[mulveling]

I used to own a yggy. My current dac is a Sony Das-R1 with schiit eitr.

I guess I need to pick something other than yggy then. I have an ecp dac as well. Really nice stuff I just do not think many enthusiasts have heard of ecp where most have heard of yggy.

You did an excellent job picking Sota. They are the only modern day turntable maker out of a good 8 or 9 brands that I like. Funk firm LSD table deserves a mention but it is cheating a bit as you have to put it together yourself.

Ah, very cool that you have an ECP DAC too! They are rare. Mine was a prototype, so yours is almost certainly a better model. Yes, ECP Audio makes some of the very best gear today, but he doesn't have shills and paid reviewers promoting him -- just the small group of extremely satisfied customers. I don't think Doug wants to stamp out stuff in high volumes anyways.

And wow, VERY beautiful vintage Sony DAC you have there! It must sound amazing. I definitely wouldn't bother with a Yggy if I were you.

I love this SOTA Star; it's what kicked off my love for vinyl 10 years ago. I have a Clearaudio Master Innovation in the speaker rig that sounds great, but obviously SOTA is where the value's at. The Clearaudio tables also require an additional chunk of funds towards significant stands/isolation, whereas the SOTA is happy atop almost anything, with its spring suspension to smooth things out.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I haven't had the chance to listen to the SR-009, because where I live apparently where I found that they are selling them are sort of elitists so they don't let anyone listen to these headphones.
I wanted to listen to them because ultimately I wanted to get the best headphones possible without having to go through upgrading cycles, but when you do your upgrades sometimes it's even good because you get to hear just how much of a difference the different parameters in your setup make.
Maybe at some point I'll get to hear them, but generally I've also heard that they are not good friends of dust + water or rather even they are enemies of the elements

I went the opposite way...sold my SR-009s and kept the Utopia. I prefer the dynamics and tonality of the Utopia/DAVE combo.

 

[336881]

Ah, very cool that you have an ECP DAC too! They are rare. Mine was a prototype, so yours is almost certainly a better model. Yes, ECP Audio makes some of the very best gear today, but he doesn't have shills and paid reviewers promoting him -- just the small group of extremely satisfied customers. I don't think Doug wants to stamp out stuff in high volumes anyways.

And wow, VERY beautiful vintage Sony DAC you have there! It must sound amazing. I definitely wouldn't bother with a Yggy if I were you.

I love this SOTA Star; it's what kicked off my love for vinyl 10 years ago. I have a Clearaudio Master Innovation in the speaker rig that sounds great, but obviously SOTA is where the value's at. The Clearaudio tables also require an additional chunk of funds towards significant stands/isolation, whereas the SOTA is happy atop almost anything, with its spring suspension to smooth things out.

The ECP dac is wonderful. The Sony schiit dac is just a bit more to my liking. The yggy was a while ago.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I went the opposite way...sold my SR-009s and kept the Utopia. I prefer the dynamics and tonality of the Utopia/DAVE combo.

wow. that's a pretty big move. I can dig it though. Just still a big change though ha

 

[Justin_Time]

and presumably that improvement in the quality of your source comes with a more expensive price tag

Of course!

While a lot of price escalation is just hype and greed, my guess is that we have reached—no, passed—the point of dimishing return with headphones a while back perhaps around $500, just to pick a number for the sake of comparison. After that, each time you try to improve the sound quality a little, you have to roughly double the price. And so it goes, $1,000 to $2000, to $4,000 with the Utopia, HE1000, LCD-4etc. Also, each time the price doubles, you sell fewer uniits, so the production cost for each unit goes up, so you have to increase the selling price again, then fewer people still can afford the product, so you sell fewer units, so the production cost goes up again and the selling price goes up more and so on and so forth. Thus, we arrive at the state of high-end home Audio today. Hype, greed and also, sadly, the mindless pursuit of the absolute sound price be damned, have reduced that industry to a mere shadow of itself ‘cause only a billionaire can afford a pair of $ 50,000 speakers hooked up to a pair of monoblocks amps at $25,000 each by a pair of $15, 000 cables!

We are not there yet with portable audio but we are well on our way. Unless companies try harder to design and produce the best sounding gear they can while keeping a watchful eye on the point of diminishing return, we are doomed to repeat the same mistake.

So I try my best to enjoy the Utopia, GS-X Mk2 and the likes while I can still (just barely) afford them and hope that in the future, there are still companies like the speaker maker Magnepan in home audio, jut to name one, that still strives to improve the quality of their outstanding products like the incredible Maggie’s 3.7 while keeping the price below the stratosphere. Who will be that company in the future of portable audio?

 

[up late]

it was remiss of me not to include an emoticon in my post to indicate my scepticism. my apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[Justin_Time]

Hey everyone ,

Just got my utopia tonight and have been listening to them for about 4-5 hours so my impressions might change. Right now I think they sound about 35% better than my aeon flow closed. Similar sound signatures but the utopia has a bit more bass and instrument separation, openness and richness. However I feel like the afc picks up the tiny details more. Am I crazy or can anyone else compare the two? Only have the idsd bl for amp/dac so maybe that's the issue?

Thanks,

Duke

Ps. It definitely sounds like the best headphone I've ever heard, it just isn't blowing me away. Maybe my expectations were too high?

Nothing is perfect.

At the risk of offending some folks here, to my ears, the Utopia could improve in two areas. To my ears, the mid-bass/upper-bass has just a tad too much bloom; this makes the sound very impactful but does rob a little bit of the details from the midrange and treble. The attack is great on the Utopia but the decay is just a little bit slow; this emphasizes the sense of depth but again with a small loss in the details. This might be what you were hearing.

A slight emphasis of the treble area could easily but falsely improve the sense of details with a nasty effect on the overall sound—this is one of the problem with the early HD800 and Grado PS1000, problem that they largely corrected in the HD800S and QPS2000.

I think the Utopia chose the right balance, striving for a natural sound rather than the fireworks that would grab your attention at initial listening but soon leave you tired and wanting...less in the long run.

 

[Allanmarcus]

Of course!

While a lot of price escalation is just hype and greed, my guess is that we have reached—no, passed—the point of dimishing return with headphones a while back perhaps around $500, just to pick a number for the sake of comparison. After that, each time you try to improve the sound quality a little, you have to roughly double the price. And so it goes, $1,000 to $2000, to $4,000 with the Utopia, HE1000, LCD-4etc. Also, each time the price doubles, you sell fewer uniits, so the production cost for each unit goes up, so you have to increase the selling price again, then fewer people still can afford the product, so you sell fewer units, so the production cost goes up again and the selling price goes up more and so on and so forth. Thus, we arrive at the state of high-end home Audio today. Hype, greed and also, sadly, the mindless pursuit of the absolute sound price be damned, have reduced that industry to a mere shadow of itself ‘cause only a billionaire can afford a pair of $ 50,000 speakers hooked up to a pair of monoblocks amps at $25,000 each by a pair of $15, 000 cables!

We are not there yet with portable audio but we are well on our way. Unless companies try harder to design and produce the best sounding gear they can while keeping a watchful eye on the point of diminishing return, we are doomed to repeat the same mistake.

So I try my best to enjoy the Utopia, GS-X Mk2 and the likes while I can still (just barely) afford them and hope that in the future, there are still companies like the speaker maker Magnepan in home audio, jut to name one, that still strives to improve the quality of their outstanding products like the incredible Maggie’s 3.7 while keeping the price below the stratosphere. Who will be that company in the future of portable audio?

I think we reached the "crazy" state with portable audio a while ago. I mean a $3500 DAP? It's here and people are buying it.

I wonder though about the bold section above. While generally true, from what I understand, many in China are reverse price sensitive; meaning they will only buy when the price is high. Might also be true to an extent in Japan. I wonder if more Utopias are sold in China priced at $4k rather than $3k.

Also, price is not always an indicator of good. Simply take the Susvara as an example. A thoroughly unimpressive $6k set of headphones.

 

[llamaluv]

To my ears, the mid-bass/upper-bass has just a tad too much bloom

+1 on this. The wrong track with a simple thump-thump bass drum beat gives me fatigue and feels a little brutal over time. This is probably also the effect of the bass being very fast and tight (which is objectively a "plus" in terms of technical merits).

 

[MacedonianHero]

wow. that's a pretty big move. I can dig it though. Just still a big change though ha

The Abyss-Phi helped in that matter too.

That said, my SR-009s have not been missed.

 

[up late]

I think we research the "crazy" state with portable audio a while ago. I mean a $3500 DAP? It's here and people are buying it.

I wonder though about the bold section above. While generally true, from what I understand, many in China are reverse price sensitive; meaning they will only buy when the price is high. Might also be true to an extent in Japan. I wonder if more Utopias are sold in China priced at $4k rather than $3k.

Also, price is not always an indicator of good. Simply take the Susvara as an example. A thoroughly unimpressive $6k set of headphones.

agreed, but this is the high-end forum after all. you're definitely not preaching to the choir here.

 

[guerph]

Hey everyone ,

Just got my utopia tonight and have been listening to them for about 4-5 hours so my impressions might change. Right now I think they sound about 35% better than my aeon flow closed. Similar sound signatures but the utopia has a bit more bass and instrument separation, openness and richness. However I feel like the afc picks up the tiny details more. Am I crazy or can anyone else compare the two? Only have the idsd bl for amp/dac so maybe that's the issue?

Thanks,

Duke

Ps. It definitely sounds like the best headphone I've ever heard, it just isn't blowing me away. Maybe my expectations were too high?

The AFC is just crazy good. Don't let the $799 price fool you.

I'm not even sure what the deal is with Mr. Speakers because they are better than the open version (unless you really like dark headphones) and also their $1700 EFC.

I was also laughing a bit when I had the $2200 Z1R on their $3500 Sony DAP next to the $799 AFC.

Some guy tried to start a debate with me on reddit yesterday when I asserted that while I believe my Utopias are the better headphone, the AFC have fewer "strings" attached, which allow me to enjoy them just a little bit more than the Utopias. I wasn't trying to take anything away from the Utopia, only trying to express my high regard for the AFC, while offering my input for someone who was asking for direct comparisons. What I said was that with the AFC, I really get lost in the music. With my Utopias, there is always this thought in my head while listening, that I am listening to a really expensive pair of headphones...and its really kinda distracting. I think he was mad that I had an expensive pair of headphones sitting on a stand, not getting the love they deserve?? Or he was just your typical passive-aggressive reddit troll trying to goad me into a fruitless argument??

I wear my AFC nearly all day at work (because they are closed) with my Hugo2. If I could wear my Utopias at work, I would probably sell the AFC…well maybe. But, because I can’t wear open headphones at work, the Utopias only get worn at home and usually only for shorter listening sessions, splitting time with my speaker setup. It also usually takes a little while for my ears to adjust to the Utopias, especially after listening to the AFC all day. For the first hour or so or listening, I’m listening, but not really listening. Mostly, I’m wondering to myself whether they are really “worth” their weight in carbon fiber and lambskin. I doubt many who own the Utopias would experience this feeling unless they, like me, only get to listen to them for a couple/few hours throughout the week. But it usually takes a while for me to warm up to them each time I put them on. But once my ears adjust, they are simply stunning. Eventually I get to a point when I get lost in the music, just before I fall asleep. But, there is always, at least for me, a stigma attached to my pair of Utopias and it takes away from my overall enjoyment while listening to them. This is not a feeling I get while listening to the AFC. The AFC and Utopias are very different from each other. I do believe one is objectively/subjectively better than the other. I’m really glad I own and get to listen to both. But, in my opinion the AFC are unquestionably the better value...and for some, like me, might find them more enjoyable too.

 

[Whitigir]

Nothing is perfect.

To my ears, the mid-bass/upper-bass has just a tad too much bloom; this makes the sound very impactful but does rob a little bit of the details from the midrange and treble. The attack is great on the Utopia but the decay is just a little bit slow; this emphasizes the sense of depth but again with a small loss in the details.

This is exactly it, and I hear the same. 009 strikes a perfect balancing across the whole spectrum. Only thing is the tonal body of the 009 that needs a real good match and synergy to bring the best out of it. In my case, it was struggling with carbon/Grounded Grid pairing, and I am talking about tonal body energy. The perfectly balances and punchy dynamic is there, not in the sense of Utopia, but perfectly fine and balances. This was when I call Utopia for being different sound signature (better timbres, less soundstage) and that was fine.

Until I made the T2, it was a game changer. It is like a surge of cleaner and more powerful of unlimited energy is pushing the 009 together with the tubes characteristic that enhanced the tonal body of the 009. Perfect fidelity! Perfectly balanced, perfectly neutral, perfect speed, very transparent and resolving.

Now, don’t be mistaken it, Utopia has all of the above characteristics. It is only that 009 and T2 does better. This was the reason why I said before, Utopia can hold it ground well enough beside the 009 even with KG amps....the only exceptions is That magical T2 of which has elevated the 009 to another level that transcend it limitations

Again, I used “perfect word” but is in a contained comparison between Utopia and 009. In reality, there is no perfection only which is better, and that will need a lot of considerations to have it done. You can call it for being personal and subjective opinions because it just is

 

[dontfeedphils]

Some guy tried to start a debate with me on reddit yesterday when I asserted that while I believe my Utopias are the better headphone, the AFC have fewer "strings" attached, which allow me to enjoy them just a little bit more than the Utopias. I wasn't trying to take anything away from the Utopia, only trying to express my high regard for the AFD, while offering my input for someone who was asking for direct comparisons. What I said was that with the AFC, I really get lost in the music. With my Utopias, there is always this thought in my head while listening, that I am listening to a really expensive pair of headphones...and its really kinda distracting. I think he was mad that I had an expensive pair of headphones sitting on a stand, not getting the love they deserve?? Or he was just your typical passive-aggressive reddit troll trying to goad me into a fruitless argument??

I wear my AFC nearly all day at work (because they are closed) with my Hugo2. If I could wear my Utopias at work, I would probably sell the AFC…well maybe. But, because I can’t wear open headphones at work, the Utopias only get worn at home and usually only for shorter listening sessions, splitting time with my speaker setup. It also usually takes a little while for my ears to adjust to the Utopias, especially after listening to the AFC all day. For the first hour or so or listening, I’m listening, but not really listening. Mostly, I’m wondering to myself whether they are really “worth” their weight in carbon fiber and lambskin. I doubt many who own the Utopias would experience this feeling unless they, like me, only get to listen to them for a couple/few hours throughout the week. But it usually takes a while for me to warm up to them each time I put them on. But once my ears adjust, they are simply stunning. Eventually I get to a point when I get lost in the music, just before I fall asleep. But, there is always, at least for me, a stigma attached to my pair of Utopias and it takes away from my overall enjoyment while listening to them. This is not a feeling I get while listening to the AFC. The AFC and Utopias are very different from each other. I do believe one is objectively/subjectively better than the other. I’m really glad I own and get to listen to both. But, in my opinion the AFC are unquestionably the better value...and for some, like me, might find them more enjoyable too.

That was me. I was confused about your statement and asked for clarification. Maybe take the defensiveness down a notch, I wasn't trying to start any sort of argument or mad about anything, just confused by your statement.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program...

 

[dontfeedphils]

Also, price is not always an indicator of good. Simply take the Susvara as an example. A thoroughly unimpressive $6k set of headphones.

Way overpriced, agreed. Unimpressive, disagree.