Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[hifi80sman]

Agreed. And they’d be junk in 2 years or less due to the batteries no longer holding a charge...

No to mention whatever technological improvements will be available by then, such as Bluetooth 6.0, wireless charging, 20 hour battery life, and who knows what else.

IMO, unless you’re Jeff Bezos or Warren Buffett, >$350 for TW:

Exactly. B&O always comes out of the gates with god-awful prices. $499 for H9i? $350 for basically the E8 (which is going for around $160-ish, I got it for $149) with a new case? Also, leather is overrated as a value-added material. If I can get a 100% leather wallet at Wally World for $8.99 RETAIL, leather and aluminium on headphones do not add that much cost, but for marketing, they add tremendous perceived value. BUT...

As we push forward, the typical consumer becomes more educated and savvy, so they will begin to see the inflated margins some companies charge on their products, especially when it comes to "premium materials". For example, look at 1More and FiiO, they have some nice stuff but at much lower prices than say a B&O. Yes, yes, there is "brand value", etc. but you're throwing that down the drain anyway, B&O, when you discount your products $100+ dollars off at a time because they are not selling at their artificially inflated prices. Obviously, $299 retail for the H4 doesn't pass the supply/demand test, so why not just retail at $199 for the "value line", but keep the price consistent with very minor and infrequent sales (like Bose). I bet they would have sold many more units by now and kept a better handle on brand value. Company must be run by Millennials.

 

[d3myz]

They only support AAC codec, at least on the product page. I would not recommend them based on that alone. For the price they should support higher quality codecs.



There is zero difference between Bluetooth 4 and 5 in terms of audio quality. Most of the differences between Bluetooth 4 and 5 are for the Low Power mode which is used by devices that only need to send small amounts of data. What's most important is not whether it's Bluetooth 4 or 5, it's which audio codecs are supported.

Bluetooth 4 and Bluetooth 5 Classic (the mode that is used for audio streaming) are essentially the same thing in terms of sound quality and Bluetooth 5 has backwards compatibility with older bluetooth protocols, so it's not a big deal, at all.

Let's not forget the 4x range you get from BT 5.0 and 2x data throughput capability. I personally won't buy anything that isn't BT 5.0 or newer, especially with the new qualcom chips that are coming to tws. 4.2 will be left in the dust soon and we will be seeing buds that have 6-10 hour battery life possibly as soon as 4th quarter of 2019

 

[actorlife]

Has anybody tried the updated Zolo Liberty? The ones with the 100hr case and 8hr playtime?

I'm looking for something cheap and reliable to use when I go on holiday and long playtime is a must. I have the MTW but its battery isn't great and the case is still prone to the discharge problem despite the new firmware. Any suggestions for long battery life and decent sound?

Try these good reviews and 8hr battery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1TNSM/ref=emc_b_5_mob_t
These ship in june, so might be worth it: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds#/

 

[hifi80sman]

Try these good reviews and 8hr battery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1TNSM/ref=emc_b_5_mob_t

Any good USB C Chi-Fi TWEs you've run across, other than the Anbes 329 (I already have that one)? You seem to be the thread "Hey, let's spend more money!" guy.

Elvis is still in the building.

 

[511634]

Will be testing this combo out very soon:
Bluetooth transmitter (aptX HD): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BQYYDNJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2YL8CPYSW42I7&psc=1
$90 CDN and 4.4/5 stars with 93 reviews.

Bluetooth receiver (aptX HD and LDAC): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07FVN14FH/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2M1T9YSBKVQUY&psc=1
$95 CDN and 4.5/5 stars with 18 reviews.

If we take DAP's out of this then no LDAC transmitters exist yet that I know of. I'm sure very soon that will change. The question is how many people would be able to notice the difference blind testing aptX HD vs LDAC. If you're like me using Spotify Premium @ 320 kbps, aptX HD is as good as it gets.

"Qualcomm created aptX HD specifically for high resolution audio sampled at 24-bit/48kHz in Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM) through its data stream that is capable of 576-kbps. Now, that’s a significant on-paper gain from either aptX or SBC."
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/bluetooth-audio-guide/page-2

"660kbps LDAC is a close match to aptX HD. LDAC 660kbps comes out ahead at most notes, but the latter manages to keep its very high-frequency noise floor lower. 990kbps does the best overall, but high notes up to 8kHz are unlikely to be perceptibly different at real-world listening volumes."
https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/

 

[actorlife]

Any good USB C Chi-Fi TWEs you've run across, other than the Anbes 329 (I already have that one)? You seem to be the thread "Hey, let's spend more money!" guy.

Elvis is still in the building.

Howdy hifi80,
Nothing comes close for fun sounding Anbes 359 yet. It's still my number 1 go to. The Funcl W1($25 idigogo) sound great, but no volume control. The Graphene ones are great too, but leans more to neutral which I also like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_tfk1CbMY1XBT7
The thing I like about those Anbes is the airyness, soundstage, bass, midrange is good and clear sparkly treble. I have 5 different pairs that sound good, but the anbes is the big step. These are the last pair I got about a month ago. I did post about them when I ordered them. I am impressed with them as well. I paid $30 during the lighting sale: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L9PJJX1/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_tfk1CbMY1XBT7 I'm still waiting to see if they put out a version 2 of Anbes with a 8-15hr battery. DLR rules. Eat em and smile is my favorite solo album by him.

 

[AtariPrime]

Try these good reviews and 8hr battery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KW1TNSM/ref=emc_b_5_mob_t
These ship in june, so might be worth it: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/base-the-first-long-lasting-true-wireless-earbuds#/

Personally, I am reluctant to buy either one of these. Largely for the same reason on both. Who? Who is Tranya? Is this a Chi-Fi company? At first glance they look to have some promise, but the fact that I have never heard of them has me nervous. And the moment I see indigogo...pass. Unproven, experimental, may not know what they are doing, and may be out of business in a week.

 

[actorlife]

Personally, I am reluctant to buy either one of these. Largely for the same reason on both. Who? Who is Tranya? Is this a Chi-Fi company? At first glance they look to have some promise, but the fact that I have never heard of them has me nervous. And the moment I see indigogo...pass. Unproven, experimental, may not know what they are doing, and may be out of business in a week.

Well with Amazon you could always return them. Another choice If you don't mind 6 hr battery then the Anbes 359 would be my choice and as you may have read many others here like them too. the $40 price tag on these are crazy cheap. Some have said they are better or equal to the Sennheiser TWS.

 

[Griffith]

It's not something I have looked into deeply, but there seems to be a connection between the new Qualcomm Chips and Bluetooth 5.0 improving the battery life and range of wireless earbuds.

Creative Outlier Air. Battery of up to 10 hours on single charge. Uses new Qualcomm QC302x. Bluetooth 5.0.

Mavin Air-X. Battery of around 8 hours on single charge. 100 ft. range. Uses Qualcomm QC3026. Bluetooth 5.0.

The battery life improvements seem to be directly tied to the new Qualcomm QC51xx and QC302x chips, as they were designed to improve battery life. Qualcomm claims the chips result in battery life increases of 50%+.

No idea all the reasons, but there are a lot of people talking about the new Qualcomm chips as esssential to increased battery life. And some claim that dropouts are eliminated by Bluetooth 5.0. Again, no idea of any of this is true, just passing on what others claim. Several reviews seem to make the same claims. Dropouts seem to be a thing of the past on newer models with the most up to date hardware.

Did you miss camberwell's post where he complains precisely about dropouts with his Creative Outlier Air IEMS? Bluetooth 5 is good, but it's not a silver bullet but every single time a new Bluetooth version comes out people will shout from the heavens "This is the one that will fix everything!" when it doesn't.

I have just been reading https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-air-truly-wireless-earphones-6001902-45.html and some people that had an early batch (like me I think) have reported that they have had theirs replaced and no longer have this issue, so I will contacting Creative to see what they say....

Edit: the dropouts happen whether I am using aptX or SBC so I'm not sure my issue is just related to BT 5.0?

The codec has nothing to do with dropouts. My guess is that it's an engineering flaw that they were able to fix or alleviate after the first batch of units. I hope you're able to get a good replacement unit.

 

[Griffith]

Yes, BT 5 specs lay the foundation for audio over LE. This is what the QCC5100 Series does.

https://www.howtogeek.com/343718/whats-different-in-bluetooth-5.0/

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...kthrough-low-power-bluetooth-audio-soc-series

Very cool, I wasn't aware of this being a thing, was this something that was introduce after Bluetooth 5's announcement?

 

[hifi80sman]

Very cool, I wasn't aware of this being a thing, was this something that was introduce after Bluetooth 5's announcement?

Not sure, but at least it creates a larger playground, but obviously, it's up to developers/manufactures to take full advantage of all potential features and benefits. All else being equal, I would take BT 5.0 over 4.2, but the mere mention of BT 5.0 when selling a product, leans more hypebeast over substance. Design, implementation, and quality wholesale execution is far more important than stats.

For example, my B&O E8 (BT 4.2) get better range with my iPhone Xs Max than some of my BT 5.0 Chi-Fi units. Again, apples to apples with the only difference being BT version, I'll take BT 5.0 all day, every day.

If I'm looking at more expensive gear, I would look for BT 5.0 to offset obsolescence.

 

[Chinslide]

I find the convenience of wireless is negated by battery life. Don't ever see that changing.
I've tried several models and I can never get over the fact that at some level the sound must be compressed to get where it's going. In the end, I've spent loads money acquiring a set up that plays music as pleasing as possible, only to move it to my ears via one more process.
Long way to go.

 

[511634]

I've tried several models and I can never get over the fact that at some level the sound must be compressed to get where it's going.

Are you able to tell the difference in blind testing, LDAC or aptX HD vs wired?

I think everyone has their preference of when wireless is a game changer. For any physical activity, going wired(edit: wireless) is end game for me, no going back. The freedom it gives being able to run or ride a bike for example is amazing. Most would think sitting at a desk wired would be the way to go. I'm about to test going wireless and if I don't notice a difference wired vs wireless, I don't think I'll go back to wired. I move around at my desk, I don't sit here for hours at a time. I have to get up, go to a printer, reach around my desk to get something, stand up, stretch my legs. Having to take my IEM's in and out especially to get good a good seal is annoying if you have to do it over and over.

Being mobile just casually listening to music for me and I'd assume for most, being wired is a no brainer. But again, everyone using wireless has their own needs.

 

[hifi80sman]

Are you able to tell the difference in blind testing, LDAC or aptX HD vs wired?

I think everyone has their preference of when wireless is a game changer. For any physical activity, going wired is end game, no going back for me. The freedom it gives being able to run or ride a bike for example is amazing. Most would think sitting at a desk wired would be the way to go. I'm about to test going wireless and if I don't notice a difference wired vs wireless, I don't think I'll go back to wired. I move around at my desk, I don't sit here for hours at a time. I have to get up, go to a printer, reach around my desk to get something, stand up, stretch my legs. Having to take my IEM's in and out especially to get good a good seal is annoying if you have to do it over and over.

Being mobile just casually listening to music for me and I'd assume for most, being wired is a no brainer. But again, everyone using wireless has their own needs.

100%. To each their own. If you love the desktop setup and cannot deal with anything else, that's your endgame. For most, I presume, if you're going to critical listen, you're not going to reach for the Anbes 359, you'll go for one of your high-end over ear cans. I've never been a black/white kinda cat, there are layers, so if I'm mobile or mobile in the home and I can at least enjoy my music, I'm set. As long as something can rise to the level of "good", I can roll. If I want to hear the lip smacks, I'm going wired and not going to be working out at that same time. There's a time and place.

For example, I prefer brunettes, but I ain't gonna tell that blonde to hit the road.

 

[actorlife]

Will be testing this combo out very soon:
Bluetooth transmitter (aptX HD): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BQYYDNJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2YL8CPYSW42I7&psc=1
$90 CDN and 4.4/5 stars with 93 reviews.

Bluetooth receiver (aptX HD and LDAC): https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07FVN14FH/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2M1T9YSBKVQUY&psc=1
$95 CDN and 4.5/5 stars with 18 reviews.

If we take DAP's out of this then no LDAC transmitters exist yet that I know of. I'm sure very soon that will change. The question is how many people would be able to notice the difference blind testing aptX HD vs LDAC. If you're like me using Spotify Premium @ 320 kbps, aptX HD is as good as it gets.

"Qualcomm created aptX HD specifically for high resolution audio sampled at 24-bit/48kHz in Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM) through its data stream that is capable of 576-kbps. Now, that’s a significant on-paper gain from either aptX or SBC."
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/bluetooth-audio-guide/page-2

"660kbps LDAC is a close match to aptX HD. LDAC 660kbps comes out ahead at most notes, but the latter manages to keep its very high-frequency noise floor lower. 990kbps does the best overall, but high notes up to 8kHz are unlikely to be perceptibly different at real-world listening volumes."
https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/

These will be dropping soon: https://www.google.com/amp/s/hifitr...dphones-with-apt-x-hd-and-ldac-bluetooth/amp/