[jant71]

Glad I'm not the only one. Can we please use better descriptors than "better" to describe what we prefer? Use cases and preferences vary so wildly.

We need some qualifiers.

I don't normally give Drop any mentions, but someone's going to find the deal in this:

https://drop.com/buy/final-audio-eva-2020-tws-iem

$235 ain't too bad.

BTW, Final announced the other day that they are also on the Qualcomm Snapdragon Sound bandwagon. I'm sure most Japan brands will outside of Sony. Final, AT, Aviot, Nuarl, JVC/Kenwood.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Though across a brand esp. driver size should correlate with larger and more surface area having the extension ability. When they measure the Club to 10 and the Live to 20 is not a good sign. Couple with lower price and you start to worry about the quality. Of course the Tour Pro+ is the one we expect to have the best SQ out of the newest models anyway.

Would you rather hear a bloated 10Hz or a clean 20? That's the reason I don't get the specs chase, especially with in-ears. So many variables. Had my fill of getting the "lowest lows" in my car audio days. Lots of ways to get there using the same driver. Fwiw, they have 3mm dynamics that'll play down to 10Hz as well, which is why I say the spec is misleading.

BTW, Final announced the other day that they are also on the Qualcomm Snapdragon Sound bandwagon. I'm sure most Japan brands will outside of Sony. Final, AT, Aviot, Nuarl, JVC/Kenwood.

Interesting. Haven't tried the EVA, but I imagine it's a solid piece of kit. Curious to see what the next release will be.

 

[clerkpalmer]

I have quite a few, including the LCD-2C, original Aeon Closed, HD6XX, HE-400i, and a Denon AH-D5000. I also have children and almost no ability to sit down and listen to music with both ears covered. Really wish I could enjoy them more.

The Audeze need current and lots of it, but the way they tuned their low end creates a really weird, bulbous stage where things aren't easily locateable outside of, say, the left bubble or right bubble. Eventually, I'll get my hands on a LCD-X to see if it makes up for what I'm missing. The bass texturing is fun, but I find my HE-400i to sound much more spacious. They don't image as well as the Aeon, but they're definitely more open. The Denon are just a giant leather recliner of a headphone and have a sound signature that is uncompromisingly fat.

Honestly, I reach for my 6XX more often than not. Have a 2.5mm balanced cable and a couple DAPs that'll give it enough juice to not sound so thin, so I still get to enjoy headphones, but I'm not tied to a chair. Despite the hype, it's still a HD650 and I think that deserves a place in every collection, if only to be used as a reference point. They're tuned really well.

Conversely, I'm not a huge fan of the Meze 99 Classics. Too much of a good thing (warmth), too little detail for my tastes. Super comfy, though.

Saw a really good writeup from Dunu in the DK-3001 thread about driver size correlating to bass quality more than quantity. Since the DD is basically coupled to your ear, the whole "no replacement for displacement" thing kinda goes out the window. The 6.8mm in the Club Pro+ is a really capable middle.

Seems like the IEM camp is getting equally polarizing. Dunu fit really shallow in my ears and the shells are so tiny that they don't hurt. At all. Might be worth looking into. 2001 for fun, 3001 Pro for critical listening.

As for TWS, that shallow fit is exactly what I like about the HiBy, Noble, UE, and MT. I can wear them all without fatigue and only the Noble is really an outlier in insertion depth. Really, only the Technics, Sennheiser, and Earfun tend to irritate my ears over time. While I can handle Ety deep, I don't always want to.

Thanks for sharing. I agree re: Meze. I hated them. Warm and dark. Returned them to Drop immediately. I always try traditional iems and return/sell them. Just don't like the fit and the cables (which contribute to the fit). The dunu looks intriguing. Do they work/fit with the BT20?

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Thanks for sharing. I agree re: Meze. I hated them. Warm and dark. Returned them to Drop immediately. I always try traditional iems and return/sell them. Just don't like the fit and the cables (which contribute to the fit). The dunu looks intriguing. Do they work/fit with the BT20?

Yep. Just need a MMCX connection. Dunu uses a patented variation on it for their cable, but they're compatible with MMCX as well. Best cable I've used yet, though, fwiw. The quick-connect idea for plug ends is genius and this is the first cable that literally disappears on my ears. Won't have to worry about that if you're using the BT20, though. Should work with the Fiio as well.

 

[dweaver]

It’s feels like the resolution is a bit higher with the technics , but they are close to me

I owned the original MTW and find the AZ70 sound better with more detail. But it really boils down to sonic preference. The AZ70 is less warm sounding and has slightly more sub-bass with less mid-bass.

 

[cr3ativ3]

I owned the original MTW and find the AZ70 sound better with more detail. But it really boils down to sonic preference. The AZ70 is less warm sounding and has slightly more sub-bass with less mid-bass.

Of cause , all is a question about preferences in the end .

 

[clerkpalmer]

Yep. Just need a MMCX connection. Dunu uses a patented variation on it for their cable, but they're compatible with MMCX as well. Best cable I've used yet, though, fwiw. The quick-connect idea for plug ends is genius and this is the first cable that literally disappears on my ears. Won't have to worry about that if you're using the BT20, though. Should work with the Fiio as well.

Low and behold I just found a nice BT20s with mmcx connectors in my junk drawer (forgot I bought these). Any other recommendations for synergy and a shallowish for?

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Of cause , all is a question about preferences in the end .

Bingo.

Learn about what design decisions influence your preferences and you will become a much smarter consumer. In my experience, the CX400BT (which reviewers claim are sonically equivalent to the MTW2) have way too much midrange energy. I don't want to believe Sennheiser carried over their classically stereotypical "veil" to their TWS, but it's highly possible that something about that EQ treatment just produces very rich and addicting vocals. Sadly falls apart in a lot of other categories Doesn't mean they're technically incorrect for having that veil; just means you should be aware of what effect it will have.

The Technics, on the other hand, have virtually no bloat from the midbass through the midrange (though you can re-inject some of it by activating ANC or HearThrough). That's why they have a little more sparkle and sense of air around all the instruments. The tradeoff is real.

Unfortunately, this hobby has a ton of subjective language that has been adopted over the years as a means of objective measure. To date, I cannot find a consensus among more than two people what they feel "good" soundstage is. Most have been misled into thinking they need to hear a speaker-like positioning on a set of in-ears. Can't defy physics, man. You can have fun with certain psychoacoustic tricks, but it's still a battle of physics.

Low and behold I just found a nice BT20s with mmcx connectors in my junk drawer (forgot I bought these). Any other recommendations for synergy and a shallowish for?

For the IEM? Haven't found shallower than the DUNU DK yet. Especially with some Auvio wide-bores, they're just pillows sitting in my ears. I cannot believe they can fit 4 BAs and a DD into these shells. Barely looks like there's room for the DD as is.

Moondrop Starfield will probably have a shallow fit similar to the Kanas Pro and are potentially easier to drive. Which you decide on is going to come down to whether you want Harman warm or Harman new (or VDSF, according to Moondrop themselves). I tend to favor the Kanas Pro, but they have a very specific sound signature and warm sources can make them outright syrupy on some material and need a fair amount of power to really wake up the DD inside. May not be the best combo. Don't want Harman at all? Don't do Moondrop; it's their thing.

Perhaps the MEST MINI if you're willing to give bone conduction a shot? They use QDC connectors (2-pin with a bulge instead of a recess), but a little secret: they'll work just fine with standard 2-pin. Not everybody's a fan of the tuning, though. Maybe used is the way to go there. Shooting myself in the foot if I decide to get these later, but here's a really good deal on 'em:
https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...ver-hifi-iems-like-new?variant=39321125355582

Not sure what else there could be aside from those two, but my P1 should arrive tomorrow; I imagine they'll probably end up in the "medium" depth category, relatively speaking.

 

[clerkpalmer]

Bingo.

Learn about what design decisions influence your preferences and you will become a much smarter consumer. In my experience, the CX400BT (which reviewers claim are sonically equivalent to the MTW2) have way too much midrange energy. I don't want to believe Sennheiser carried over their classically stereotypical "veil" to their TWS, but it's highly possible that something about that EQ treatment just produces very rich and addicting vocals. Sadly falls apart in a lot of other categories Doesn't mean they're technically incorrect for having that veil; just means you should be aware of what effect it will have.

The Technics, on the other hand, have virtually no bloat from the midbass through the midrange (though you can re-inject some of it by activating ANC or HearThrough). That's why they have a little more sparkle and sense of air around all the instruments. The tradeoff is real, but that doesn't mean one headphone is

Unfortunately, this hobby has a ton of subjective language that has been adopted over the years as a means of objective measure. To date, I cannot find a consensus among more than two people what they feel "good" soundstage is. Most have been misled into thinking they need to hear a speaker-like positioning on a set of in-ears. Can't defy physics, man. You can have fun with certain psychoacoustic tricks, but it's still a battle of physics.

For the IEM? Haven't found shallower than the DUNU DK yet. Especially with some Auvio wide-bores, they're just pillows sitting in my ears. I cannot believe they can fit 4 BAs and a DD into these shells. Barely looks like there's room for the DD as is.

Moondrop Starfield will probably have a shallow fit similar to the Kanas Pro and are potentially easier to drive. Which you decide on is going to come down to whether you want Harman warm or Harman new (or VDSF, according to Moondrop themselves). I tend to favor the Kanas Pro, but they have a very specific sound signature and warm sources can make them outright syrupy on some material and need a fair amount of power to really wake up the DD inside. May not be the best combo. Don't want Harman at all? Don't do Moondrop; it's their thing.

Perhaps the MEST MINI if you're willing to give bone conduction a shot? They use QDC connectors (2-pin with a bulge instead of a recess), but a little secret: they'll work just fine with standard 2-pin. Not everybody's a fan of the tuning, though. Maybe used is the way to go there. Shooting myself in the foot if I decide to get these later, but here's a really good deal on 'em:
https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...ver-hifi-iems-like-new?variant=39321125355582

Not sure what else there could be aside from those two, but my P1 should arrive tomorrow; I imagine they'll probably end up in the "medium" depth category, relatively speaking.

you and i are on the same page. I had the KXXS paired with the BT20 before but they are not a good match due to power requirements. Maybe the starfield is better.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

you and i are on the same page. I had the KXXS paired with the BT20 before but they are not a good match due to power requirements. Maybe the starfield is better.

Perhaps. We can carry this conversation on in PM if you'd like; don't want to make anybody grumpy for going too OT.

Pulled out the MT today after reluctantly putting down the DK-3001 Pro. Woah, my ears need time to adjust.

 

[bladefd]

25 percent off sale and M&D. MW08 excluded. Which is a bummer and kinda annoying. Don’t advertise a friends and family sale and exclude your most exciting product. Rant over.

They are probably trying to move their older generation products and get them out to make room for their latest & best in mw08

 

[bladefd]

Yep. Just need a MMCX connection. Dunu uses a patented variation on it for their cable, but they're compatible with MMCX as well. Best cable I've used yet, though, fwiw. The quick-connect idea for plug ends is genius and this is the first cable that literally disappears on my ears. Won't have to worry about that if you're using the BT20, though. Should work with the Fiio as well.

Do those wires work with pc if you have Bluetooth on it? I wonder if I can make my hd600 run through bt or if I'm asking for too much

 

[clerkpalmer]

Perhaps. We can carry this conversation on in PM if you'd like; don't want to make anybody grumpy for going too OT.

Pulled out the MT today after reluctantly putting down the DK-3001 Pro. Woah, my ears need time to adjust.

I think BT20 fits well within the topic matter of this thread but in any event gonna look for a starfield and dunu in the classifieds. As always appreciate the advice.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

They are probably trying to move their older generation products and get them out to make room for their latest & best in mw08

Bummer is realizing these sales prices are probably closer to the actual cost of manufacture and you've been subsidizing the cost of their R&D (or, in lazier companies, their vacations) so far. It's a major issue I have with the way pricing is set up in the audio world. Some companies are better than others about it. Markup in analog/home theater is absolutely insane.

Do those wires work with pc if you have Bluetooth on it? I wonder if I can make my hd600 run through bt or if I'm asking for too much

Sadly, no. Nowhere near enough power. If you want mobile HD600s, get a beefy DAP. That R5 Saber is capable of 1W per channel at 32 ohms and drove the 6XX beautifully. I was honestly shocked. Drop makes a 2.5mm cable, fwiw.

I mean you could also try something like the Qudelix 5K; it might have enough power out of the balanced to make the 600 work, but these TRN adapters won't cut it. They're made for IEMs, anyway.

I think BT20 fits well within the topic matter of this thread but in any event gonna look for a starfield and dunu in the classifieds. As always appreciate the advice.

There's usually a Starfield a day popping up here. Just don't buy from anybody in NJ; long story.

 

[miserybeforethemusic]

Another couple MT EQ presets for people to play with. Keep in mind I've got the Final tips on.



Still pretty bass-heavy, even with Custom 3, but any further reduction has too much of an effect on the midrange. This will do for now and it's a lot cleaner than Balanced to my ears. Nice to have an EQ that doesn't add audible distortion, even when pegged.