[Jabbah]

Originally Posted by Hutnicks /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Post race drivers room encounters are really starting to become obvious. Shake Nicos hand and go over and talk to Hamilton seems to be more and more common. I cannot tell if Nico just has no friends on the grid of if Ham has them all in thrall.

 
I've noticed this and commented about it whilst watching it on TV. Does seem like Nico is being shunned and ignored by the other drivers.

 

[Hutnicks]

   
I've noticed this and commented about it whilst watching it on TV. Does seem like Nico is being shunned and ignored by the other drivers.

It's going to be interesting when all these guys retire, to read the inevitable bio's they churn out. Now more than ever there seems to be a lot more going on under the skin and a few more books like Webbers in the future may clear up some of the puzzling behaviors.

 

[MuZo2]

 Post race drivers room encounters are really starting to become obvious. Shake Nicos hand and go over and talk to Hamilton seems to be more and more common. I cannot tell if Nico just has no friends on the grid of if Ham has them all in thrall. I mean, if he can dig some personality out of Vettel, thats an achievement in itself. y it.
 

May be he sticks with other Germans Hulk , Vettel, Wehrlein ?

 

[Hutnicks]

  May be he sticks with other Germans Hulk , Vettel, Wehrlein ?

It's Vettel in particular who seems to be in Hamiltons camp this year.

 

[Jabbah]

On Hamilton's drive; to get to 5th position at the red flag, the only drivers he overtook on track were: Nasr, Ericsson, Kvyat and Ocon. After the restart he only had to battle with Alonso and Hulkenberg for 3rd.

 

[MuZo2]

Should be ok when they drive for different team in future, look at Hamilton & Alonso now.

 

[Hutnicks]

  On Hamilton's drive; to get to 5th position at the red flag, the only drivers he overtook on track were: Nasr, Ericsson, Kvyat and Ocon. After the restart he only had to battle with Alonso and Hulkenberg for 3rd.

I think this all started as a question of whether Merc is sandbagging or not.  The rate at which Nico pulled Ric would seem to say yes, but the fastest laps and ease of movement through the field with Ham indicates no. Unless he had the engine mods and Nico did not which I find unlikely. It's still a puzzler to me when tyre deg gets factored into the mix. Hopefully Italy provides a more accurate picture. I really want to see a Merc/Scud/Deadbull conflaguration with an FI chaser.
 

  Should be ok when they drive for different team in future, look at Hamilton & Alonso now.

To be honest they both stated ages ago that it was the McManagement that caused the strain between them. Hamiltons latest blurb about it being a shame if Alonso retires and how he really wants to race him head to head again can be taken several different ways.
 
 While in a way I feel bad for Nico being ostracized, he's in a do or die position this year. If he cannot get it done with that all dominant car in the three years he had it, the grid is going to be looking at him as a perpetual number 2 driver. He will pick up from Massa there next year when Felipe retires. That is going to limit his options in a monumental way, particularly with younger faster drivers now entering the fray. Should Merc's fortunes decline in any way, his next job may well be in DTM. F1 can be a cruel sport (look at the way Button gets treated and he has a WDC) and not converting a car that dominant to a WDC is a huge red flag. Careerwise, it becomes the value of the driver being to score constructors points rather than bring home the WDC title. That puts you forever into the second banana role. Lets be honest, that is really not a terrible way to make a living, but it generally means that barring some very exceptional circumstances a WDC is off the menu.

 

[oqvist]

It was quite clear. If you can create a gap of 4 seconds that easy surely you are sandbagging the rest of the race. Hamilton and Nico have both done it in the past. Hamilton probably didn´t feel confident doing the entire race in safe mode starting last so his pace was probably more honest.
 
Ferrari will go all in so will be interesting. Maybe why they suffer here they are already setting the car up for Monza. However I am still sure Kimi had it not been for the max, vettel sandwich would get a great result. That is just as far from Merc but probably stealing second from Ricciardo.

 

[Jabbah]

  It was quite clear. If you can create a gap of 4 seconds that easy surely you are sandbagging the rest of the race. Hamilton and Nico have both done it in the past. Hamilton probably didn´t feel confident doing the entire race in safe mode starting last so his pace was probably more honest.

 
Is that the right use of the term "sandbagging"? Whenever it is normally used it is with respect to hiding the performance of the car, either during testing or free practice. Managing a lead is not the same especially when the performance has been shown pulling out the lead to start with. Given that there are limited PU components, everyone will manage the gap once in the lead unless they need to protect against someone on a different strategy. This is unfortunately the state of F1 currently, it's all about managing tyres, PU and fuel, rather than letting them extract the most out of the equipment. Fastest laps are usually set by someone on a different strategy to the leaders when they have a fresh set of boots and low fuel trying to catch someone. I expect Ricciardo was not pushing as hard as he could at the end of the race when it was clear that there was no way he could catch Rosberg either.

 

[Hutnicks]

Horner was on him to mind the tyres. That was one of the reasons Lew figured he had a shot in the closing laps. Then again, who's to say Horners advice wasn't a red herring as well

 

[oqvist]

   
Is that the right use of the term "sandbagging"? Whenever it is normally used it is with respect to hiding the performance of the car, either during testing or free practice. Managing a lead is not the same especially when the performance has been shown pulling out the lead to start with. Given that there are limited PU components, everyone will manage the gap once in the lead unless they need to protect against someone on a different strategy. This is unfortunately the state of F1 currently, it's all about managing tyres, PU and fuel, rather than letting them extract the most out of the equipment. Fastest laps are usually set by someone on a different strategy to the leaders when they have a fresh set of boots and low fuel trying to catch someone. I expect Ricciardo was not pushing as hard as he could at the end of the race when it was clear that there was no way he could catch Rosberg either.

Merc is always sandbagging in practise and optimize for race because they are unthreatened in qualification but sandbagging in race only in term of not doing anything extra then take the checkered flag first on safest engine mode and minimal wear on the car and driver. I wonder if he even had trouble keeping heat in the tires due to red bulls non competiveness

 

[Jabbah]

  Horner was on him to mind the tyres. That was one of the reasons Lew figured he had a shot in the closing laps. Then again, who's to say Horners advice wasn't a red herring as well

 
I'm certain that has gone on a lot from certain teams. A more subtle form of sending out your pit crew to fake a pit stop.

 

[Hutnicks]

   
I'm certain that has gone on a lot from certain teams. A more subtle form of sending out your pit crew to fake a pit stop.

I actually do not mind the mind games. F1 should be more of a Go initiative than a chessgame.
 
Then again this is the series that decided to bring back skirts for 17. What could possibly go wrong?(Verstuppen, that one is aimed at you)

 

[oqvist]

 
I actually do not mind the mind games. F1 should be more of a Go initiative than a chessgame.
 
Then again this is the series that decided to bring back skirts for 17. What could possibly go wrong?(Verstuppen, that one is aimed at you)

I think I missed two references. Do Go referr to Pokemon Go? And bring back skirts for 17?
 
If they would ban the radio and let the drivers do the strategy it would be interesting. There would be more wrong decisions then

 

[WraithApe]

  I think I missed two references. Do Go referr to Pokemon Go? And bring back skirts for 17?
 
If they would ban the radio and let the drivers do the strategy it would be interesting. There would be more wrong decisions then

 
I think this refers to ground-effect skirts returning to the cars next season and the game of Go. 

 
I'm with you on limiting strategy radio messaging - I only wanted them to be able to communicate technical setup stuff but not 'coach' the drivers at all. When they re-instated radio earlier in the season, they didn't make that distinction.