[Zhanming057]

The Hugo 2's phone out is anything but good for just about every pair of cans I've pair it with. It's entirely too harsh and unforgiving for the Utopia (which I had back when I still had the Hugo 2). Chord's DAC headphone output's measure superbly but are all essentially line level outputs with some dampening. The Hugo 2 punches above its weight class as a pure DAC, but it absolutely needs a dedicated amp to at least soften the treble and presentation. This is also somewhat true for the Dave but not as problematic.

And this is coming from someone who's heavily invested in Mass Kobo amps, which have fairly linear treble presentation along with relatively light coloring of the mids.

The Utopia's can sound great on bright amps (GSX mk2, Mass Kobo 394) assuming that you have good source material. Treble is more forward but not "hot" in the way the HD800/S is. They are however entirely different beasts from the Beyer high ends and wouldn't necessarily shine on the same amps.

 

[dontfeedphils]

The Hugo 2's phone out is anything but good for just about every pair of cans I've pair it with. It's entirely too harsh and unforgiving for the Utopia (which I had back when I still had the Hugo 2). Chord's DAC headphone output's measure superbly but are all essentially line level outputs with some dampening. The Hugo 2 punches above its weight class as a pure DAC, but it absolutely needs a dedicated amp to at least soften the treble and presentation. This is also somewhat true for the Dave but not as problematic.

And this is coming from someone who's heavily invested in Mass Kobo amps, which have fairly linear treble presentation along with relatively light coloring of the mids.

The Utopia's can sound great on bright amps (GSX mk2, Mass Kobo 394) assuming that you have good source material. Treble is more forward but not "hot" in the way the HD800/S is. They are however entirely different beasts from the Beyer high ends and wouldn't necessarily shine on the same amps.

Disagree with almost everything you said regarding the Utopia Hugo 2 combo.

 

[Zhanming057]

Disagree with almost everything you said regarding the Utopia Hugo 2 combo.

Have you tried pairing the Hugo 2 with a good quality dedicated amp, maybe something solid state if you like the Hugo 2's presentation as-is?

TBH, compared to the Mass Kobo 404 which was what I used with the Hugo 2 stack, I found the Hugo 2's phone out flat-out unusable. I mean, it's incredibly resolving but there's zero tolerance to source issues and comes across as overly cold and thin.

The Dave does manage enough composure so that if you're listening to good recordings, I would say it's mostly acceptable as a DAC/amp for the Utopia's.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Have you tried pairing the Hugo 2 with a good quality dedicated amp, maybe something solid state if you like the Hugo 2's presentation as-is?

TBH, compared to the Mass Kobo 404 which was what I used with the Hugo 2 stack, I found the Hugo 2's phone out flat-out unusable. I mean, it's incredibly resolving but there's zero tolerance to source issues and comes across as overly cold and thin.

The Dave does manage enough composure so that if you're listening to good recordings, I would say it's mostly acceptable as a DAC/amp for the Utopia's.

Yep, driven them with a couple different high end SS and tube amps. I prefer the simplicity, transparency, and speed of the Utopia straight out of the Hugo 2.

 

[joseph69]

one of the nice things about taking a break from headphone listening is returning to it and experiencing what you're privileged to own anew. the utopia has reminded me of its greatness tonight.

Yes, it definitely is.

 

[GreenBow]

Review of the Utopia in the latest edition of Stereo (German HiFi Mag), on page 53, and it scored 100/100 ... Whole magazine is written in English so no worries. Free to view, and so is their back catalogue.

https://stereo-magazine.com/flipview/epaper/stereo-magazine-19-2018-19/

 

[buzzlulu]

Thanks for the link to the German magazine.
Even better (for me) than the Utopia article was the review of the LP12 turntable
Made since 1973 and still the reference point to which all others must compare !

 

[ubs28]

The Hugo 2's phone out is anything but good for just about every pair of cans I've pair it with. It's entirely too harsh and unforgiving for the Utopia (which I had back when I still had the Hugo 2). Chord's DAC headphone output's measure superbly but are all essentially line level outputs with some dampening. The Hugo 2 punches above its weight class as a pure DAC, but it absolutely needs a dedicated amp to at least soften the treble and presentation. This is also somewhat true for the Dave but not as problematic.

And this is coming from someone who's heavily invested in Mass Kobo amps, which have fairly linear treble presentation along with relatively light coloring of the mids.

The Utopia's can sound great on bright amps (GSX mk2, Mass Kobo 394) assuming that you have good source material. Treble is more forward but not "hot" in the way the HD800/S is. They are however entirely different beasts from the Beyer high ends and wouldn't necessarily shine on the same amps.

No they don’t. Have you seen how little power headphones actually require? It is absolutely nothing. Headphone amplifiers are just colour boxes and a marketing gimick the audio industry tries to make money of you.

 

[Zhanming057]

No they don’t. Have you seen how little power headphones actually require? It is absolutely nothing. Headphone amplifiers are just colour boxes and a marketing gimick the audio industry tries to make money of you.

Power does not equate to required current or voltage swing and different amps have very different power output profiles loaded. Headphones also don't have linear resistance factors throughout the entire frequency range.

If you believe that all headphone amps are just useless boxes, I'm not sure how we can move the discussion forward meaningfully. If a purely linear frequency response that is not ear compensated is what floats your boat, power to you.

 

[jlbrach]

the H2 drives the utopia just fine, in fact most anything does as the utopia is very efficient.....

 

[ubs28]

Power does not equate to required current or voltage swing and different amps have very different power output profiles loaded. Headphones also don't have linear resistance factors throughout the entire frequency range.

If you believe that all headphone amps are just useless boxes, I'm not sure how we can move the discussion forward meaningfully. If a purely linear frequency response that is not ear compensated is what floats your boat, power to you.

They certaintly are useless boxes. With headphones we are talking about milliwatts, which is absolutely nothing. Headphone amplifier do absolutely nothing if you see how little ienie winie power they produce.

Even my HD 800 S works fine straight out of my 6-core 2018 Macbook Pro.

 

[336881]

They certaintly are useless boxes. With headphones we are talking about milliwatts, which is absolutely nothing. Headphone amplifier do absolutely nothing if you see how little ienie winie power they produce.

Even my HD 800 S works fine straight out of my 6-core 2018 Macbook Pro.

You have a point but I think you are taking things a bit overboard. What about e stat headphones? Name me the last smart phone or laptop with a e stat headphone output? There is also a massive difference between works fine and driven to its full potential. An hd800 out of Wheatfield ha-2 or Apex Teton will literally turn the hd800 into a whole new headphone and many more times pleasing to listen to.

Now there are headphones that amps do not matter as much. I remember the Lcd-2 being labeled an amp person several years ago. The Utopia has been out a while but I still think it's a bit early to call it an amp person just yet. I have read people having very good luck on classic TOTL headroom amps with little or no ohm output and I tend to believe them.

 

[ubs28]

You have a point but I think you are taking things a bit overboard. What about e stat headphones? Name me the last smart phone or laptop with a e stat headphone output? There is also a massive difference between works fine and driven to its full potential. An hd800 out of Wheatfield ha-2 or Apex Teton will literally turn the hd800 into a whole new headphone and many more times pleasing to listen to.

Now there are headphones that amps do not matter as much. I remember the Lcd-2 being labeled an amp person several years ago. The Utopia has been out a while but I still think it's a bit early to call it an amp person just yet. I have read people having very good luck on classic TOTL headroom amps with little or no ohm output and I tend to believe them.

There are always exceptions and e-stats is one of them.

The HDVD 800 should power the HD 800 fine as it is specifically designed for the HD 800. Didn't hear anything to suggest that the Chord Hugo 1 was under powering it (hence why I didn't buy the HDVD 800 in the end). So what could the Apex Teton do besides adding a desirable colour for some people?

Also having heard also other headphones like the SR-009 with Staxx their own amplifier, the Susvara with their $14000 amplifier, I didn't hear anything special which makes me suggest that they are underpowered on other setups that I heard.

The best setup I have heard so far with the Focal Utopia is the Chord Dave + M Scalar + UBS 3 / Thunderbolt 3 cleaned up. The Focal Utopia's that sounded horrible on audio shows that I visited always involved some weird setup with an amplifier.

The only huge improvement in performance I have noticed is with speakers.

 

[Zhanming057]

You have a point but I think you are taking things a bit overboard. What about e stat headphones? Name me the last smart phone or laptop with a e stat headphone output? There is also a massive difference between works fine and driven to its full potential. An hd800 out of Wheatfield ha-2 or Apex Teton will literally turn the hd800 into a whole new headphone and many more times pleasing to listen to.

Now there are headphones that amps do not matter as much. I remember the Lcd-2 being labeled an amp person several years ago. The Utopia has been out a while but I still think it's a bit early to call it an amp person just yet. I have read people having very good luck on classic TOTL headroom amps with little or no ohm output and I tend to believe them.

You could push most planars to about 10w and I listen to my Abyss 1266 on close to 1w for some types of music. Even efficient headphones benefit from more amps or more voltage swing that doesn't reflect on just the wattage used.

There are always exceptions and e-stats is one of them.

The HDVD 800 should power the HD 800 fine as it is specifically designed for the HD 800. Didn't hear anything to suggest that the Chord Hugo 1 was under powering it (hence why I didn't buy the HDVD 800 in the end). So what could the Apex Teton do besides adding a desirable colour for some people?

Also having heard also other headphones like the SR-009 with Staxx their own amplifier, the Susvara with their $14000 amplifier, I didn't hear anything special which makes me suggest that they are underpowered on other setups that I heard.

The best setup I have heard so far with the Focal Utopia is the Chord Dave + M Scalar + UBS 3 / Thunderbolt 3 cleaned up. The Focal Utopia's that sounded horrible on audio shows that I visited always involved some weird setup with an amplifier.

The only huge improvement in performance I have noticed is with speakers.

And what's the difference between a speaker that needs 4-8w and a planar headphone that needs 2-4w of power? Shouldn't all amps that push out, say, 50w sound the same on all reasonably sized speakers?

 

[ubs28]

You could push most planars to about 10w and I listen to my Abyss 1266 on close to 1w for some types of music. Even efficient headphones benefit from more amps or more voltage swing that doesn't reflect on just the wattage used.



And what's the difference between a speaker that needs 4-8w and a planar headphone that needs 2-4w of power? Shouldn't all amps that push out, say, 50w sound the same on all reasonably sized speakers?

What planar needs 4 watts? And I have run headphone likes the LCD-4 straight out of the Chord Dave without problems.

And for speakers, make that 2 x TOTL Esoteric mono blocks. Even with crappy speakers such as the TOTL B&W speakers, the difference is not funny. People working at B&W also checked out this setup and they couldn't also believe what they were hearing as they only use their speakers with regular "Hi-Fi" setups (I have no idea why they do this as they can hear the speakers are underpowered).

I have never heard something similar with headphones + amplifiers doing this at all.