[Aevum]

btw, anyone pulled the trigger on the new Galaxy Buds 2 ?

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

@jasonb I think of this the same way I think of a friend of mine when it comes to how...selective they are regarding anything they buy. Food, tattoos, makeup, etc...the point is she can run some really skilled tattoo artists through the ringer because she knows exactly what she wants and communicates that all the way through. If that tattoo artist isn't receptive to my friend's requests, the whole vision collapses and my friend has to apply for a slot in one of those "tattoo repair" shows on TV. If the two of them stay locked in and communicate the whole time, however, that's a headline-worthy piece of ink and it almost always results in a ton of new business for that artist.

Right now, we're my friend regarding our selection criteria for TWS. If every one of those companies had an us giving them feedback (and assuming they actually took it), we'd be having a completely different (yet favorable) problem where everything is great and just pick your flavor. That's too idealistic, I think. Also, those large companies catering to what matters to us tends to price these products completely out of their target market (just look at the flak Noble's getting on price and the product isn't even on the market yet). Business is such a weird system of checks and balances; all we're doing is witnessing the compromise.

All I know is that when I throw this track on, it's a thunderous experience from beginning to end. The Melomania Touch, despite everything that's said about them, still evoke something for me, and that's why I love 'em. We just have to keep providing the feedback.

 

[jasonb]

Thank you. Not like the company makes it hard to reach somebody. We as consumers need to get over this idea that companies read our minds and just happen to know what we want. It's a two-way street.

You'll never keep every user happy period. That's the problem.

@jasonb I think of this the same way I think of a friend of mine when it comes to how...selective they are regarding anything they buy. Food, tattoos, makeup, etc...the point is she can run some really skilled tattoo artists through the ringer because she knows exactly what she wants and communicates that all the way through. If that tattoo artist isn't receptive to my friend's requests, the whole vision collapses and my friend has to apply for a slot in one of those "tattoo repair" shows on TV. If the two of them stay locked in and communicate the whole time, however, that's a headline-worthy piece of ink and it almost always results in a ton of new business for that artist.

Right now, we're my friend regarding our selection criteria for TWS. If every one of those companies had an us giving them feedback (and assuming they actually took it), we'd be having a completely different (yet favorable) problem where everything is great and just pick your flavor. That's too idealistic, I think. Also, those large companies catering to what matters to us tends to price these products completely out of their target market (just look at the flak Noble's getting on price and the product isn't even on the market yet). Business is such a weird system of checks and balances; all we're doing is witnessing the compromise.

All I know is that when I throw this track on, it's a thunderous experience from beginning to end. The Melomania Touch, despite everything that's said about them, still evoke something for me, and that's why I love 'em. We just have to keep providing the feedback.

I think I'll be trying to return them or just selling them. Not a fan of this "practice". I'm gonna stand by what I said. I really don't think frequency response should be changed with firmware updates.

 

[BooleanBones]

I think I'll be trying to return them or just selling them. Not a fan of this "practice". I'm gonna stand by what I said. I really don't think frequency response should be changed with firmware updates.

Just trying to understand what you are describing as I am a little confused. The response that was changed recently was your baseline neutral measurement when you purchased them, let's say it was firmware version 1.4.7 for the sake of discussion. That "neutral" you liked, but it was recently modified/changed in firmware update 2.1.9 and you don't like the new "neutral" as it was adjusted, right? In my example, how do you know 1.4.7 was truly neutral? It's just the baseline "neutral" that you liked when you bought the product, right? Not trying to debate with you, just simply understand the comment on them editing the tones of "neutral" which you are not happy with.

 

[pholcus1975]

For Android users complaining about MT sound change with latest fw, just try deleting app cache, and check if you hear a further sound change. Do it while playing a track.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

For Android users complaining about MT sound change with latest fw, just try deleting app cache, and check if you hear a further sound change. Do it while playing a track.

Just attempted with no audible change. Interesting idea, though. Think it might have been something leftover in the cache that was messing with the new firmware?

 

[jasonb]

Just trying to understand what you are describing as I am a little confused. The response that was changed recently was your baseline neutral measurement when you purchased them, let's say it was firmware version 1.4.7 for the sake of discussion. That "neutral" you liked, but it was recently modified/changed in firmware update 2.1.9 and you don't like the new "neutral" as it was adjusted, right? In my example, how do you know 1.4.7 was truly neutral? It's just the baseline "neutral" that you liked when you bought the product, right? Not trying to debate with you, just simply understand the comment on them editing the tones of "neutral" which you are not happy with.

I'm not good at describing what I hear, but I liked the sound before the update, and now it's changed and I can't get them to sound as good as before. I've tried the neutral preset, I've tried adjusting the EQ to my tastes and I just can't make them sound like they did before the update.

 

[pholcus1975]

Just attempted with no audible change. Interesting idea, though. Think it might have been something leftover in the cache that was messing with the new firmware?

Yes, since they changed something in the eq, I thought app cache could mess it up

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Oh boy. Want to make it more interesting? Cycle between Neutral and a Custom EQ that's just set to flat. I think there's some additional DSP going on with that preset.

 

[BooleanBones]

Oh boy. Want to make it more interesting? Cycle between Neutral and a Custom EQ that's just set to flat. I think there's some additional DSP going on with that preset.

Great, you guys are giving me too many things to try out now Didn't get a chance to check some of this stuff out yet.

 

[jant71]

I thought I'd give a bit of an explanation of my email to clerkpalmer. I think most of us understand how ANC works, but a short description is that sample recordings of ambient noise are taken and played back as inverted sound waves, which results in the waves created by the ambient sound source being cancelled out. ANC headphones do not have separate drivers for producing the inverted waves, and therefore, in the vast majority of ANC headphones, you are asking a single dynamic driver to not only produce waves for your music, but also at the same time to produce inverted waves that cancel out the ambient sound waves. It is also the case that some of the waves being canceled out may involve waves associated with the music you are trying to listen to. It is just plain physics that a single piston type dynamic driver cannot do all that is asked of it in such a scenario without some distortion being introduced into the equation. A good explanation of how ANC works can be found at https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/10/noise-cancelling-vs-noise-isolating/ It is true that some very large companies with millions of dollars in RND have found very good workarounds for such physical limitations, but Noble certainly doesn't have such a budget.

Another aspect of ANC that didn't fit with the FoKus is that the shape of the headphone itself is dictated by ANC. That is why most ANC type headphones generally have the same bulbous or stick type shape. We wanted a semi-custom shape for the FoKus.

Unless I missed but so far what came out that I saw(Just from the HK show) didn't show they will have ambient. I figure it should if the Falcon Pro did. ANC I am not really interested in any how. The other one was a Hi-Res codec some were interested in. Not sure I am till they both improve the battery life and esp. the connection. Really needs quality mics and ambient for $349. Kinda like buying a BMW that has hand cranks to roll the windows up and down.

Speaking of connection, these JVC, they will be called the HA5T in the US do make a great cheap beater TWS. They best the Nuarl in size and ease of fit and comfort and will stay in more securely. They are pretty big sounding and fun. They do have a little something sweet in the sound. The surprise is the connection is extremely solid. The Nuarl was as good as any I have had but these are the new best connection king.

If someone could just combine the JVC and Nuarl that would be great. The size, shape, fit, and connection of the JVC and the SQ of the the Nuarl and the good ambient and give the JVC top and/or bottom buttons like the Nuarl. Like the color of the JVC as well.

 

[CocaCola15]

Could you elaborate about what you prefer about the M1+ ?

Thanks

Sure. I find the sound signature to be more to my liking. They feel more balanced. But my main reason is they are the second iteration of a model I already loved for fit/form and sound. And they are an improvement in my view. Not a sideways upgrade, also includes the app,with EQ. Of course, the fact that I just generally prefer foam tips and click ovee touch also is in play. The CA oem foamies are fantastic. Love the feel, fit and sound they offer. I have an issue with fit re the MTs, my right ear won’t work with the silicone tip. Weird, yes.

On the other hand, I am not as upset by the 2.1.9 FW as others. I do use EQ to adjust the MT sound, but it’s fine for me.

 

[jasonb]

Im still within their 60 day money back guarantee. I emailed them about this firmware change and may just return them depending on their response. I still just don't think frequency response is something that should be messed with in firmware updates. I've had a good few TWS earbud sets since the OG Galaxy Buds came out, and none have had any perceivable change in frequency response while I've owned them.

 

[samandhi]

There should be no ride. You buy an earphone for sound, the frequency response shouldn't change. If they want to add more presets or something like that, that is understandable, but don't go changing the default frequency response. Some may like the change, but you'll also end up with some who wont and will no longer be happy with the product they paid money for. Improving connection stability or improving the ambient sound mode, or fixing bugs is obviously ok, but don't mess with the way they sound.

Bud, I don't think it's fair of you to dictate what a company can and can't do. If you want to have that sort of decision-making power, it's a lot easier to do at the helm of your own company. If you don't like this as an approach, that's fine, but you're speaking in absolutes and that's incredibly naive. Thanks for your perspective, but I don't appreciate the tone.

So you're ok with buying a product, then down the road the company changes the most important aspect of that product so that you no longer like the product you paid for?

I totally understand the point being brought to bear here, but I think what some are missing is that in the beginning (when they very first came out), they are un-listenable. CA has been tweaking a bit every time they update, and for the most part for the better. They just happened to over do it this time. Those that were happy with the 1.4.2 update (is that the right one?), it was changed several times to get there.

For myself, this is why I do a lot of research before buying, so that I can make an informed decision as to whether the product is worth it or not to me.

Also, what others may or may not know is that we (Head-Fi'ers) have encouraged CA to make changes from the beginning. They have been very accommodating IMO. Do I like the new sound? Not really, but I will purchase another CA product because of how they interact with John-Q, and the support they have enacted for issues, etc...

Don't get me wrong, had I known they were updating the sound again, I probably would not have updated, and just been happy-go-lucky... But now that I have, I am not angry, nor will kick them out of my rotation; they are just not my fav anymore... I have heard much more expensive sound MUCH worse.

Just my 2¢! Peace!

 

[jsmiller58]

Weighing in on CA MT Firmware-gate…. **To me** the sound has definitely changed. Not sure if I like it more or less, since right now I am just wrapping my head around it being different - grainier treble, more pronounced bass. Given I was EQing these anyway, what it probably means for me is that I will need to redo my EQ profile. Definitely not the end of the world.