money on them so not sure I can match

I'll give you 2 to 1 odds

 

[clerkpalmer]

Looks like HIFIMAN sales on Amazon isn’t going all that great, only 13 reviews. We might see a meaningful drop in price for Black Friday

Quite the scientific analysis here.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I totally agree that 909 LDAC should be lossless (but not bit perfect) for any practical music stream at 44.1 redbook. To me the larger issue is actually using 990/909 as it is difficult to maintain (and even verify) for some devices. I firmly believe that some who think they are using 990/909 are actually using 660/606 or adaptive, especially with TWS...

True, not many are aware that most phones are maxing out Best Effort at 660kbps. You either need to dip into Developers setting every time you connect your earphones or use BT Codec changer that can set default params for LDAC or any other codec specific to device.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

My way of looking at CD quality is from compact cd. I don't like to think about the compression formats to save memory or make the file size smaller

You realize that lossless is lossless, you still have all the original data intact on decompression. Aptx Lossless uses one too, as well as lossy compression.

 

[rlw6534]

True, not many are aware that most phones are maxing out Best Effort at 660kbps. You either need to dip into Developers setting every time you connect your earphones or use BT Codec changer that can set default params for LDAC or any other codec specific to device.

Also, some devices (like some Sonys) don't seem to use the developer settings, regardless of LDAC setting (and the BT changer doesn't work). And other devices just switch back as soon as you leave the settings and never actually go to 990/909.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Also, some devices (like some Sonys) don't seem to use the developer settings, regardless of LDAC setting (and the BT changer doesn't work). And other devices just switch back as soon as you leave the settings and never actually go to 990/909.

For switching back from what I've read here that not all chipsets support it, thus you can have option but it wouldn't work.
For Sony, Codec Switcher seems to work for WH-1000XM4 (just tested it). But may be some other models are more finicky.

 

[rlw6534]

For switching back from what I've read here that not all chipsets support it, thus you can have option but it wouldn't work.
For Sony, Codec Switcher seems to work for WH-1000XM4 (just tested it). But may be some other models are more finicky.

The BT codec switcher does not work on my A306. You can install it, but it never actually changes anything. Sony's audio settings seem to overrule everything.

The chipset thing makes perfect sense for that behavior. I have noticed it on multiple devices.

 

[Gilroypro]

You realize that lossless is lossless, you still have all the original data intact on decompression. Aptx Lossless uses one too, as well as lossy compression.

That's why it is still considered lossy when compressing that lossless data. As it loses audio quality. Aptx Lossless is not true Lossless but it is the closest implementation to like CD quality lossless over Bluetooth.
Unless anyone else aside from me has tried Aptx Lossless, you will just have to take my experience with it as it is

 

[Gilroypro]

For SQ alone I'd probably consider HifiMan Svanar, the jury is sill on though if LDAC connectivity is stable with those. There are some mixed reports.
I can only vouch that it's rock stable with AZ80, even surprisingly so even at 990kbps.
DPP IMO is worth only if you have AptX lossless support on your phone, otherwise you will be limited to inferior to LDAC AptX adaptive. Also ergonomic and huge hockey pucks design might not work for everyone.

Well as I have seen here, the DPP gets more praise than the Svanar Wireless. I will give the Svanar as the top SQ TWS and if your looking for a "Audiophile Tuning". As I own both, I still give it to the DPP in terms of audio immersion and an unrivaled experience.

 

[subguy812]

You better mean Clark and not me

I got a feeling I know where that shot was fired