Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Aug 10, 2021 at 10:07 PM Post #36,106 of 45,433

camms

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Posts
26
Likes
10
Thanks so much for the responses. After sifting through as much of this thread as I could I see a lot of people love the sound signature on the Devialets, and as you say it seems all the firmware issues have been ironed out. Maybe I should pull the trigger and if I still want something for running, get something with ear hooks or similar.

How about a best SQ for running TWS recommendation? How bad do the Powerbeats Pro sound?

Cheers all!
 
Aug 10, 2021 at 10:10 PM Post #36,107 of 45,433

CJYYZ

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Posts
44
Likes
26
Location
Toronto
Thanks! I have the Z7s now, and yes, they do connect on my phone (Huawei P10) to standard aptx. Have you (or anyone else who owns the Lypertek Z7) been using the foam tips? They are quite challenging to get on, and I don't want to find myself in the same situation as a few others in terms of ending up with a broken nozzle. I always use foam tips on my Tevis, and they are great. Does anyone have any recommendations for foam tips with a slightly wider bore than the Z7 Flexifit tips?
I didn't have any luck with the stock tips (silicone or foam). I ended up using large Final silicone tips. And be careful changing tips. One of my nozzles snapped off, but luckily the store I bought them from sent me a new replacement pair.
 
Last edited:
Aug 10, 2021 at 10:16 PM Post #36,108 of 45,433

CJYYZ

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Posts
44
Likes
26
Location
Toronto
So I'm not sure if I should blame it on the firmware updates changing the sound, or if I just greatly prefer my WF1000XM4's now, but I'm just not liking the Melomania Touch's right now. The WF1000XM4 with a simple tip change, using LDAC, and no EQ at all sounds way more neutral and detailed. I just put my Melomania Touch's in my ears, updated the firmware to the latest one, and I'm still not as happy with the sound as I was a few weeks ago.

If anyone wants to make me an offer to buy mine since nobody seems to have them in stock I may take you up on it.
I'll trade you for the Lypertek Z7s. Amazing sound, but I can't seem to get a proper fit with them.
 
Aug 10, 2021 at 11:06 PM Post #36,109 of 45,433

samandhi

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Posts
2,386
Likes
3,378
Location
USA
@miserybeforethemusic I can't help but still be curious about the MT - I do like me some bass and fun tuning as as long as it's not at too much of a cost.

I bought the JBL Tour Pro+ and, with a lot of EQing, got them somewhere I'm ok with, but thinking I'll sell.

Now, I just got the Nuarl N6 Pro 2 and out of the box I really wanted to EQ them but between the HDSS (I think) and the driver, they have a tremendous clarity (imho). I did adjust the EQ in Spotify to up the bass (for my taste) and they deliver with 0 issues - I just want an EQ in the N6 app itself (which is barebones).

I don't know if you have plans to try them, but I would be very curious to hear your thoughts on the N6 Pro 2 vs Melomania Touch! (Anyone else who may have both please also comment!) I'm also very interested in the MT mic quality for calls.
I don't have the N6P 2, but I have the N6P and the MT. I can tell you that they are polar opposites. MT are warmer, and more of a fun tuned TWS. The N6P are more neutral, and very revealing for a TWS. They are also pretty picky with lower quality tracks than the MT. The MT sound just as good with Spotify mp3s, as they do with 24/96 stuff because they are so warm, and the upper treble is a bit rolled off. This is not to say that you can't hear any details though. If you want a pair for only out and about MT are the way to go, but if you are in a quiet place and/or at home, you might prefer the N6P (or N6P 2??). Bottom line is that the MT are more versatile in their tuning, whereas the N6P are really best for things that need detail retrieval.

All this is my opinion only...:)
 
Aug 10, 2021 at 11:37 PM Post #36,111 of 45,433

samandhi

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Posts
2,386
Likes
3,378
Location
USA
As to the newest FW update for the MT... I missed the 2.18 update apparently, and went straight from 2.17 to 2.19. I can tell you now that even though I hadn't heard these in a while, the sound sig has definitely changed. They can indeed get shouty a bit now with certain tracks. It is in the upper mids/lower treble that they boosted it most IMO. It makes the whole treble have more sparkle and clearer. I think the upper treble is still rolled off. So I think maybe you could think of it as a backwards (small) r shape, starting with upper mids and into the treble. These can definitely get shouty on stuff like Motorhead - Ace Of Spades but the treble now sounds a bit weird, thin, and recessed also. But, even when a song isn't shouty (per se'), it is pretty fatiguing after a bit (to my ears). But, my old ears have a 2k to 5k radar for such boosts... :)

As for bass, they decreased the mid bass, and boosted the lower bass and possibly the upper bass. They still have a tremendous amount of bass quantity, but now they don't have the same punch they used to have, and that kinda' messes up the whole sound signature IMO. Was just listening to Whitesnake - Death Disco while I was typing this, and WOW that upper bass is just too much (I don't recall this being an issue before, though it IS possible that I missed it before I suppose).

Mids are still recessed a bit, but are also still warm. Overall, I don't like the way they went with it. I was perfectly happy with the tuning on the FW update before the 2.17 update. The punchy bass, and non-shouty mids are part of what gave them their charm IMO, because now, they aren't neutral, nor are they really fun either. CA, if you are reading this, please go back to the sound they had before this rash of updates, and leave them alone (as far as FR goes)?!

Keep in mind, I could be wrong about all except upper bass, and upper mids, because when you boost one area, it may appear as if something else is decreased. They ARE indeed shouty now, and the bass line (not drums) takes front stage in your face.

With the 2.19 update they re-fixed the volume thing where you couldn't change the volume on the device but ONLY on the buds (whether you had absolute volume disabled or not).

I upated mine through my DX300, and it went without hitch (again), and only took about 5 minutes or so.
 
Aug 11, 2021 at 12:28 AM Post #36,112 of 45,433

Tommy C

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Posts
1,845
Likes
1,326
As to the newest FW update for the MT... I missed the 2.18 update apparently, and went straight from 2.17 to 2.19. I can tell you now that even though I hadn't heard these in a while, the sound sig has definitely changed. They can indeed get shouty a bit now with certain tracks. It is in the upper mids/lower treble that they boosted it most IMO. It makes the whole treble have more sparkle and clearer. I think the upper treble is still rolled off. So I think maybe you could think of it as a backwards (small) r shape, starting with upper mids and into the treble. These can definitely get shouty on stuff like Motorhead - Ace Of Spades but the treble now sounds a bit weird, thin, and recessed also. But, even when a song isn't shouty (per se'), it is pretty fatiguing after a bit (to my ears). But, my old ears have a 2k to 5k radar for such boosts... :)

As for bass, they decreased the mid bass, and boosted the lower bass and possibly the upper bass. They still have a tremendous amount of bass quantity, but now they don't have the same punch they used to have, and that kinda' messes up the whole sound signature IMO. Was just listening to Whitesnake - Death Disco while I was typing this, and WOW that upper bass is just too much (I don't recall this being an issue before, though it IS possible that I missed it before I suppose).

Mids are still recessed a bit, but are also still warm. Overall, I don't like the way they went with it. I was perfectly happy with the tuning on the FW update before the 2.17 update. The punchy bass, and non-shouty mids are part of what gave them their charm IMO, because now, they aren't neutral, nor are they really fun either. CA, if you are reading this, please go back to the sound they had before this rash of updates, and leave them alone (as far as FR goes)?!

Keep in mind, I could be wrong about all except upper bass, and upper mids, because when you boost one area, it may appear as if something else is decreased. They ARE indeed shouty now, and the bass line (not drums) takes front stage in your face.

With the 2.19 update they re-fixed the volume thing where you couldn't change the volume on the device but ONLY on the buds (whether you had absolute volume disabled or not).

I upated mine through my DX300, and it went without hitch (again), and only took about 5 minutes or so.

Thanks for letting us know.
I was really locked-in to order these once they become available in U.S/ Canada but I'm really hesitant based on reports that the SS has changed with each FW update. :-/
 
Aug 11, 2021 at 12:46 AM Post #36,113 of 45,433

FYLegend

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Posts
1,050
Likes
255
Some users have complained that Windows was choosing AAC over AptX on their devices. That might explain why Dyplay Urban Traveller headphones sound cleaner now.

Here are the results for Galaxy Buds+ with the latest Win 11 Beta. It only has "202" for the AAC bitrate - is this the minimum VR bitrate?
Buds Plus AAC Win 11 Beta_1.png
 
Aug 11, 2021 at 12:52 AM Post #36,114 of 45,433

samandhi

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Posts
2,386
Likes
3,378
Location
USA
Thanks for letting us know.
I was really locked-in to order these once they become available in U.S/ Canada but I'm really hesitant based on reports that the SS has changed with each FW update. :-/
I know what you mean. I was very hesitant to update because of that very issue, but I was being stupid and gave in to the update fever... :) I should have left well enough alone because I didn't have ANY issues that needed fixing on mine... :frowning2:

It is not to say they are all bad, because they aren't. The first FW that shipped with them was the absolute worst. It was super boosted bass, but also super muddy and boomy. Mids were so recessed you couldn't hardly hear them, and the treble was so rolled off that you could barely make out any sort of clarity. They fixed it, and it got better until the last FW update before 2.17 where they got it just right (in a fun tuned sort of way). Bottom line is that they are currently somewhere in between what they were to begin with, and what they were at that last update (as far as how good they sound).

This changes the order at which I would put my current line-up of TWS:
  1. Nuarl N6 Pro
  2. Hifiman TWS600
  3. Bose Soundsport Free (OG version) tied with Cambridge Audio Melomania Touch
Sorry CA. I don't hate them, but even the SBC only Bose is tied with the MT atm. They sound almost alike save for the 2 or 3k spike and a bit less bass on the Bose (which is actually impressive considering the Bose are open).
 
Aug 11, 2021 at 1:43 AM Post #36,115 of 45,433
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Posts
794
Likes
3,685
Location
Dongguan, Shenzhen, Taipei, and California
Hard to buy that with plenty of cheaper stuff with the features. How can Nuarl and CA give good sound and ambient for under $150? Edifier just did dual hybrid with amplifier chip, six mics, ANC, and programmed in a Hi-Res codec for $100.

There are companies that go all-in on TWS with their products, enough to center their entire sales strategy around true wireless. Thus, they structure their entire business around developing true wireless products. We can also do that, if we go out and raise more capital from investors, though that also means the customer pays it back somewhere else down the line, as that means hiring employees dedicated for TWS, changing our sales structure, etc. We've also considered going the crowdfunding route. Again, it takes a readjustment of human and capital resources to get something substantial going. Is it potentially our fault? Perhaps. We did not move fast enough to get ourselves well-positioned to ride the true wireless wave. We also sunk our resources into developing esoterica like metal domed drivers. Doing so means a few less trips to the anechoic chamber certified for testing ANC, and means less money to pay a third party to implement all the microphones for us. An ODM/OEM will probably throw that service in for free if we order, say 20,000 units at once. But because we don't want to be caught in inventory hell, we don't order that many units at once. On the flipside, a company like, say, Pamu, can do push that many units easily, because they're not marketing their products to the enthusiast and instead to Jack and Jill.
 
DUNU It's a good time to go #PRO. Our next generation of in-ears powered by ECLIPSƎ are here! Learn more on our official website. Stay updated on DUNU at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/DUNU.FANS/ https://twitter.com/DUNU_Headphone https://www.instagram.com/dunu_topsound/ https://www.dunu-topsound.com/ int_ops@dunu-topsound.com, support@dunutopsound.com https://m.me/DUNU.FANS
Aug 11, 2021 at 2:25 AM Post #36,116 of 45,433

Tenlow

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 9, 2016
Posts
295
Likes
384
Location
Mannheim, Germany
Comparison Sony WF-1000XM4 and Master&Dynamic MW08 Sport



  1. Build Quality: That kevlar case of the MW08S is so much nicer and feels way more premium. It seems much more stable/durable, too (no play whatsoever, unlike the Sony case). I also like the three LEDs on the front (one for each bud plus one for the charging case). The M&D case slightly taller while Sony case is a bit wider in dimensions. Both cases offer charging via USB-C as well as wireless charging. The buds themselves are well built on the Sony but maybe a bit chunky, while the MW08S provide a sapphire glas finish and just look and feel gorgeous. Winner: M&D (1:0)
  2. Battery life is exceptional on both devices. Up to 12 hours are possible (10 with ANC) on the M&D, while Sony provides 8 hours with ANC and also a possible 12 hours with ANC off. Total (theoretical) battery running times (including the case’s battery) are 36 hours on the Sonys and 42 hours on the MW08S. Both offer quick charge. So, even though both are incredible here, the M&D take the cake ever so slightly. Winner: M&D (2:0)
  3. Connectivity is also very impressive on both buds. Both offer Bluetooth 5.2. The XM4 have SBC, AAC and LDAC codecs, while the MW08S offer SBC, AAC and aptX Adaptive. Bluetooth range is pretty much equally as good and stable on both as well. Both don’t offer multipoint connection unfortunately. However, both can use either the left or the right bud while the other one charges in the case. So each bud establishes its own connection and there is no so-called “hero and sidekick” implementation, which is very good. Switching to paired devices is, however, better implemented on the Sonys. You can just directly connect to a previously paired device, while you have to go to bluetooth pairing mode first on the MW08S before you can connect. This minor inconvenience on the M&D make Sony the winner here. Winner: Sony (2:1)
  4. Fit/Comfort is highly subjective of course, so I can only speak for myself here. I’m a relatively tall guy (1,90m) and have normal to big ears. Still, I can definitely feel the XM4 more in my ears. At first, they were even a bit painful and my ears had to adjust to the new sore spots, which they luckily did after some time. Now, the XM4 are relatively comfortable even and don’t hurt any more but they are still a bit bulbous and I never forget that I’m wearing them. For me, the MW08S shine in the comfort department. They don’t feel heavy and most of the buds size is “outside” the ear and therefore there are no sore spots or anything like that. They really are supremely comfortable (and stable!) in my ears and I can wear them for several hours without any issues. M&D also provides 5 silicone ear tips + 3 foam tips, while Sony only offers 3 sizes of their new “hybrid foam NC” tips. Winner: M&D (3:1)
  5. Passive and active noise isolation is better on the Sony, also partly already due to the aforementioned new tips. They really block out a lot of noise on their own already without any ANC. The MW08S also provide very good passive noise isolation if you use the included foam tips (which is typical for foam tips of course). Still, the XM4 are a bit better here. More importantly, ANC is clearly better on the WF-1000XM4. While the M&D are no slouch and good enough for most situations, the Sony are simply a level higher here and are rightfully called the best ANC buds as of now (together with the Bose buds maybe). ANC is seriously impressive on the XM4. The MW08S have slightly better ANC then the MTW2 from Sennheiser, I would say (just for reference). Winner: Sony (3:2)
  6. App support scores the next point for the XM4. While both InEars have an accompanying app, the M&D is fairly sparse in direct comparison. You can set the standard modes for ANC and transparency mode there, rename the buds, set an auto-off timer, turn in-ear detection on or off and install firmware updates. That’s it. Sonys app offers a plethora of features on top of that, like adjusting automatic ambient sound modes, an actually usable 6 band EQ (!), adjusting touch gestures for both sides, the very useful “speak to chat” feature, DSEE Extreme upscaling, showing the currently used codec and even more than that. Winner: Sony (3:3)
  7. Audio quality is very good on both offerings. I like the stock tuning of the MW08S better than the XM4’s stock EQ. It is clear, “wide”, with detailed highs and a nice punchy (not muddy) bass response. It’s understandable why the went with a sound signature like this. It will please many people. What makes the XM4 stand out here, though, is that a) they can get louder if needed (I always like that “freedom”) and more importantly they have the previously mentioned EQ in the app that makes them soo versatile sound wise as they really respond well to that EQ! Stock tuning is a bit dark/warm with lacking treble extension and not many details in the highs in general. The EQ, however, solves that “problem” for me entirely and I love how the XM4 sound after EQ. Ultimately, the XM4 win this category because of their EQ. Otherwise, it would have been a draw. Winner: Sony (3:4)
  8. Controls are completely different. Sony uses a very responsive and accurate touch control implementation while the Master&Dynamic use tactile physical buttons. You can play/Pause, skip or reverse tracks, (de-) activate ANC and transparency mode and summon your personal assistant like Siri as well as enter pairing mode with no issues on both models. Both work very well and I cannot say that I do have a real preference here. If you do, you might want to consider this, however. Still, for me, the M&D take this round just because you can additionally increase/decrease the volume on the left bud without having to sacrifice another feature for it (which you have to do on the XM4, as of now at least, as you can only set one control scheme per bud and not multiple at the moment). Winner: M&D (4:4)
  9. Call quality/microphones are equally ok and very usable. I tested both for a couple of calls and had no complaints on either model. They may not be the best buds around for calls but they work well enough. I cannot say which one is (much) better here, honestly. They're both no Airpods here. Winner: Draw (4:4).
  10. Price/Performance ratio and conclusion: It is very much debatable of course. The XM4 are significantly more "affordable" being 70€ less here (279€ vs. 349€) and offer more features as well as the better sound quality (EQ'd!!) and better ANC. They are the more "complete" package/allrounder. So, rationally, the XM4 are the better buy and value for money if you're looking for premium wireless Bluetooth ANC inears. They would also be my pick in this category because of it. That said, in times of the Bowers&Wilkins PI7, e.g. which are even an additional 50€ compared to the MW08S, the MW08S still have a lot going for them (compared to both the XM4 and the PI7 that is). They have that wonderful kevlar case, excellent build quality on the buds (sapphire glas), are more comfortable (to me), have the better total battery life, great controls, offer the much larger selection of included (7, silicone and foam) tips while also sounding very good. I will keep both the XM4 and the MW08S for now as I love them equally at the moment. Time will tell how this feeling develops :) Winner: You choose :)
 

Attachments

  • A8AFBE3D-AB12-48AD-8207-D9E4B868A5ED.jpeg
    A8AFBE3D-AB12-48AD-8207-D9E4B868A5ED.jpeg
    770.3 KB · Views: 0
  • A81CE972-B8EE-4493-AE69-58A19A52092D.jpeg
    A81CE972-B8EE-4493-AE69-58A19A52092D.jpeg
    703.4 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Aug 11, 2021 at 2:29 AM Post #36,117 of 45,433

helmutcheese

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Posts
469
Likes
220
Location
UK
Some users have complained that Windows was choosing AAC over AptX on their devices. That might explain why Dyplay Urban Traveller headphones sound cleaner now.

Here are the results for Galaxy Buds+ with the latest Win 11 Beta. It only has "202" for the AAC bitrate - is this the minimum VR bitrate?
Buds Plus AAC Win 11 Beta_1.png
I doubt it as I can connect on same earphones at 300k and even 330k (random and it was 285k in my screenshot).
 
Aug 11, 2021 at 7:31 AM Post #36,119 of 45,433

BobJS

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
May 6, 2012
Posts
1,661
Likes
981
Location
Dayton, OH
As an FYI, I listed my MTs on the for sale forum and the potential buyer said he contacted CA and they said they have supply chain issues (parts availability etc.) and could not give him a date for restocking. I probably will sell them, for reasons stated. I just have too much stuff and honestly prefer the M1+.

Could you elaborate about what you prefer about the M1+ ?

Thanks
 
Aug 11, 2021 at 8:55 AM Post #36,120 of 45,433

LordToneeus

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Posts
151
Likes
248
Location
Evansville
How did the S80 sound? Do they have an app?
Do you feel they were worth their asking price?
Bear in mind, this was two years ago, but to me they were a breath of fresh air. There was just such clarity, such neutrality compared to what I had been sampling. I paid $45.99 for them, and I'd still have them if I hadn't gifted them that Christmas.

There was no app back then.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top