[Omphalopsychite]

Thanks fuzzy1969, HideousPride, davidcotton, Kirosia, and EveTan for your comments.

This morning I spent some time listening to the C4s & F111s using my Defy+ smartphone. The Defy+ may not be the highest quality source but it appears to drive the C4s ok and enables me to better compare the two IEMs.

The C4s have more bass but can't match the treble of the F111s. The difference in the sound signatures really changes the voices and the balance between the instruments in a piece like the Schubert String Quintet. The effect is quite significant. With the C4s it sounds like the quintet haven't gotten their ensemble playing quite coordinated. Based on what I've heard so far, I prefer the sound signature of the F111s.
 
Still there's a nagging doubt that some of the differences may be due to the source.

Unfortunately there's no one I know with a DAP to borrow (not a big item with the senior citizen crowd) so I've ordered a Clip+ as HideousPride and others suggested. It should remove any doubts I have about differences being due to source.

Thanks again!

O.

 

[EveTan]

Quote:

Thanks fuzzy1969, HideousPride, davidcotton, Kirosia, and EveTan for your comments.

This morning I spent some time listening to the C4s & F111s using my Defy+ smartphone. The Defy+ may not be the highest quality source but it appears to drive the C4s ok and enables me to better compare the two IEMs.

The C4s have more bass but can't match the treble of the F111s. The difference in the sound signatures really changes the voices and the balance between the instruments in a piece like the Schubert String Quintet. The effect is quite significant. With the C4s it sounds like the quintet haven't gotten their ensemble playing quite coordinated. Based on what I've heard so far, I prefer the sound signature of the F111s.
 
Still there's a nagging doubt that some of the differences may be due to the source.

Unfortunately there's no one I know with a DAP to borrow (not a big item with the senior citizen crowd) so I've ordered a Clip+ as HideousPride and others suggested. It should remove any doubts I have about differences being due to source.

Thanks again!

O.

If you do get a chance to go into an audio store, you should demo some hi end amps to go with the C4s to perhaps remove more doubts. While i found the O2 to be a poor pairing, the Sennheiser HDVD800 dac/amp demo taht the store had worked wonders, improving not only their Hd800 but also my C4. The exact details i don't quite remember, but it was satisfiying.

 

[Marleybob217]

Quote:

 
Perhaps, definately the C4s and J3 arent't a happy marriage.

It's not that surprising, the cowon J3s aren't exactly powerhouses. I'd say look into hisoundaudio players, the cheaper models come with about double the output power of the J3. 
You could also get a portable amp, wait for the fiio x3 or maybe get something from colorfly.
 
I also believe the J3 has an output impedance of 16 ohms (not sure), and the C4s are rated at 29 ohms. Considering damping, the J3 should have an output impedance of 29/8 to make the J3s sound good.
Get a player/amp with the lowest output impedence! 
 
Read this if you didn't already knew this: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meridian-explorer-case-study-effects-output-impedance

 

[fuzzy1969]

If the c4's anything like the c5 sensitivity wise (although Frogbeats dont publish this) then some more mw's would help and a low output impedance, I had a samsung s3 my favourite compatable dac/amp at the present is Jan Meiers PCstep although it might not be to everybodys taste. I found the soundstage from the j3 quite narrow and the bass rolled off.

 

[HideousPride]

Quote:

Unfortunately there's no one I know with a DAP to borrow (not a big item with the senior citizen crowd) so I've ordered a Clip+ as HideousPride and others suggested. It should remove any doubts I have about differences being due to source.

Thanks again!

O.

Hopefully the source makes a difference!

 Fingers crossed for you.
 
Would be curious to hear how loud people listen to their Frogbeats CIEMs at, I've found that the C4 is most enjoyable for me at lower volumes - have it at around -40dB volume setting on my Clip+. When I have to turn it up to -25dB or so in loud places, I find the listening to be more strenuous.
 
Compare this to high end headphones at home, where I listen at a relatively loud volume (comparatively). We had a mini-meet in Dallas with a lot of open cans on hand, and there was a friendly chap listening to the LCD-3s at such a high volume that I could clearly hear HIS music playing while listening to music playing on my setup a couple feet away.

 

[LCMusicLover]

FWIW -- I've been very happy w/ the C4s through my RSA Shadow.

 

[itshot]

Quote:

 -40dB volume setting on my Clip+. When I have to turn it up to -25dB or so in loud places.

Wow, -40dB is already pushing it for me on the clip+ lol... I'm usually at like -50dB or greater. 

 

[HideousPride]

Quote:

Wow, -40dB is already pushing it for me on the clip+ lol... I'm usually at like -50dB or greater. 

If you end up having the same result when you plug in your Frogbeats, I'll have to conclude that I'm likely on the more deaf side of things. :'(
 
-40dB seems to be the sweet spot for me. -30dB starts hurting my ears on prolonged use, but I remember -50dB I'd be straining to catch certain passages of music.

 

[Cebi]

How long after you received the pic of your completed C4s did they actually arrive?

 

[LCMusicLover]

Quote:

How long after you received the pic of your completed C4s did they actually arrive?

 
I never got pictures -- just heard they were going to ship & then received them 3 (I think) days later.

 

[Cebi]

I got an email with the pictures saying that they would be sent yesterday or today, and that I would get a shipping confirmation... nothing yet. :/
 

 

[itshot]

Quote:

I got an email with the pictures saying that they would be sent yesterday or today, and that I would get a shipping confirmation... nothing yet. :/
 

x2

 

[glassmaple]

Quote:

I got an email with the pictures saying that they would be sent yesterday or today, and that I would get a shipping confirmation... nothing yet. :/
 

 
 
Yep, I got nothing after the picture was sent either

 

[Omphalopsychite]

Quote:

If you do get a chance to go into an audio store...

 
Unfortunately there are no audio stores anywhere near where I live.  It would require a couple days travel and a hotel stay.  The Clip+ will have to do at this point.
 
Quote:

It's not that surprising, the cowon J3s aren't exactly powerhouses. I'd say look into hisoundaudio players, the cheaper models come with about double the output power of the J3. 
You could also get a portable amp, wait for the fiio x3 or maybe get something from colorfly.
 
I also believe the J3 has an output impedance of 16 ohms (not sure), and the C4s are rated at 29 ohms. Considering damping, the J3 should have an output impedance of 29/8 to make the J3s sound good.
Get a player/amp with the lowest output impedence! 

 
Thanks for the info on impedence.
 
I'd hate to spend money experimenting with different DAPs, amps, etc. trying to find a really good match for the C4s only to find I still liked the F111s better. The Clip+ doesn't have to show the C4s at their absolute best, only provide accurate enough sound to compare them to my F111s.
 
Quote:

If the c4's anything like the c5 sensitivity wise (although Frogbeats dont publish this) then some more mw's would help and a low output impedance, I had a samsung s3 my favourite compatable dac/amp at the present is Jan Meiers PCstep although it might not be to everybodys taste. I found the soundstage from the j3 quite narrow and the bass rolled off.

 
The sensitivity of the C4s seems comparable to the F111s which are significantly more sensitive than my PL50s.  The soundstage of the F111/J3 is very good. The bass is quite clean but doesn't go really deep but that could be due to the F111s.  Overall the sound is exceptionally good.
 
Quote:

Hopefully the source makes a difference!

 Fingers crossed for you.
 
Would be curious to hear how loud people listen to their Frogbeats CIEMs at, I've found that the C4 is most enjoyable for me at lower volumes - have it at around -40dB volume setting on my Clip+. When I have to turn it up to -25dB or so in loud places, I find the listening to be more strenuous.
 
Compare this to high end headphones at home, where I listen at a relatively loud volume (comparatively). We had a mini-meet in Dallas with a lot of open cans on hand, and there was a friendly chap listening to the LCD-3s at such a high volume that I could clearly hear HIS music playing while listening to music playing on my setup a couple feet away.

 
Thanks HideousPride. 
 
I don't listen to music at high volumes.  One thing I noticed right away I noticed right away with the F111s is they were more sensitive and had significantly greater dynamic range than my old PL50s. In some symphonic works there are soft passages that I can barely hear when the loudest passages are approaching too loud. It'll be interesting to compare the C4s when the Clip+ arrives in a week or so.
 
 
Quote:

FWIW -- I've been very happy w/ the C4s through my RSA Shadow.

 
Thanks for the info.
 
Quote:

How long after you received the pic of your completed C4s did they actually arrive?

 
Got the pic on 18 March, received the C4s 3 April, 16 days later. However the shipment did get hung up due to bad weather.

 

[fuzzy1969]

Only comparing the sensitivity of the c5's to she shure 535's which are super sensitive, I have to wind the volume up around another 20-25% to get comparable volumes on the J3, seems more on a proper amp.