[miserybeforethemusic]

Huh...that's weird. Had the Right MT in, was listening to music on Qobuz for about an hour (right bud only) and the whole bud powered off/dropped signal on its own. Little guys were fully charged before I put them in, so a little confused by what happened there. Perhaps Qobuz isn't reporting that it's a listening activity to the MTs and they're shutting down on standby? Regardless, took it as a sign to switch to the next pair. Noble Falcon 1, in you go!

I really do take for granted how comfy the Nobles are, across the board. The Moulton brothers really do have an advantage having worked with CIEMs for so long; they just happen to make a universal that works so well for my ear shape. Still trying to get a feel for how the Noble Upgrade app works (the older one). It never senses when you have the latest firmware, so you can end up pushing the same firmware update to your buds ad infinitum. There are merits to this, especially if your firmware ends up corrupted somehow, but it would be nice to have some means of knowing when the latest is, in fact, the latest. Currently, I'm on 1.2.5 for each bud.

But I like how much more evenly-tuned the NF1 are, relative to the MT. They may not be as rich or enveloping, but they come across to me as a low-fatigue, multi-genre capable, comfortable, and secure pair that I wouldn't mind taking to the gym or on the stationary bike if the situation calls for it. Not a whole lot of fuss, but also not a whole lot of price (anymore) for good aptX sound.

Still don't regret getting these on a whim. Still recommend them over the Earfun Free Pro, but understand that's based on my personal preference.

 

[Canabuc]

have you heard something what is "better" in sound , as the 1&2 ?

I like Mids alot on the Technics but find the low end meh. Soundstage better on sennheiser as is overall sound to me.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

I like Mids alot on the Technics but find the low end meh. Soundstage better on sennheiser as is overall sound to me.

Psychoacoustics are so cool.

It's pretty impressive how much Sennheiser had to notch out of their sound signature to get that warmth without crushing all of the spatial cues. It's very 90s Bose-like...back before they started doing the whole lifestyle speaker thing. What I have a problem with is how that sort of sound signature is handled as volume goes up; trying to overcome the effects of equal-loudness contours. These TWS would be absolutely beautiful for some software management of it (kinda like an auto-gain for your volume that compensates based on the F-M curves). Haven't seen anybody mention that this is the route they're taking yet, but I'd market the hell out of it if I was. Geeks like me would go nuts over it.

Technics, on the other hand, just kinda does it the old school way and goes for a very W-shaped signature, minus the bottom-most peak. Also very 90s-like, but now you're looking at your, well, Technics gear. It had authority and strength, but you knew there were better options out there if you wanted a blanket of bass.

But the real trick is compensating for HRTF with in-ears since you're bypassing certain key parts of the ear that help make things sound as spacious as they do. Good tuners will know which upper-midrange and treble frequencies to excite in order to compensate for this. This is also why "flat" IEMs will most likely sound awful to your ears, because those excitation frequencies are being left completely untouched. What makes for a flat room speaker makes a terrible IEM. Was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around since I spend almost an equal amount of time in each hobby.

Not sure if everybody's familiar with this article, but knowing how to interpret a FR plot can save you from making some really bad purchasing decisions and avoid getting caught up in whatever flavor's popular this month. Also helps put a spotlight on how vague some of the terminology has gotten at this point. Absolute kudos to Crinacle for the time he spent putting content like this together.

Your listening notes are spot on for each pair, @Canabuc . Couldn't agree more in both cases.

 

[jant71]

Would you rather hear a bloated 10Hz or a clean 20? That's the reason I don't get the specs chase, especially with in-ears. So many variables. Had my fill of getting the "lowest lows" in my car audio days. Lots of ways to get there using the same driver. Fwiw, they have 3mm dynamics that'll play down to 10Hz as well, which is why I say the spec is misleading.

Interesting. Haven't tried the EVA, but I imagine it's a solid piece of kit. Curious to see what the next release will be.

well 10 and 20 says nothing about the quality but BT already cuts the ends of the range off so 20 vs 10 is certainly something one can notice and not be too happy about. Depends on how much roll off bothers a person. Of course the only quality indication would be that they are cheaper and that JBL isn't the kind to make these better sounding and cheaper especially since they are all part of the "+" series and the Club Pro + are seemingly gonna keep on going and with the $20 higher price. I think something is there to be said about the 6.8mm driver being in both the $199 models but not in anything even a little cheaper. Probably is the better quality driver.

Still don't have aptX or LL or adaptive etc. and not gonna be LE compatible so not sure these new models will be that much in demand anyhow. Here where we are in the know it is ~6 months away from stuff that will be new tech capable.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

well 10 and 20 says nothing about the quality but BT already cuts the ends of the range off so 20 vs 10 is certainly something one can notice and not be too happy about. Depends on how much roll off bothers a person. Of course the only quality indication would be that they are cheaper and that JBL isn't the kind to make these better sounding and cheaper especially since they are all part of the "+" series and the Club Pro + are seemingly gonna keep on going and with the $20 higher price. I think something is there to be said about the 6.8mm driver being in both the $199 models but not in anything even a little cheaper. Probably is the better quality driver.

Still don't have aptX or LL or adaptive etc. and not gonna be LE compatible so not sure these new models will be that much in demand anyhow. Here where we are in the know it is ~6 months away from stuff that will be new tech capable.

Forgot about the BT limitation on the low-end. Good call. JBL's so weird with how they structure their line, but I agree that they'll probably stick to those principles. They could also do the usual JBL/Harman thing and go completely off the rails, obscuring where any of the good products are within a range. We'll have to wait and see.

aptX is also a really bizarre omission from the Club Pro+ given its price, recent release, and decent app development. Would have thought they'd be able to swing aptX without a problem, too. At least what I get sounds pretty great.

Sounds like a little more stagnation for now. I'm sure everybody's wallet is probably happy for that. For now.

Speaking of, where are my Edifier and Status?

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Something like this won't sound good at all with too much bloom. It'll overdrive half the track. Perfect track for the Technics, though.

 

[chinmie]

I cannot find a consensus among more than two people what they feel "good" soundstage is

i think it's similarly subjective as where to sit/stand in a live concert would be: some prefer standing right in front of the stage, some prefer a bit far back, or some prefer just sitting in the drum seat

to me, there's no ultimate best. it all depends on my mood and the material at the time of listening

it is possible to mimic speaker-like positioning on headphones/in ears with crossfeed and (better yet) software manipulation, but still, to me it just to add options, not the ultimate and only goal

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

i think it's similarly subjective as where to sit/stand in a live concert would be: some prefer standing right in front of the stage, some prefer a bit far back, or some prefer just sitting in the drum seat

it is possible to mimic speaker-like positioning on headphones/in ears with crossfeed and (better yet) software manipulation, but still, to me it just to add options, not the ultimate and only goal

Funnily enough, I still have one of the HeadRoom amps with a hardware crossfeed. The 788 will do it via DIRAC. Not that helpful for a lot of modern stuff, but it works wonders on mono source material that was lazily hard-panned to stereo. Here's a page from the Total Airhead manual:

It's a subtle effect and really tastefully done. Unfortunately, this technique would be impossible to do at a hardware level and I haven't heard many software implementations that work this well.

Think I've mentioned it before, but if I want the best sound, I try to hang out right at the sound booth since that's probably where the venue was tuned. There's exceptions, of course, but it usually works out exceptionally well in my experience.

to me, there's no ultimate best. it all depends on my mood and the material at the time of listening

The more equipment I listen to, the more I realize exactly that. Yes, I just outed myself as one of those guys; calling myself an engineer should have been a dead giveaway. I listen to my gear. And it's a heck of a lot of fun. Have gotten lucky in finding out what I like as a result and it turns out, like you said, there's no ultimate something that has everything you want all the time.

Just got done with a marathon of that playlist on the Technics. Whole first half was okay, nothing exceptional, but then the live, acoustic, and classical started coming in and that was the wow moment. It made a lot more sense why they're tuned the way they are. That same lack of bass weight allows for a ton of subtle midrange detail to come through that would have otherwise been missed. I've probably listened to most of those songs about 50 times over...and yet they're presented so differently on those TWS.

 

[soullinker20]

technics az70w was a really nice tws and wowed me. i didn't mean to say the mtw/2 was better over it but what i would only prefer if i had to choose one. anyways i don't have them now as I've sold them and the new owner was very happy on the sound and ANC.
i am pretty much settled with my gemini and ue fits for now.

 

[Canabuc]

Psychoacoustics are so cool.

It's pretty impressive how much Sennheiser had to notch out of their sound signature to get that warmth without crushing all of the spatial cues. It's very 90s Bose-like...back before they started doing the whole lifestyle speaker thing. What I have a problem with is how that sort of sound signature is handled as volume goes up; trying to overcome the effects of equal-loudness contours. These TWS would be absolutely beautiful for some software management of it (kinda like an auto-gain for your volume that compensates based on the F-M curves). Haven't seen anybody mention that this is the route they're taking yet, but I'd market the hell out of it if I was. Geeks like me would go nuts over it.

Technics, on the other hand, just kinda does it the old school way and goes for a very W-shaped signature, minus the bottom-most peak. Also very 90s-like, but now you're looking at your, well, Technics gear. It had authority and strength, but you knew there were better options out there if you wanted a blanket of bass.

But the real trick is compensating for HRTF with in-ears since you're bypassing certain key parts of the ear that help make things sound as spacious as they do. Good tuners will know which upper-midrange and treble frequencies to excite in order to compensate for this. This is also why "flat" IEMs will most likely sound awful to your ears, because those excitation frequencies are being left completely untouched. What makes for a flat room speaker makes a terrible IEM. Was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around since I spend almost an equal amount of time in each hobby.

Not sure if everybody's familiar with this article, but knowing how to interpret a FR plot can save you from making some really bad purchasing decisions and avoid getting caught up in whatever flavor's popular this month. Also helps put a spotlight on how vague some of the terminology has gotten at this point. Absolute kudos to Crinacle for the time he spent putting content like this together.

Your listening notes are spot on for each pair, @Canabuc . Couldn't agree more in both cases.

All the talk about iems here makes me want to dabble. Don't want to invest much. Had so had some nice Shures which I broke.
Thinking of getting the following:

Sound magic A30 USB C Dac Amp to attach to my phone
And Blon Bl03.


Good entry level choices or would you recommend something else?

 

[Canabuc]

Something like this won't sound good at all with too much bloom. It'll overdrive half the track. Perfect track for the Technics, though.

Listened on the Fiil and sounds very nice. Somehow spacious yet intimate.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

All the talk about iems here makes me want to dabble. Don't want to invest much. Had so had some nice Shures which I broke.
Thinking of getting the following:

Sound magic A30 USB C Dac Amp to attach to my phone
And Blon Bl03.


Good entry level choices or would you recommend something else?

The A30 should do a pretty good job, but I've heard mixed things about fit with the Bl03. You can shoot me a PM and we can see if I can't help you figure out the right choice for your budget and preferences.

Listened on the Fiil and sounds very nice. Somehow spacious yet intimate.

Based on what I can hear, he's playing at a bar. What was awesome with the Technics was that you could hear individual people in the crowd and make out everything they were saying, yet there were these midrange-rich passages with the guitar that were so warm...hearing a contrast like that in the same headphone was pretty awesome. Really good rendition of the original track, too. Almost can't hear the original anymore.

 

[Canabuc]

The A30 should do a pretty good job, but I've heard mixed things about fit with the Bl03. You can shoot me a PM and we can see if I can't help you figure out the right choice for your budget and preferences.

Based on what I can hear, he's playing at a bar. What was awesome with the Technics was that you could hear individual people in the crowd and make out everything they were saying, yet there were these midrange-rich passages with the guitar that were so warm...hearing a contrast like that in the same headphone was pretty awesome. Really good rendition of the original track, too. Almost can't hear the original anymore.

I'm telling you you would love the Fiil. They have the bass that can get as dynamic as the JBL without coding the mids like the MTW2 do. All the while the Soundstage is wide the Treble is very realistic. By that I mean it isn't ruled of and can be harsh if that is how the track called for it.
I can't believe how good these sound at the piece. I prefer them over every earbud except jbl
where they match up pretty good and fit so much better.

There is a CC pro out now that takes up the feature set a notch that are very tempting.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

I'm telling you you would love the Fiil. They have the bass that can get as dynamic as the JBL without coding the mids like the MTW2 do. All the while the Soundstage is wide the Treble is very realistic. By that I mean it isn't ruled of and can be harsh if that is how the track called for it.
I can't believe how good these sound at the piece. I prefer them over every earbud except jbl
where they match up pretty good and fit so much better.

There is a CC pro out now that takes up the feature set a notch that are very tempting.

It sounds like you're a prime candidate for something that sticks to the Harman Target with a slightly warm tilt, then. I would suggest looking for single-DD IEMs, but understand there's a trade-off in that some DDs will need a good amount of power to keep them from getting too tinny in the upper midrange, which would mean you'd want to consider upping your power.

Think on a budget and PM me. I don't sell anything; just want to keep that sort of off-topic kind of discussion out of the thread.

 

[Peddler]

I've just got the Soundpeats T2 ANC buds - early impressions are very favourable - they produce a surprisingly good sound for such an inexpensive pair of headphones. More detailed review to follow soon.