Focal Utopia General Discussion
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:02 PM Post #12,751 of 20,634
I'm guessing it's a wireless headphone targeting the general population and priced somewhat lower than their other stuff. It doesn't make much sense to make a super high end wireless headphone at this point since the technology is changing so quickly.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:08 PM Post #12,752 of 20,634
I'm guessing it's a wireless headphone targeting the general population and priced somewhat lower than their other stuff. It doesn't make much sense to make a super high end wireless headphone at this point since the technology is changing so quickly.

But what makes you think it’s wireless in the first first place?

I haven’t kept up with wireless tech, can it do lossless or even hires yet?
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:22 PM Post #12,753 of 20,634
But what makes you think it’s wireless in the first first place?

I haven’t kept up with wireless tech, can it do lossless or even hires yet?

Well it looks like a closed-back, and they already have a high end and budget model. Also the name radiance may allude to radiated energy, i.e. wireless technology.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:26 PM Post #12,754 of 20,634
I think apple has taken the earbuds out of the iphone 12 and replaced it with this unreleased focal radiance.....but maintained the beats sound

that’s the tip (allegedly) from apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo

i’m just waiting for iJustine or Linus to cover it on youtube
 
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Sep 12, 2020 at 9:26 PM Post #12,755 of 20,634
Well it looks like a closed-back, and they already have a high end and budget model. Also the name radiance may allude to radiated energy, i.e. wireless technology.

It was thinking Radiance as in ecstatic, happy, joy.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:32 PM Post #12,756 of 20,634
They might be smart to have a closed-back model with the performance characteristics of the Stellia but without the boutique luxury look and finish. They could cut the price a bit (I have no idea how much) to appeal more to audiophiles and less to one percenters.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:38 PM Post #12,757 of 20,634
I’d respectfully suggest you avoid assembling headphones with beryllium drivers in your bedroom.

“While most commonly associated with diseases of the lungs, beryllium may also affect such organs as the liver, kidneys, heart, nervous system, and the lymphatic system. Direct contact with beryllium fumes or dusts may injure the exposed areas of the body, such as the eyes or the skin. Skin sensitization may also occur.”

I think I’ll stick with a retail purchase and you may want to learn a bit more about working with hazardous products before proceeding with your bedroom assembly project.

Assembling or handling an item made of beryllium is not hazardous. Once the metal itself has been manufactured, airborne fumes and dust are only associated with machining, welding, grinding, or the use of abrasives.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 9:57 PM Post #12,758 of 20,634
Assembling or handling an item made of beryllium is not hazardous. Once the metal itself has been manufactured, airborne fumes and dust are only associated with machining, welding, grinding, or the use of abrasives.
This quote from Focal’s beryllium supports what you are saying:

“However, in solid form and according to the knowledge available on the date on which this notice was produced, the risk is limited, as the main danger posed by the substance occurs when it is inhaled or absorbed in the form of vapours or microparticles.“

The warning notes the risk is “limited“ and that the warning is based on “Current” knowledge. I’ll pass and leave handling of beryllium to others with actual expertise.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 10:07 PM Post #12,759 of 20,634
Assembling or handling an item made of beryllium is not hazardous. Once the metal itself has been manufactured, airborne fumes and dust are only associated with machining, welding, grinding, or the use of abrasives.

Yeah, that's correct. You'd need to turn it into a dust, which I could do a number of ways, but none of them are required for assembling the headphones.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 10:08 PM Post #12,760 of 20,634
The warning notes the risk is “limited“ and that the warning is based on “Current” knowledge. I’ll pass and leave handling of beryllium to others with actual expertise.

Well, I and many others have a lot of experience with it, and handling is not an issue. The disclaimer sounds like the lawyers rather than the engineers authored it. It is an inspiration risk. The risk from fumes and dust are very real, but you won't be making any of that.
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 10:38 PM Post #12,761 of 20,634
As a (relatively) long time participant in this thread I find the rhythm amusing:

calm ... pissy about warranties ... calm ... stress over driver failure reports ... calm ... livid over pricing ... calm ... furious over accessory packages and replacement pad cost ... repeat (randomly)
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 10:44 PM Post #12,762 of 20,634
Well, I and many others have a lot of experience with it, and handling is not an issue. The disclaimer sounds like the lawyers rather than the engineers authored it. It is an inspiration risk. The risk from fumes and dust are very real, but you won't be making any of that.
Believe me, I’m not challenging your expertise; I’m not familiar with beryllium and have no plans to handle it. If @PointyFox wants to assemble headphones in his bedroom shop with beryllium drivers that’s fine. Again, I’ll pass!
 
Sep 12, 2020 at 10:49 PM Post #12,763 of 20,634
As a (relatively) long time participant in this thread I find the rhythm amusing:

calm ... pissy about warranties ... calm ... stress over driver failure reports ... calm ... livid over pricing ... calm ... furious over accessory packages and replacement pad cost ... repeat (randomly)

I'd assume it's because those topics don't have their own threads.
 
Sep 13, 2020 at 6:26 AM Post #12,764 of 20,634
Far be it from me to stoke the fire, but in an attempt to put things into perspective, here are my .02.

The driver in the Utopia (and other Focal headphones) is indeed a proprietary technology the brand designed in-house. This is described in some degree of detail in their Utopia & Elear Whitepaper, which states on page 9 it took them 2 years of R&D to develop the machine they use to shape beryllium into the dome they're using. It is my understanding that beryllium isn't the cheapest element one may use to manufacture headphone drivers, and headphones with beryllium drivers would therefore command a higher price than if they employed different/cheaper materials. Focal tops that with a proprietary dome design which is likely more expensive than an off-the-shelf driver one may purchase from Ali Express (I say "likely" because I don't actually know how much it costs to manufacture Focal's beryllium drivers.)

As an aside, Focal appears to employ proprietary manufacturing for all of their headphones. User oratory1990 (who, for those who don't know him, designs headphones for a living) briefly talks about it in a post where he touches upon how AKG, Sennheiser, and Focal go about solving the dichotomy between the need for a soft driver that's easy to move and the need for a stiff driver that keeps HF distortion at bay.

In addition to the above, the Utopia provide a good-looking design, good build quality, and are designed and manufactured in France (which means the cost of labor is higher—and I am more than willing to pay for it, as I personally consider outsourcing to low-income countries both short-sighted and unethical; YMMV.) Add to that the need for Focal to cover overhead costs such as marketing, accounting, legal, HR, etc. (all costs that wouldn't need covering if you built just one pair of headphones for yourself in your spare time), and I believe it is reasonable to expect a somewhat steep price for them.

You may still contend that $4k is too steep, and that's fair enough. It is Focal's prerogative to price their headphones at whatever level they want, and our prerogative as customers to vote with our wallet if we believe the price is unreasonable. However, there are a couple more considerations that I believe are worth making:

  • A lot of people, myself included, paid a lower price than MSRP for the Utopia.
  • In all fields, the MSRP for TOTL products from premium brands is subject to considerations that go beyond R&D and operational costs, to the point that it becomes a marketing tool more so than an equation to hit a target bottom line. By setting a higher barrier to entry by means of a steep MSRP, manufacturers create the psychological perception of an exclusive product for a select "lucky few", which contributes to making the product coveted. By contrast, setting the price too low may give the impression that your TOTL product isn't worth all that much, and vicariously so isn't the rest of your offerings. Bespeaking the status of the owner is inherent to the notion of TOTL, and I wouldn't be surprised if marketing considerations informed Focal's decision to price the Utopia at $4k.

Anyhow, my apologies for the long-winded monologue.
 
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Sep 13, 2020 at 6:40 AM Post #12,765 of 20,634
Far be it from me to stoke the fire, but in an attempt to put things into perspective, here are my .02.

The driver in the Utopia (and other Focal headphones) is indeed a proprietary technology the brand designed in-house. This is described in some degree of detail in their Utopia & Elear Whitepaper, which states on page 9 it took them 2 years of R&D to develop the machine they use to shape beryllium into the dome they're using. It is my understanding that beryllium isn't the cheapest element one may use to manufacture headphone drivers, and headphones with beryllium drivers would therefore command a higher price than if they employed different/cheaper materials. Focal tops that with a proprietary dome design which is likely more expensive than an off-the-shelf driver one may purchase from Ali Express (I say "likely" because I don't actually know how much it costs to manufacture Focal's beryllium drivers.)

As an aside, Focal appears to employ proprietary manufacturing for all of their headphones. User oratory1990 (who, for those who don't know him, designs headphones for a living) briefly talks about it in a post where he touches upon how AKG, Sennheiser, and Focal go about solving the dichotomy between the need for a soft driver that's easy to move and the need for a stiff driver that keeps HF distortion at bay.

In addition to the above, the Utopia provide a good-looking design, good build quality, and are designed and manufactured in France (which means the cost of labor is higher—and I am more than willing to pay for it, as I personally consider outsourcing to low-income countries both short-sighted and unethical; YMMV.) Add to that the need for Focal to cover overhead costs such as marketing, accounting, legal, HR, etc. (all costs that wouldn't need covering if you built just one pair of headphones for yourself in your spare time), and I believe it is reasonable to expect a somewhat steep price for them.

You may still contend that $4k is too steep, and that's fair enough. It is Focal's prerogative to price their headphones at whatever level they want, and our prerogative as customers to vote with our wallet if we believe the price is unreasonable. However, there are a couple more considerations that I believe are worth making:

  • A lot of people, myself included, paid a lower price than MSRP for the Utopia.
  • In all fields, the MSRP for TOTL products from premium brands is subject to considerations that go beyond R&D and operational costs, to the point that it becomes a marketing tool more so than an equation to hit a target bottom line. By setting a higher barrier to entry by means of a steep MSRP, manufacturers create the psychological perception of an exclusive product for a select "lucky few", which contributes to making the product coveted. By contrast, setting the price too low may give the impression that your TOTL product isn't worth all that much, and vicariously so isn't the rest of your offerings. Bespeaking the status of the owner is inherent to the notion of TOTL, and I wouldn't be surprised if marketing considerations informed Focal's decision to price the Utopia at $4k.

Anyhow, my apologies for the long-winded monologue.
Reading this, I’m glad I bought the Clear for $950 and the MDR-Z1R with Kimber Kable for $1200. Also owning the MDR-Z7M2, I consider them some of the best closed back high-res cans on the market. So perhaps those “mid-tier” headphones hold more value and quality than some may expect due to this sort of marketing. Granted I think the Clear are great and as evidenced by many owners in this thread, they love their Utopia. So Focal seems like a solid company, broken drivers aside. In the end, we like what we like. Cheers to the Utopia owners
 

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