Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[dweaver]

To be honest, I would not spend the money on the XM4s if you are happy with the AZ60s and they are comfortable for you. I have both and don't see the real value in snagging the Sony's on top of the AZs. I do like both a lot, but can't say that you will be doing cartwheels if you were to purchase the Sony's on top of what you have. In my opinion, it's an either or scenario with those two and not both (unless you have a collection like @erockg)

Thanks @BooleanBones I agree . I have to be honest. My only reason to try the XM4 or MTW2 is to see if they really are "better" as so many reviewers continue to claim. I honestly suspect they are not "better" just different and depending on your preference will be better or worse...

I have only owned one IEM that managed tight hard booming bass, large sound stage and 3D imaging all in one product and that was the XBA-Z5 using the balanced cable on my Pono Player. It was not a balanced signature, but it was amazing. But that's also a $700 IEM with an expensive (at the time) specialized HIFI player using the balanced cable to achieve the magic.

I have owned 2 different hybrid TWS, and several high end dynamic drivers models and none of them have captured that type of technical ability and at the state of TWS technology today's I don't think any manufacturer can. So then you have to pick you poison. Do you want a large sound stage (AZ60) then you give up a harder hitting bass. Do you want a richer sound (MTW2) then give up a bigger sub-bass sound. Do you want hard hitting tight bass (WF-1000XM4) then give up the big sound stage and upper treble sparkle.

That's my suspicion anyway as I have not been able to try the MTW2 or WF-1000XM4.

 

[Aramaki]

Has anyone tried the WF-C500? Curious how they sound. Reviews suggest they are a brighter signature so might be an interesting no frills TWS if you like Sony sound.

Very good sound for the price.

 

[xSDMx]

Thanks @BooleanBones I agree . I have to be honest. My only reason to try the XM4 or MTW2 is to see if they really are "better" as so many reviewers continue to claim. I honestly suspect they are not "better" just different and depending on your preference will be better or worse...

I have only owned one IEM that managed tight hard booming bass, large sound stage and 3D imaging all in one product and that was the XBA-Z5 using the balanced cable on my Pono Player. It was not a balanced signature, but it was amazing. But that's also a $700 IEM with an expensive (at the time) specialized HIFI player using the balanced cable to achieve the magic.

I have owned 2 different hybrid TWS, and several high end dynamic drivers models and none of them have captured that type of technical ability and at the state of TWS technology today's I don't think any manufacturer can. So then you have to pick you poison. Do you want a large sound stage (AZ60) then you give up a harder hitting bass. Do you want a richer sound (MTW2) then give up a bigger sub-bass sound. Do you want hard hitting tight bass (WF-1000XM4) then give up the big sound stage and upper treble sparkle.

That's my suspicion anyway as I have not been able to try the MTW2 or WF-1000XM4.

I miss my XBA-H3 and I miss my XBA-Z5. Why did I ever sell them...

 

[dweaver]

I miss my XBA-H3 and I miss my XBA-Z5. Why did I ever sell them...

I made the mistake of swapping the cable on my XBA-Z5 causing the right bud to not connect. I tried to fix them and accidentally broke the connector. The most heart breaking and angry moment of my headphone hobby. I now have @ $700 pile of garbage... I have refused to buy an expensive MMCX based IEM since.

 

[DigDub]

I'm so tempted just for this transmitter feature alone

Yea it's useful. My PC doesn't have bluetooth and using the case as a transmitter enables wireless high quality listening. Do note that the mic doesn't work in transmitter mode though, the computer detects it as stereo earphones without mic. So you can use the device's built-in mic or plug in a wired mic if you need it for video conferencing.

 

[Caipirina]

Damn you Forum! You made me buy another one!

 

[guitarizt]

These are non sealing earbuds and are completely open to the environment. So basically 'always on' ambient mode, as well as being natural sounding vs piped in sound.

Sound is not going to be the same. Sound signature may be similar. That reddit review may have referred to buds, buds+ & buds pro but not the buds live. I've had the buds+ and still have the Live, they sound way different.

If you like earbuds vs iems, you'll probably like these.

Thanks, I think you're right. My memory is prob off. I never knew the lives were so open to the environment, and I've spent too much time researching lately. Headfi is awesome!

 

[dweaver]

Damn you Forum! You made me buy another one!

How do they sound? I have only tried the ATH CKR7TW which were not great being one of the first attempts at TWS by Audio Technica so returned the pair I bought.

 

[erockg]

So, @Ceeluh7 & @jant71 ... got the Autumn IEMs here. Mind you, I listen to mostly hard rock. Going back and forth with the Thieaudio L4. Both pretty pretty pretty good. L4 definitely have a better bass slam. Tight. Definitely more mids based. Autumn is warmer. Still messing with the filters. Have the bass one in now. As a result, bass is bigger/wider on the Autumn due to that 13mm dd, opposed to the 7mm on the L4. I feel it vibrate more with the Autumn. L4 is tight with punch, more of a snap. Instrument separation is better on the L4 because of those 3BAs. I'd say the L4 have a nicer sub-bass. Autumn are not bad, just different. The L4s fit me very well. They're like custom IEMs. I'd say the soundstage width is comparable to one another. Vocals on the Autumn are not up front like the L4. The Autumn IEMs seem to need more volume than the L4 with the Fiio adapters. Both are really great. With the normal filter, the Autumn gets closer to the L4. I still prefer the bass filter. The Autumn has sound bleed.

All the above said, I've probably done some great burn-in on the L4s because when I first got them, I didn't love them like I do now. These Autumn may need some burn-in.

I can't help but think the L4s better for what I primarily listen to. I'm no pro audiophile but the 3 balanced armatures matched with 1 dd on the L4 really adds to the instrument separation and you can definitely tell.

Those are some quick random thoughts. I'll be comparing and contrasting for few days.

 

[Ceeluh7]

So, @Ceeluh7 & @jant71 ... got the Autumn IEMs here. Mind you, I listen to mostly hard rock. Going back and forth with the Thieaudio L4. Both pretty pretty pretty good. L4 definitely have a better bass slam. Tight. Definitely more mids based. Autumn is warmer. Still messing with the filters. Have the bass one in now. As a result, bass is bigger/wider on the Autumn due to that 13mm dd, opposed to the 7mm on the L4. I feel it vibrate more with the Autumn. L4 is tight with punch, more of a snap. Instrument separation is better on the L4 because of those 3BAs. I'd say the L4 have a nicer sub-bass. Autumn are not bad, just different. The L4s fit me very well. They're like custom IEMs. I'd say the soundstage width is comparable to one another. Vocals on the Autumn are not up front like the L4. The Autumn IEMs seem to need more volume than the L4 with the Fiio adapters. Both are really great. With the normal filter, the Autumn gets closer to the L4. I still prefer the bass filter. The Autumn has sound bleed.

All the above said, I've probably done some great burn-in on the L4s because when I first got them, I didn't love them like I do now. These Autumn may need some burn-in.

I can't help but think the L4s better for what I primarily listen to. I'm no pro audiophile but the 3 balanced armatures matched with 1 dd on the L4 really adds to the instrument separation and you can definitely tell.

Those are some quick random thoughts. I'll be comparing and contrasting for few days.

The Autumn most Def need some good clean amping. I think they are 46 ohms. I did read they were slightly bass shy, actually not shy but just tighter, basically when a track calls for it. You are like me... I need bass, but good bass. This is the only thing which is holding me back. I saw BGGAR's video and he needed the Bass filter and I assume I would as well. I read also that technically they are proficient. Decent extension up top as well. I don't know how accurate this is but one reviewer said that the Autumn could be a treble heads fav with the treble filter.... I am not a treble head. I greatly appreciate your thoughts man. They are still on my shortlist for sure

 

[Ceeluh7]

I just picked up the Fokus Pros (open box) from Audio46 for $296. https://audio46.com/products/noble-audio-fokus-pro-true-wireless-iems

Whoa.... Nice job man. Glad you got them so cheap, well cheap compared to the normal $349. I haven't heard them but these look like the best SQ out there for TWS at the moment... Sweet man, enjoy

 

[Caipirina]

How do they sound? I have only tried the ATH CKR7TW which were not great being one of the first attempts at TWS by Audio Technica so returned the pair I bought.

Too early to tell, but very first impression is like 'that's what they call Solid Bass?' even with Bass Boost on in EQ
.. i had a bit more of a wow factor when I plugged in the Fiil T2 Pro ...

But more annoying (still needing a few extra hours for a long term test): even in this short time I have been playing around with them I get the impression that the right bud leaks battery FAST ... Let's hope this is a fluke, I am charging them full now and when I have the time I will play for a few hours and watch the gauges like a hawk (and screen print it)

 

[erockg]

The Autumn most Def need some good clean amping. I think they are 46 ohms. I did read they were slightly bass shy, actually not shy but just tighter, basically when a track calls for it. You are like me... I need bass, but good bass. This is the only thing which is holding me back. I saw BGGAR's video and he needed the Bass filter and I assume I would as well. I read also that technically they are proficient. Decent extension up top as well. I don't know how accurate this is but one reviewer said that the Autumn could be a treble heads fav with the treble filter.... I am not a treble head. I greatly appreciate your thoughts man. They are still on my shortlist for sure

Okay, so I finally think I found a pair of old Sony tips I like on the Autumn. Better. I really like the soundstage on these things. Just feels more open and airy than the L4. Tips do matter for sure. I think the bass is there, it's just not punchy to what I REALLY like. The L4 has that punch. Maybe too much in comparison. If you're too loud it's prob not good for your ears. Ha ha!

I'm reading that the Moondrop Kato might be better than the Autumn. Have you tried those?

 

[Ceeluh7]

Okay, so I finally think I found a pair of old Sony tips I like on the Autumn. Better. I really like the soundstage on these things. Just feels more open and airy than the L4. Tips do matter for sure. I think the bass is there, it's just not punchy to what I REALLY like. The L4 has that punch. Maybe too much in comparison. If you're too loud it's prob not good for your ears. Ha ha!

I'm reading that the Moondrop Kato might be better than the Autumn. Have you tried those?

I haven't tried them but was contemplating the Kato instead.

 

[Phaethon]

Whoa.... Nice job man. Glad you got them so cheap, well cheap compared to the normal $349. I haven't heard them but these look like the best SQ out there for TWS at the moment... Sweet man, enjoy

I plan to! They’re due on Friday along with a pair of Moondrop Blessing 2s. I hope to have those in my TW2s soon. I got some MMCX to 2pin adapters coming because I think the Blessings are 2 pin. I hope those fit! @erockg Any ideas for good Fokus replacement tips?