[imagpie]

That is news to me also, I did read aptX Adaptive at 96k was about 600k as 420k was when it was launched at 24/48 but I was not sure if that was correct.

Going by warning on some devices (MTW3 etc) that when you enable 96k it may affect BT performance that would make sense and if a non-Snapdragon chipset it may matter more to go from 420k to 600k and then if a Snapdragon chipset it can hit 800k due to that new feature they have (fast steam/high bandwidth or whatever it is called).

Actually, a lot of Android phones use Snapdragon chipsets just older like mine (Snapdragon 835+).

I have Snapdragon Sound on my Motorola, but it's bawked. I can't even access 96k in the developer options, only through the Bluetooth Codec Changer. And it'll fail after a few minutes. I can get "lossless" 44k sometimes, but instead of silently scaling up and down as it's supposed to, it'll constantly switch between 44 and 48, cutting out and giving me the "Snapdragon Sound" logo.

I don't think Motorola know what they're doing with the Lossless implementation. Regular Adaptive worked fine before the Android 13 update. Until they fix it I'm using that Bluetooth Codec Changer app to just default to regular AptX, as that's pretty stable and still sounds great. And honestly, I'm finding it keeps a solid connection in spots where Adaptive would audibly drop down super-low. Stability over barely-noticeable quality improvements every time. Having said that, my brief ZenFone experience was a noticeable bump up in quality, but that may have been down to Dirac and me enjoying whatever that was doing.

 

[Vamp898]

Agreed, plus I don't like that they are trying to push passive isolation as a comparable solution to TWS with ANC. For this 2nd version they should have gone for ANC. The small update is just not appealing with all the other current market offerings.

Passive Isolation can be significantly stronger than ANC, given that its an sealed/close earphone (which automatically means all BA). Especially in the frequencies beyond 1kHz.

Most ANC shut off at around 2-5kHz because they would otherwise amplify outside noise while isolating earphone can still deliver 37db of isolation no matter the frequency, even at 15kHz and above.

Especially on subways or plains, that is an big difference as it filters any squeking noise or noise from fan and so on. With my isolating IEM i can listen to music on an airplane at Volume 001/120 on Low-Gain without issues.

But its not ANC, yes. There is no (semi) passthrough or anything. They are basically earplugs that play music. Also they only work properly with foam which is a deal breaker for many.

But yes, again, given that its an sealed earphone which the B&W are not. They are showing off the air vents like its an feature on their product page

How on earth is this supposed to provide any relevant isolation?

 

[helmutcheese]

I looked at a new phone from Moto or Asus, but none really seem worth it over my Moto Z2 Force, I like the 1440p 16:9 AMOLED screen and the Turbo battery Mod on the rear, now they are 21:9 and 1080p.

Mine does not have a mark on it (bumper case/screen protector and the Mod) but the battery is not the best now, but the Mod helps so 2x days use per charge instead of 4-5 days like before.

 

[james444]

But yes, again, given that its an sealed earphone which the B&W are not. They are showing off the air vents like its an feature on their product page



How on earth is this supposed to provide any relevant isolation?

Most IEMs with DD drivers need air vents for bass tuning, otherwise they'd sound over-damped and stuffy.

A rear vent is not that much of concern regarding isolation, since it's located behind the driver.
A front vent is more likely to compromise isolation. But on the plus side, it protects your ear drum from unhealthy overpressurization and reduces unwanted occlusion effects like amplified noise from your footsteps or chewing.

BA IEMs usually don't need vents, but I've had some that I could only use stationary, because occlusion effect while walking was so annoying.

 

[Juturna]

I don't see myself buying the new A&K's. The 1st gen just stopped working after lying in my desk drawer for a month or two without use, it won't even charge anymore.

 

[Gilroypro]

I have Snapdragon Sound on my Motorola, but it's bawked. I can't even access 96k in the developer options, only through the Bluetooth Codec Changer. And it'll fail after a few minutes. I can get "lossless" 44k sometimes, but instead of silently scaling up and down as it's supposed to, it'll constantly switch between 44 and 48, cutting out and giving me the "Snapdragon Sound" logo.

I don't think Motorola know what they're doing with the Lossless implementation. Regular Adaptive worked fine before the Android 13 update. Until they fix it I'm using that Bluetooth Codec Changer app to just default to regular AptX, as that's pretty stable and still sounds great. And honestly, I'm finding it keeps a solid connection in spots where Adaptive would audibly drop down super-low. Stability over barely-noticeable quality improvements every time. Having said that, my brief ZenFone experience was a noticeable bump up in quality, but that may have been down to Dirac and me enjoying whatever that was doing.

Do you own a Motorola 2023 phone? If so you can toggle it you prefer high res by finding Qualcomm Codec Preferences under Bluetooth. If you enable 24/96 you get just that when listening to something like Tidal or your own music with something like Flac. If you want only Aptx Lossless, turn off the feature

 

[imagpie]

Do you own a Motorola 2023 phone? If so you can toggle it you prefer high res by finding Qualcomm Codec Preferences under Bluetooth. If you enable 24/96 you get just that when listening to something like Tidal or your own music with something like Flac. If you want only Aptx Lossless, turn off the feature

I own an Edge 30 Ultra. The screenshots you're showing would be something like I'd be expecting from Aptx Lossless but this is all I get. The 44.1 option arrived with Android 13, but it feels like they just chucked it on with no integration.

Are you Edge+ 2023? I had a go on an Edge 40 Pro, which I thought was basically the same, but had the same experience.

 

[newworld666]

I am just giving a try to the Azla Sednaearfit Max for TWS on my WF-1000XM5 (I bought M-ML-L Pack).
They are not similar at all to Sony's stock ear tips, I would say is that :
-> as they are not at all deep insertion in the ear canal, they seem to be rather comfortable for hours
-> the silicon is quite different from Spinfit CP1025 but they are really not aggressive in the ear canal and a bit more firm with a good sealing..
-> maybe the little wax filter inside the tube can have some impact on the sound quality, it's difficult to say in such a short time.
-> I really like the quite large nozzle hole which is what I usually prefer over narrow nozzle hole, though I know Sony always chose rather narrow hole for their own tips, probably to increase artificially low freqs, but with larger nozzle, for me, low frequencies are better structured, less muddy even more natural in such full DSP environnement.

Till, now I almost never used Azla tips over Spinfit as they are usually a bit too "hard" and sticky in my ears... but this Max serie seems to be worth to be explored.

These last days, I really start to think that Sony as reached the max possible quality for modern TWS with :
-> a very solid sound quality for wireless transmission, mainly limited the by Bluetooth tech
-> an amazing ratio buds size/battery playing time at max bitrate available (909/990Kbps).. I have no idea if any other TWS on the market can approach such ratio with near to CD sound quality available (LDAC 909Kbps).
-> though, it could have been with a lower profile with a bit larger form factor, they are really comfortable daytime and not so bad for sleeping in the night too.
-> almost all expected modern user functions (ANS, Calls, DSP, EQ, ...) are available, though they could have allow the user to chose the tap/double tap & triple tap assignments
-> it's probably, among the most decent ANC with limited impacts on the sound quality for music (but there are still some), but with the Azla sednaearfit Max, ANC has almost no real life effect.. I would say passive ear tips NC is really sufficient assuming we are not in public transportation (planes/trains/tubes/cars).

 

[helmutcheese]

I prefer the Crystals (the Xelastec are the sticky ones) over the MAX but want to try the new MAX ASMR but they are not on Amazon UK yet.

Only the Original model (black) is a bit too hard, the Original Light (white are not so hard).

Spinfits are not the best for ANC buds, too thin.

 

[GrandNagus50]

I have these and I like to use them with the bass boost feature (I am a basshead, what can I say?) The one thing about them that I find difficult is that in my experience, they are not sweatproof, at all. I mostly use wireless IEM's at the gym. I do not sweat all that much, and I have had no trouble in this respect with my Sony, AKG, or Jabra iems. But with the Sennheiser set I quickly get some moisture in the earbuds that forces me to put them away, lest they clog up completely. I actually think that the (discontinued?) AKG N400 set is a good one; the only criticism that people seem to make is that the left and right buds are reversed in the case. Unless you are terminally dislectic, that is a nonissue as far as I can tell.

​

Ok, I was wrong in a way about the Sennheiser true wireless momentum 3 not being sweatproof, but the truth regarding my own set is kind of worse. The squishiness/crackliness I experienced in the right earbud was not because of sweat, but because that transducer was in the process of failing. A few days later it's just awful, crackling and breaking up at all but the lowest volume levels. I think I got a bad copy. I bought these from Amazon (on sale), and (unfortunately) it is two days past the 30 day return window. I called Amazon and the customer service agent tried to contact Sennheiser, but nobody picked up (Sennheiser USA does not have good customer service; I know this from my attempts to get a repair on my IE 800s). So Amazon extended the return window and is allowing me to return the iems for a refund. Not sure whether I will buy another set of the same item.

 

[helmutcheese]

I send things back to Amazon UK within the first year if they break as they are responsible for the first year of the manufactures warranty.

 

[erockg]

I find it hard to believe the A&K can be that good but I also never doubt @erockg . Is it "good for a BA" or is it just fantastic full stop?

To each his own, but it's been a beat. Returned them in May of 2022. Tried to buy them back, but they discontinued them rather early in the lifecycle because of issues with getting parts (so I read). I remember them being powerful with great sound/soundstage. Not just good for a BA. They were very engaging. ANC wasn't sorely missed, but I do usually prefer buds with ANC unless they're IEMs. I'm sure I did a compare and contrast at the time and decided they weren't worth the price at the time. Always has returners remorse (just coined that). The case was large, but it looks like they trimmed it down. Did have to find a good pair of tips that worked for fit. Hopefully they upgrade the app before launch. It was basic and mediocre.

 

[Vamp898]

Most IEMs with DD drivers need air vents for bass tuning, otherwise they'd sound over-damped and stuffy.

A rear vent is not that much of concern regarding isolation, since it's located behind the driver.
A front vent is more likely to compromise isolation. But on the plus side, it protects your ear drum from unhealthy overpressurization and reduces unwanted occlusion effects like amplified noise from your footsteps or chewing.

BA IEMs usually don't need vents, but I've had some that I could only use stationary, because occlusion effect while walking was so annoying.

Isolating IEMs were invented and made for artists that perform on stage. So people who play instruments, sing and scream, run and jump and lots of other stuff. So what you experienced should absolutely not happen, that would render them unusable as a work tool.

I had this in the very beginning when i was lacking experience and tried to use them with silicone, but as soon as i found out that they are unuseable with silicone and have to be used with foam, i never had issues with any sealed IEM.

At least i never heard of or seen any artist use them with silicone tips. Every artist i ever spoke to and or have seen live used them with foam (except for those who use custom, obviously, they don't need any eartips).

There are some very very rare foam that can cause this because they have like an silicone layer around the foam, but just average foam like MIS or INAIRS should work perfectly.

Of course there is always the option to get the recommendation from the Maker.

Shure recommends Comply, Westone and 64 Audio develops their own, Sony recommends nothing but says in the developer interview that they are unuseable with silicone which is hilarious, Campfire recommends their Marshmallow tips (well they don't really recommend it, they say "This is our favorite tip to use with our earphones."... whatever that means).

So with foam, sealed IEM can do pressure compensation and so you should not experience any of the above mentioned effects.

 

[stacey]

I find it hard to believe the A&K can be that good but I also never doubt @erockg . Is it "good for a BA" or is it just fantastic full stop?

They were pretty good overall for a TWS. I sold them a while ago, mostly because of somewhat mediocre call quality . They have the best passive noise isolation out of all the TWS I’ve ever tried. It sounds like they changed a few things to address the call issues so I’d try them again.

And for some of you guys out there ‘old chipset’ doesn’t mean that it won’t sound good.

 

[james444]

Isolating IEMs were invented and made for artists that perform on stage. So people who play instruments, sing and scream, run and jump and lots of other stuff. So what you experienced should absolutely not happen, that would render them unusable as a work tool.

I had this in the very beginning when i was lacking experience and tried to use them with silicone, but as soon as i found out that they are unuseable with silicone and have to be used with foam, i never had issues with any sealed IEM.

At least i never heard of or seen any artist use them with silicone tips. Every artist i ever spoke to and or have seen live used them with foam (except for those who use custom, obviously, they don't need any eartips).

There are some very very rare foam that can cause this because they have like an silicone layer around the foam, but just average foam like MIS or INAIRS should work perfectly.

Of course there is always the option to get the recommendation from the Maker.

Shure recommends Comply, Westone and 64 Audio develops their own, Sony recommends nothing but says in the developer interview that they are unuseable with silicone which is hilarious, Campfire recommends their Marshmallow tips (well they don't really recommend it, they say "This is our favorite tip to use with our earphones."... whatever that means).

So with foam, sealed IEM can do pressure compensation and so you should not experience any of the above mentioned effects.

You're partly right in that foam tips can help to ameliorate the occlusion effect. But it doesn't completely disappear, due to how the physics behind it works. Low frequency parts of your body noises (footsteps, chewing, talking, etc.) are being transmitted to the ear canal via bone conduction (just like the bass of your stereo speakers is being transmitted to your neighbor's flat via floor and walls). And if you wear IEMs with a full seal, these frequencies have nowhere to escape and may even resonate inside that closed, hollow tube that is your ear canal. There are only two ways to mitigate this: one is the foam tips you mentioned, which dampen the bone conduction, and the other one is a deep fit, which makes the resonant volume of your closed canal smaller. Needless to say, foam tips *and* a deep fit is the best combination to attenuate the occlusion effect as much as possible.

As for stage artists, most of them use neither silicone nor foam tips, but custom IEMs. And with the latter, it depends on whether they're made of hard acrylic (= pronounced occlusion effect) or silicone (= less occlusion effect). Some custom IEMs are also done from very deep ear impressions to make them deep-fitting. And some are made with a so-called ambient port, which is basically a small front vent. But stage artists sure know about occlusion, and ever so often you can witness someone pulling their IEM partially out of the ear canal during the performance to alleviate the effect.