Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[samandhi]

I think there should be at least a disclaimer in the firmware update that states exactly what has changed. Especially if it relates to freq response. At least give the user the option to update or not. (Maybe it did and I missed that?)

This is why I'm not to keen on firmware updates. I don't do them unless I absolutely have to.

+1 on that one! And, nope you didn't miss it (unless I did also). I have actually never seen any information about changing the sound on a FW update.

 

[jsmiller58]

I think there should be at least a disclaimer in the firmware update that states exactly what has changed. Especially if it relates to freq response. At least give the user the option to update or not. (Maybe it did and I missed that?)

This is why I'm not to keen on firmware updates. I don't do them unless I absolutely have to.

Edit: maybe it was in my head but I recall the same thing with the CX400BT. I thought it sounded better out of the box, but once I applied the firmware update. It didn't sound quite as good. Nothing was mentioned about changes to the sound in the update either. So who knows, maybe it's just my head playing tricks on me.

So, here’s the thing…. It is one thing for someone to forego one update…. But what about the accumulated bug fixes and feature adds have gone on for another 5 FW upgrades? There will be a lot of complaining about unresolved bugs or missing features that people who opted to skip updates in the past are experiencing. This is a no-win scenario, I think.

In my opinion, I support the right to make an informed decision - CA should have stated the FR was being tuned. But I also think the situation eventually would become intolerable if there is a critical bug fix and those who stopped the upgrade train in the past will not be able to benefit.

 

[jsmiller58]

I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.

Hey, you like what you like, and should only be satisfied when you have it!

 

[assassin10000]

I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.

Me too. DF tuning is very similar to what I find ideal personally (maybe a little less upper mid/lower treble, I think I prefer around 8-10db gain in that area).

Maybe you should try some great earbuds... I have the Moondrop Chaconne, and they are all those things you described and then some. I would put them up against any $xk priced IEM at this point (other than isolation). Only problem is that they don't have a detachable cable, so you can't run BT adaptors on them.

Off topic, I know, but I wish I could run these through something like the CF01, or the UTWS3, or the likes.

I wish the totl earbuds like K's, moondrop, etc had MMCX connectors. I'd love to be able to use them with TWS adapters.

Exactly what I've been trying to say. Frequency response is the single most important thing and shouldn't be changed.

Or at least should be available as an EQ preset.

 

[Juturna]

I need to kinda retract my complete panning of the Sennheiser Momentum TW2's. Got mine back after the left earbud was basically DOA when I bought them (it worked for an hour, then died). In the meantime I purchased the XM4's and have been enjoying them a lot.

But now when I got the Sennheiser MTW2 back I need to say that they seem to have a bit more clarity than the XM4's, but this is obviously just comparing the Sony with the stock foam tips vs some silicone tips on the MTW2's, so not completely fair.
I still think that the sound is a bit weird in places, no matter what I do I can't get drums to sound good, especially snares and cymbals but also kick drums can sound a bit weak and flat, almost compressed-sounding, there's just something in those frequencies that doesn't seem to be budged by the app EQ. I also think the treble can get a bit too harsh and sibilant on vocals on some tracks, but with a good fit these absolutely has clarity, decently fast bass response without bloat, and can deliver very clear vocals.

Somehow it seems like it's very close to the type of sound I want, but that little part that's NOT my type changes the sound signature to the point where I don't really love the "overall" sound. It's very good though, and I understand why people would like it. If I used Android and could EQ them with wavelet, perhaps I would be able to reach exactly what I wanted, not sure how they respond to EQ-ing outside of the app.

What I will criticize is that MTW2 has the shittiest included tips that i've tried, because they're just so goddamn small. The largest tips are a no-go on my right ear, so had to dig out some other tips that I had.

I think i'll still put them up for sale despite this because now I have the XM4's that I feel are just a more complete package and more practical, and honestly feels a bit better in my ears despite them being pretty chunky.

 

[Devodonaldson]

Some more observations on the XM4 ... now 12h later and well, not that much play time yet .. but some interesting findings
a) red flashing charging case! Quick google later reveals this is when it gets too hot'n steamy on the charging pad! Can't say I have read that before. Apparently to protect the battery.
b) I had changed to spinfits and thought about trying for a short run, but with those tips the fit felt less secure and I was not in the mood to change back to memory foam tips .. so, no run test today
c) While they don't have multipoint, the way I can change between devices is super easy (barely an inconvenience) .. just hold both buds a few seconds, they are in pairing mode and on my Redmi even a window pops up ... no need to look for the phone that was last connected and make it 'forget' those buds.

Still very smitten with the sound ... one review calls the bass 'sublime' and I could not agree more. It is not in your face deep and punchy .. it is smooth and persuasive ... and in the highs I am more aware of little cymbals and tiny knick knacks ...

Are you using them with ANC or Ambient mode on, or have those modes off? The bass response if very different if you aren't using either one of those. Deeper stronger, but still clean if you have ANC or ambient mode on. Lacking with them off, for me personally

 

[Juturna]

Are you using them with ANC or Ambient mode on, or have those modes off? The bass response if very different if you aren't using either one of those. Deeper stronger, but still clean if you have ANC or ambient mode on. Lacking with them off, for me personally

I for one still think it's hard to get the bass to sound especially impressive to me. It's still too much mid-bass and not enough upper bass and possibly sub-bass to my ears and could really be a lot tighter and faster. I know changing eartips could probably improve on that but i've so far had mixed success with that, but I haven't bought any of the more well-renowned tips like Spinfit 360s, Azla Crystal/XELASTEC or anything like that. But I feel like the earbuds should be judged first on how they sound with the included tips.

With the Large stock tips I find that the bass in some tracks just end up sounding very low in details. So if it's a bass synth in a drum&bass-track like Netsky - I See The Future In Your Eyes, the reese bass or whatever it is lacks BITE and a bit of definition. I hear it rumbling, but I don't hear what the actual bass synth sounds like.
It still sounds good, but it also feels like it doesn't sounds super accurate. But I can imagine the foam tips really don't help here either, and I feel like listening to tracks with a bass guitar also means that there's not enough definition to it, I feel like the tonality of the bass strings don't shine through as much as I would want.
With more heavy 808's in Trap and hip-hop I feel like it works but I could do with even more sub bass rumble.

I mean, I do really like the sound on the XM4's, but i'm not exactly impressed with the bass specifically, I feel like if I EQ the bass it's always just a bit too little or a bit too much with a bit of bloating to my ears. I've seen people say that they have NO bass though, and those people are probably just wearing way too small eartips. Some people really are just "i've always been a small eartip guy" and don't change even though eartips are different between different earbuds.

Just as an experiment I changed to the medium foam tips and the bass really changes character, it honestly sounds... a bit better, but the rest of the sound suffers.
The large tips are perfect for isolation and they fit my ears much better than the mediums because I don't get much in the way of a seal with the mediums. But I think a tip in between Medium and Large would probably be ideal for me. I might order some Azla or Spinfits soon enough though.

 

[gwompki]

I'm not one of your type that can listen to different tunings and enjoy them all. I want my headphones/earphones to all sound a certain way. I like what most would call a bass light sound that is clean and clear and detailed. You probably have more enjoyment in this hobby than I do because I'm so picky.

I would recommend giving the Moondrop Sparks a whirl. They fit weird due to the longish nozzle but I find them super comfortable regardless since they don't make contact with normal hotspot areas. No app support at this time but one is supposedly coming. They can be purchased from Amazon so the risk is low if you don't like them. I find them to be a great complement to the Melomania Touch.

 

[jasonb]

I would recommend giving the Moondrop Sparks a whirl. They fit weird due to the longish nozzle but I find them super comfortable regardless since they don't make contact with normal hotspot areas. No app support at this time but one is supposedly coming. They can be purchased from Amazon so the risk is low if you don't like them. I find them to be a great complement to the Melomania Touch.

I'm just going to stick with the WF1000XM4's for a while.

 

[BooleanBones]

I'm just going to stick with the WF1000XM4's for a while.

Loving the XM4s as well. Not sure if you follow the thread or not, but based on your frustration with the CA firmware changing the sound, it looks like Sony has pushed out similar sound tweaks in firmware updates. Albeit, their updates have gotten positive responses so far. Just an FYI.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/

 

[jasonb]

Loving the XM4s as well. Not sure if you follow the thread or not, but based on your frustration with the CA firmware changing the sound, it looks like Sony has pushed out similar sound tweaks in firmware updates. Albeit, their updates have gotten positive responses so far. Just an FYI.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-wf-1000xm4-impressions-thread.958184/

I read that right around the time I got mine they supposedly made them a hair brighter. I heard no difference when I updated, and I've seen measurements that back up that there was no actual change in frequency response. I've read every page in that thread. I literally have zero complaints about how the WF1000XM4's sound with just a simple eartip swap, with LDAC and no EQ at all. My ears are still getting used to the fit and shape of them though, but I'll manage.

This part circled is causing a bit of uncomfortableness, but I'll get used to it. It's already gotten better.

 

[gwompki]

I'm just going to stick with the WF1000XM4's for a while.

I hear ya! I personally couldn't stand the sound sig of XM3 or XM4, but LOVED the rest of the features. I've actually considered buying a set of XM3 refurbs now that they are so cheap just because of how good the ANC, comfort, app support, etc was.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

I read that right around the time I got mine they supposedly made them a hair brighter. I heard no difference when I updated, and I've seen measurements that back up that there was no actual change in frequency response. I've read every page in that thread. I literally have zero complaints about how the WF1000XM4's sound with just a simple eartip swap, with LDAC and no EQ at all. My ears are still getting used to the fit and shape of them though, but I'll manage.

This part circled is causing a bit of uncomfortableness, but I'll get used to it. It's already gotten better.

Thought you didn't like when companies change tonality without notice, though, or is it just Sony that gets a free pass?

 

[BooleanBones]

I read that right around the time I got mine they supposedly made them a hair brighter. I heard no difference when I updated, and I've seen measurements that back up that there was no actual change in frequency response. I've read every page in that thread. I literally have zero complaints about how the WF1000XM4's sound with just a simple eartip swap, with LDAC and no EQ at all. My ears are still getting used to the fit and shape of them though, but I'll manage.

This part circled is causing a bit of uncomfortableness, but I'll get used to it. It's already gotten better.

Great to hear on all fronts. Mine fortunately have fit well with ears. That would be bothersome with the bump you have circled.

 

[jasonb]

Thought you didn't like when companies change tonality without notice, though, or is it just Sony that gets a free pass?

I literally heard no difference from the one update I've gotten on mine so far. I guess you didn't really read my post. I heard no difference and there have been measurements to back up that there was no change.



Now if someone wants to prove that Cambridge Audio didn't change the sound with a graph I'll admit defeat and stand corrected.