[3nenbgumi]

Excuse me for the sudden question, uelover, but aside from that weird dip around the 4kHz region, do you perceive the soundstage and imaging to be as claimed, i.e. vast soundstage with superior imaging?

 

[uelover]

Quote:

Excuse me for the sudden question, uelover, but aside from that weird dip around the 4kHz region, do you perceive the soundstage and imaging to be as claimed, i.e. vast soundstage with superior imaging?

 
The soundstage and imaging is the way it should be - if the soundstage gets any wider everything will be too dispersed and out of place. But don't expect open headphone/speaker type of soundstage/imaging. Things should not be blown out of proportion and when compared to other iems out there, there are others that are equally capable in this department.
 
Regarding the 4Khz dip, it is really getting onto me. I felt that I have been robbed of something in my life. The void at the top end is too apparent. Everything goes up till around 2khz when things started disappearing.
 
I ended up turning on the iTunes EQ and use the treble booster. This is the first time I have used the iTunes EQ and also the first time I have ever used a treble booster on any headphone/iem. I know this sounds like a sin, but by doing so, I felt that I could retrieve part of what that have been robbed of me.

 

[fuzzy1969]

I think the 4 khz dip, was the suckout that showed up on the frequency graph, something Im pretty sure LFF commented he couldn't hear.

 

[LyPForever]

From what i've heard, both UERM and my C4s don't have any dip. in my opinion, the only thing of UERM  which i love more is the treble. it has more sparkle, shimmer and thinner than C4s. For other aspect, i still prefer frogbeat C4 over UERM. UERM is also extremely sensitive to poor recorded music sources.
 
In my opinion, i heard a lot of top-tier universal IEM and some flagship custom-iem. but i don't find any one of these out there can beat my c4s soundstage and image.

 

[Rakan]

Quote:

 
Things should not be blown out of proportion and when compared to other iems out there, there are others that are equally capable in this department.
 

 
Very interesting! I would like to know some IEMs in the same price range that are capable of reproducing the Soundstage/Imaging as good as the C4s. Hope i have a chance to compare these IEMs with the C4s. 

 

[uelover]

Quote:

From what i've heard, both UERM and my C4s don't have any dip. in my opinion, the only thing of UERM  which i love more is the treble. it has more sparkle, shimmer and thinner than C4s. For other aspect, i still prefer frogbeat C4 over UERM. UERM is also extremely sensitive to poor recorded music sources.
 
In my opinion, i heard a lot of top-tier universal IEM and some flagship custom-iem. but i don't find any one of these out there can beat my c4s soundstage and image.

 
I find the C4, while fantastic from the lows all the way to 2khz, seems to fall off after that. Its sound will certainly appeal to many given its tight and punchy bass and full-bodied sound. But the highs could really be better. I am not sure if you have heard of the ER4P/S or other iem/headphone/speaker that are accurate sounding to gauge the full extent of what is missing on the C4.
 
I am waiting for David to reply me if C4 is supposed to sound this way or if there is something wrong with my unit.
 
Being revealing about poor recording is a good thing. It means at least the IEM is capable of reproducing everything that is thrown to it. I already have other iems for poor recordings that will mask away the imperfections.
 
Quote:

Very interesting! I would like to know some IEMs in the same price range that are capable of reproducing the Soundstage/Imaging as good as the C4s. Hope i have a chance to compare these IEMs with the C4s. 

 
I find the soundstage/imaging to be more impressive on the TG!334 than the C4. The soundstage and imaging on my ATH CK90PROMKII is already scarily close to that of the C4, and it is less than 20% the price of the C4. 
 
There is also the JHs.

 

[LyPForever]

Quote:

 
I find the C4, while fantastic from the lows all the way to 2khz, seems to fall off after that. Its sound will certainly appeal to many given its tight and punchy bass and full-bodied sound. But the highs could really be better. I am not sure if you have heard of the ER4P/S or other iem/headphone/speaker that are accurate sounding to gauge the full extent of what is missing on the C4.
 
I am waiting for David to reply me if C4 is supposed to sound this way or if there is something wrong with my unit.
 
Being revealing about poor recording is a good thing. It means at least the IEM is capable of reproducing everything that is thrown to it. I already have other iems for poor recordings that will mask away the imperfections.
 
 
I find the soundstage/imaging to be more impressive on the TG!334 than the C4. The soundstage and imaging on my ATH CK90PROMKII is already scarily close to that of the C4, and it is less than 20% the price of the C4. 
 
There is also the JHs.

 
Basically, treble is one of the most important factor affect the soundstage , if the treble of IEM is bad, you will never have a good soundstage. indeed, you will find most of IEM has good treble or focus on high-mid tend to have a big soundstage, better clairity than bassy iem or bad treble IEM. i own the fitear togo 334 too but i don't think soundstage and image of 334 better than C4s

 

[Hawaiiancerveza]

Does the C5 have the suck out like the c4's?

 

[uelover]

Quote:

 
Basically, treble is one of the most important factor affect the soundstage , if the treble of IEM is bad, you will never have a good soundstage. indeed, you will find most of IEM has good treble or focus on high-mid tend to have a big soundstage, better clairity than bassy iem or bad treble IEM. i own the fitear togo 334 too but i don't think soundstage and image of 334 better than C4s

 
It depends on the mix as well as the type of instruments in the track. For instance, I can have a track that focuses on drums, bass guitars and other FX that are low frequencies centric so treble is not an important factor in affecting the soundstage.
 
Normally, instruments like xylophones, tambourines are hard panned to either side since high frequencies are easier to be picked up by our ears. Also, ambiance in live music will lose the size of its perceived space if the treble is shelved.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the soundstage and imaging on the C4 is bad. I am saying that there is nothing spectacular about it. It is important to not hype it.

 

[Mython]

Quote:

 
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the soundstage and imaging on the C4 is bad. I am saying that there is nothing spectacular about it. It is important to not hype it.

 
 
Much the same could be said of the UM Miracle, which, like the C4, also employs Knowles TWFK for treble duties (although whether or not they are proprietary TWFK versions is another matter, of course!

)

 

[LyPForever]

Quote:

 
It depends on the mix as well as the type of instruments in the track. For instance, I can have a track that focuses on drums, bass guitars and other FX that are low frequencies centric so treble is not an important factor in affecting the soundstage.
 
Normally, instruments like xylophones, tambourines are hard panned to either side since high frequencies are easier to be picked up by our ears. Also, ambiance in live music will lose the size of its perceived space if the treble is shelved.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the soundstage and imaging on the C4 is bad. I am saying that there is nothing spectacular about it. It is important to not hype it.

i don't think so, all the thing you're talking about is the quality of music sources not the quality of the IEM or headphone. For example, you can find some well mastered track with big soundstage and put your earpod on and it's big still but never can bigger than some higher level IEM
 
I know you don't say the soundstage and imaging on the C4 is bad . i just want to point out something relate to the soundstage of C4s
 
try this one ) i've uploaded these music file which i bought from itune directly. You can download and put it in your DAP to test )
http://www.mediafire.com/?whrk7sy2322kl9t
 

 
 
 

 

[itshot]

that emmanuel song is pretty awesome

 

[kenz]

Oh my. For me, Lucia literally upstaged Chris with Emmanuel.

 
Can feel every bit of emotion from Lucia's part compared to a more passive (though still emotional) rendition from Chris.

 

[Mython]

Quote:

Oh my. For me, Lucia literally upstaged Chris with Emmanuel.

 
Can feel every bit of emotion from Lucia's part compared to a more passive (though still emotional) rendition from Chris.

 
 
Yes, but would you have said that if you were blindfolded?

 

[uelover]

Quote:

i don't think so, all the thing you're talking about is the quality of music sources not the quality of the IEM or headphone. For example, you can find some well mastered track with big soundstage and put your earpod on and it's big still but never can bigger than some higher level IEM

 
I think you misunderstood what I said. I am responding to your comment that 'if the treble of IEM is bad, you will never have a good soundstage' by pointing to you that there are tracks which you do not need your iem to be able to accurately reproduce the treble but could still determine the potential of that iem soundstaging/imaging capabilities. Treble will help to make things more apparent.