Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[nekonhime]

Thanks, didn't know it's a touchy subject

Thank you. When you say amount do you mean quality? Or are you referring to volume?

Both

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Thank you. When you say amount do you mean quality? Or are you referring to volume?

This might help:

https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/

Things get hairy once you realize that a poor implementation of a top-tier codec will cripple the overall performance. It's pretty generally understood, though, that SBC has the lowest signal quality overall. Bass and treble are cut off early, resolution is poor when compared even to AAC, but it's almost ubiquitous in terms of compatibility and is extremely power-efficient.

Even AAC is capable of achieving redbook (16/44) over BT, but seems like not everybody's good at implementing that codec and real-world performance can vary pretty wildly. For iOS users, it's a pretty robust and high-quality codec. Android users have a hit-or-miss experience.

LDAC seems to be the most "figured out" of the hi-res codecs right now. I tend to use it to send my phone's signal to a Shanling M0, which I then plug my wired IEMs into. Sounds fantastic, but there still seems to be no way to set "Best Quality (990kbps)" as a default (it's always "Best Effort," or the scalable option). However, it's a massive battery drain in comparison; I'm lucky to get about 4 hours out of the M0 when running it as a LDAC receiver. This is probably indicative of why those who have LDAC TWS don't get great battery life; it's a pretty power-hungry codec.

Finally, my experience with aptX Adaptive hasn't been very pleasant. Things don't always connect when they should, they certainly don't re-connect very easily. I sometimes get artifacting distortion on high-bitrate material with both the Edifier TWS1 Pro and Noble Falcon Pro. Subsequent Android updates have helped with that, but I do tend to just run on regular aptX to avoid having to deal with the hassle.

Volume, on the other hand, seems to be a factor of however the TWS are programmed, not so much what codec you're using. The JBL Club Pro+ are notoriously quiet in stock form and some of us have resorted to creating an EQ preset that's a flat +3dB gain to have more usable volume, but the Noble Falcon Pro have such a powerful amp that I usually have to set the preamp gain to -9dB to have a usable volume range.

 

[TheOnlyDocc]

@TheOnlyDocc didn't you receive a pair of the Earfun Air Pro recently?

Yes i received a pair. They are not bad at all. But what i do not like about them is, that you do not have volume control via the buds directly. And that is a absolut no go for me! I do not know if you read it, but the Air Pro are made by Edifier (Edifier TWSNB2) and tuned by Earfun. The main difference between them is the tuning and that the Edifier TWS come with a controll app for your phone. At the moment i use the EarFun Free Pro as daily driver. If the missing volume control is a also a no go for you check out the Free Pro.

 

[scubaphish]

I found a set of Sennheiser MTW2 for $200 new and sealed, but I might have a chance at grabbing the WF-1000XM4 for around $220 if I wait a bit... none of them can be returned in any way after purchase though since Amazon is the only store that offers returns like that where i'm at.

I feel like the Sennys won't have quite enough bass to satisfy the part of me that likes heavy electronic music and really enjoys some heavy bass rumbles from time to time, and I feel like the Sony's won't satisfy the part of me that wants a huge sound with big soundstage and some really nice sparkle in the upper mids and highs for more ambient and atmospheric music... Can somebody create a Sonyheiser Momentum WF-1000TW2-Frankenstein hybrid for me?

FYI Sennheiser is selling recertified MTW2 for 189 on eBay. And they’re returnable

 

[TK33]

Finally, my experience with aptX Adaptive hasn't been very pleasant. Things don't always connect when they should, they certainly don't re-connect very easily. I sometimes get artifacting distortion on high-bitrate material with both the Edifier TWS1 Pro and Noble Falcon Pro. Subsequent Android updates have helped with that, but I do tend to just run on regular aptX to avoid having to deal with the hassle.

Is this just with your OnePlus 8T or other phones? I agree with you that implementation matters and also seems very inconsistent. The connection quality of the B&W PI7s with the OnePlus 8T is much better than my LG V60 but I get weird artifacts (sounds like something is stuck in a fan). I don't get any such artifacts on my V60 when using aptX adaptive with the PI7s but the connection is terrible and inconsistent. I really wish there were a way to force aptX HD instead since I don't need the low latency.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Is this just with your OnePlus 8T or other phones? I agree with you that implementation matters and also seems very inconsistent. The connection quality of the B&W PI7s with the OnePlus 8T is much better than my LG V60 but I get weird artifacts (sounds like something is stuck in a fan). I don't get any such artifacts on my V60 when using aptX adaptive with the PI7s but the connection is terrible and inconsistent. I really wish there were a way to force aptX HD instead since I don't need the low latency.

The 8T is my only Adaptive-capable device, so that's the one I'm referencing. Have a feeling it has to do with the CPU choice; maybe these late-gen Snapdragon processors need some work.

 

[DRuM]

Just wanted to say that if anyone is looking for perfect AV sync while watching live tv and streaming media on their smart tv, the Mpow M30 works perfectly, along with an Amazon Firestick. Watching live tv on my LG, the lipsync is perfect.

However, if I watch YouTube, Netflix or BBC iPlayer using the tv's built in smart apps, or stream those apps from my phone to the tv, BT sync is hit and miss and the sound is mostly ever so slightly behind the picture. I was recommended to buy an Amazon Firestick since the buds can bluetooth direct to it, and there's an AV sync adjuster on it.

Well I'm so impressed. I'm getting absolutely flawless sync on the stick, like literally no latency whatsoever, and haven't even needed to use the adjuster. It takes a second to switch BT connection between the firestick and the tv, depending on if I want to stream media or watch live tv.

I also get perfect sync pairing the buds directly to my android phone and the phone lets me switch to the SBC codec. Can't get perfect sync on my laptop though as apparently the firestick won't work. But still, I'm delighted with the result for my tv.

 

[SilverEars]

I think this is potentially a very touchy subject (ie Tidal lossless vs Spotify 320kbps). On paper, no BT is not there yet. Even LDAC can't do true CD quality. But it's really close. However, in practice, you can get pretty amazing sound quality from BT using other codecs. It's largely up to the tuning of the driver and implementation of the chipset. For me I am willing to forego the BEST quality for convenience for certain use cases.

(Full disclosure if I stated anything incorrectly apologies in advance, not trying to start a debate )

XM4 needs to clean up the sound. At that level of crappy audio quality LDAC makes no difference.

 

[TK33]

The 8T is my only Adaptive-capable device, so that's the one I'm referencing. Have a feeling it has to do with the CPU choice; maybe these late-gen Snapdragon processors need some work.

Perhaps but I think both the One Plus 8T and the V60 use the Snapdragon 865 chip but seem to have different types of issues. Happened on two different OnePlus 8T phones (I just got a warranty replacement due to calls constantly dropping/not coming in) so I think it may have to do with the design/implementation of the phone itself. Anyway, I do agree with you regarding not having the best experience with aptX adaptive so far.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Perhaps but I think both the One Plus 8T and the V60 use the Snapdragon 865 chip but seem to have different types of issues. Happened on two different OnePlus 8T phones (I just got a warranty replacement due to calls constantly dropping/not coming in) so I think it may have to do with the design/implementation of the phone itself. Anyway, I do agree with you regarding not having the best experience with aptX adaptive so far.

Yeah, it's pretty frustrating. Taught me to not get so wrapped up in the codec wars, though I am changing my tune regarding the quality of LDAC after having some really good luck using it on the Shanling M0 with wired IEMs. Just have to fix that battery life...

 

[AudioNoob]

APTX question, in all the APTX buds I've tried, I get audible distortion above 13k. If I force the phone to use AAC through developer options, it goes away. It also presents at frequncies above the earphone's representation capabilities. Try the test here on a device that supports APTX and let me know what you think. Any ideas? Is it just psychoacoustic compression?
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php

Anybody willing to entertain this test with aptx. Shouldn't take much time.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Anybody willing to entertain this test with aptx. Shouldn't take much time.

I use aptX pretty frequently, but in two meetings at once here. I'll do my best to get on and run the test later today for ya

 

[clerkpalmer]

XM4 needs to clean up the sound. At that level of crappy audio quality LDAC makes no difference.

So you’re saying you don’t like them? Lol.

 

[Juturna]

FYI Sennheiser is selling recertified MTW2 for 189 on eBay. And they’re returnable

I don't feel like ordering from overseas when it comes to more expensive products like that, it's a hassle if something happens to it. I just put the $ price for convenience instead of the local currency where i'm at. But this is basically like that deal only... not returnable. I actually know that Sennheiser has a b-stock shop that you can order from through a website but honestly the website looks so sketchy that I'm actually very hesitant to order anything from there lmao

 

[Bobbetybob]

Feeling the itch for something new, currently looking at the Lypertek Pureplay Z3 2.0, Noble Falcon 2 and Melomania Touch because they're all similarly priced but they all seem to have some downsides.

I've not really seen many opinions on the Lypertek's, sounds like they might be quite dark sounding? The Falcon 2 there's also not tons of info on so I'm not even sure what the sound signature is. The Melomania Touch sound like they'd be the best sounding but the connectivity issues are offputting. Any thoughts from anyone who's heard any of them?