[Phronesis]

Ears will definitely adjust to the sound over time. I don’t see how the headphone can physically ‘burn-in’.

 

[up late]

not the "burn-in" debate too! *shakes head*

 

[doraymon]

A few hours ago I received the Norne Silver Draug for my Utopia.
For the skeptical about headphone cable improvements and owners of Utopia: you have to try this thing guys...
I can't believe it did exactly what I was hoping for: more air, sparkle and perception of soundstage depth. These are the only things that didn't excite me about the Utopias.
The presentation is definitely less "in your face" compared to the stock cable, in a way closer to the Clear but with the next level detail and realism of the Utopia.
Wow

 

[pfurey89]

Does anyone here listen to mostly everything? I want the TOTL best pair of cans for every genre I listen to (electronic, singer/songwriter, classical, some rock). I have the 4z now (love the mids/bass, highs are good - but not as good as Utopia's) but it's mildly uncomfortable for my head. I've listened to the Utopia maybe 3x now, but never longer than 15 minutes amongst test tracks which is a hard way to really asses something.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I agree with this assessment. I listened to The Police DTS CD with the Utopia and it was amazing. I've heard those songs a 1,000 times and yet I heard so many new things I couldn't keep up. I was all set to get them but then made the mistake of mentioning the cost to the boss. So now I am getting the Clears instead .

you made me lol! I stupidly thought "his boss gives him a budget to buy headphones for work?!" yeah, real dumb I know....

I am glad that you got to get a pair of Clears! You could do wayyyyyyy worse, and to quote @TSAVJason "they don't suck" lol.

Such as? İ am at the same boat

Hugo2 maybe?

That would be a simple pick from me. you cover an absurd amount of ground with that combo.

do you find that the utopia's and z1r's sound signatures complement each other, and how do they compare?

completely agree. I think that would be a smashing combo. You get the detail monster Utopia with the speed and more "in your face" presentation, and the Z1R is the more fun and laid back can (compared to the Utopia its laid back).

I don’t think you can wear them for 8 hrs and still feel comfortable, cause they are still heavy compared to headphones like z1r and TH900. I’m fine with z1r and T1 for long term use. Uto is certainly comfortable for first 2-3 hrs.

Z1R's build to me is only second to the HD800. The T1 is really high up there because of the pillow pads lol (love those pads...)

I find the Utopia to be a very comfortable headphone. So much so that I recently have been using them for gaming as well where I can end up having some pretty long sessions (up to 8 hours) and not have any discomfort.

If someone were to have discomfort, I would point my finger at the stock cable. I ditched mine a long time ago but that thing is absolutely awful and I still don't know what Focal was thinking... it's the type of cable you would find on a vacuum cleaner; very stiff, heavy and inflexible.

Sure, the headphone itself is heavier than others but the premium materials in the headband and ear pads more than makes up for it personally, YMMV of course.

As a reference, I was using the HD800 mostly for long gaming sessions and that thing is super light and also very comfortable.

You use the Utopia for gaming??

Wow... I feel bad for you, I use the HE1 as my gaming can.

Totally messing (I use the HD800 btw) but the Utopia has to be really fun for that!

I'm curious about your gaming set up? PM me if you have the time to talk gaming.

Ears will definitely adjust to the sound over time. I don’t see how the headphone can physically ‘burn-in’.

I'll try to not start a war, but similar to how your cars engine can burn in. Car manuals will encourage you to drive it on the highway for X amount of miles to "burn" it it. The headphone has moving parts inside of it so its of the same nature.

 

[delirium]

you made me lol! I stupidly thought "his boss gives him a budget to buy headphones for work?!" yeah, real dumb I know....

I am glad that you got to get a pair of Clears! You could do wayyyyyyy worse, and to quote @TSAVJason "they don't suck" lol.

That would be a simple pick from me. you cover an absurd amount of ground with that combo.

completely agree. I think that would be a smashing combo. You get the detail monster Utopia with the speed and more "in your face" presentation, and the Z1R is the more fun and laid back can (compared to the Utopia its laid back).

Z1R's build to me is only second to the HD800. The T1 is really high up there because of the pillow pads lol (love those pads...)

You use the Utopia for gaming??

Wow... I feel bad for you, I use the HE1 as my gaming can.

Totally messing (I use the HD800 btw) but the Utopia has to be really fun for that!

I'm curious about your gaming set up? PM me if you have the time to talk gaming.

I'll try to not start a war, but similar to how your cars engine can burn in. Car manuals will encourage you to drive it on the highway for X amount of miles to "burn" it it. The headphone has moving parts inside of it so its of the same nature.

Hehe...not only that.but the wires need to make a track..no pond intended

 

[Phronesis]

I'll try to not start a war, but similar to how your cars engine can burn in. Car manuals will encourage you to drive it on the highway for X amount of miles to "burn" it it. The headphone has moving parts inside of it so its of the same nature.

Very familiar with break-in for cars, I'm currently breaking in the replacement engine for one of mine. Mechanical break-in for car components is understandable due to effects of friction and wear, lubrication, thermal changes, seals, tolerances, etc. - a large number of moving parts working together under very demanding and varying conditions.

With the Utopia, the mechanical aspects are much more basic than a car engine, and are explained well in the head-fi video by Jude. The driver dome is intended to be rigid, and any permanent deformation over time would indicate damage or a defective dome. The driver surround is intended to be very flexible, and permanent deformation of the surround would also indicate damage or a defective surround; we also don't want the surround to become detached from the dome or the frame around the surround. The voice coil conducts the current and it's important that it not permanently deform, nor become detached from the dome. The magnets don't have moving parts, and we don't want the field strength to change with time. The only other component which could deform and change the sound is the earpads, and a change in the earpads could affect the sound substantially, but that change would only occur by wearing the headphones and isn't part of what people think of as burn-in. That seems to cover all the components, so I'd be interested in a hypothesis or explanation of how burn-in could work. Does Focal indicate that burn-in is needed?

One thing we know is that our ears/brains adjust quite a bit to the sound headphones deliver. Try listening to the Utopia for a while, then immediately switch to a warmer headphone like the LCD-2 or LCD-3. The LCD will initially seem muddy and veiled, but over time the sound will be perceived as more balanced and detail will return. Then immediately switch to the Utopia, and it will seem bright and thin, but over time, the sense of brightness will diminish and the bass will return. These perceptual adjustment effects take place over multiple timeframes - seconds, minutes, hours, and maybe even longer.

Given the lack of basis for significant mechanical burn-in, and the readily apparent perceptual adjustment of our ears/brains, IMO perceived burn-in is likely entirely or almost entirely due to psychoacoustic rather than mechanical changes.

 

[delirium]

Very familiar with break-in for cars, I'm currently breaking in the replacement engine for one of mine. Mechanical break-in for car components is understandable due to effects of friction and wear, lubrication, thermal changes, seals, tolerances, etc. - a large number of moving parts working together under very demanding and varying conditions.

With the Utopia, the mechanical aspects are much more basic than a car engine, and are explained well in the head-fi video by Jude. The driver dome is intended to be rigid, and any permanent deformation over time would indicate damage or a defective dome. The driver surround is intended to be very flexible, and permanent deformation of the surround would also indicate damage or a defective surround; we also don't want the surround to become detached from the dome or the frame around the surround. The voice coil conducts the current and it's important that it not permanently deform, nor become detached from the dome. The magnets don't have moving parts, and we don't want the field strength to change with time. The only other component which could deform and change the sound is the earpads, and a change in the earpads could affect the sound substantially, but that change would only occur by wearing the headphones and isn't part of what people think of as burn-in. That seems to cover all the components, so I'd be interested in a hypothesis or explanation of how burn-in could work. Does Focal indicate that burn-in is needed?

One thing we know is that our ears/brains adjust quite a bit to the sound headphones deliver. Try listening to the Utopia for a while, then immediately switch to a warmer headphone like the LCD-2 or LCD-3. The LCD will initially seem muddy and veiled, but over time the sound will be perceived as more balanced and detail will return. Then immediately switch to the Utopia, and it will seem bright and thin, but over time, the sense of brightness will diminish and the bass will return. These perceptual adjustment effects take place over multiple timeframes - seconds, minutes, hours, and maybe even longer.

Given the lack of basis for significant mechanical burn-in, and the readily apparent perceptual adjustment of our ears/brains, IMO perceived burn-in is likely entirely or almost entirely due to psychoacoustic rather than mechanical changes.

No! The cable and the cable inside utopia needs to make a path. road or burn in!!!

 

[Phronesis]

No! The cable and the cable inside utopia needs to make a path. road or burn in!!!

We're talking about mechanical burn-in. If you want to argue that there's significant electrical burn-in which could affect the sound, that's a non-starter for me, and that would probably need to be discussed in the Sound Science section of the forum.

 

[TSAVJason]

you made me lol! I stupidly thought "his boss gives him a budget to buy headphones for work?!" yeah, real dumb I know....

I am glad that you got to get a pair of Clears! You could do wayyyyyyy worse, and to quote @TSAVJason "they don't suck" lol.

That would be a simple pick from me. you cover an absurd amount of ground with that combo.

completely agree. I think that would be a smashing combo. You get the detail monster Utopia with the speed and more "in your face" presentation, and the Z1R is the more fun and laid back can (compared to the Utopia its laid back).

Z1R's build to me is only second to the HD800. The T1 is really high up there because of the pillow pads lol (love those pads...)

You use the Utopia for gaming??

Wow... I feel bad for you, I use the HE1 as my gaming can.

Totally messing (I use the HD800 btw) but the Utopia has to be really fun for that!

I'm curious about your gaming set up? PM me if you have the time to talk gaming.

I'll try to not start a war, but similar to how your cars engine can burn in. Car manuals will encourage you to drive it on the highway for X amount of miles to "burn" it it. The headphone has moving parts inside of it so its of the same nature.

Wait! I say things like that? lol yeah I guess I do. I’m such a potty mouth hahahaha

 

[delirium]

We're talking about mechanical burn-in. If you want to argue that there's significant electrical burn-in which could affect the sound, that's a non-starter for me, and that would probably need to be discussed in the Sound Science section of the forum.

Well you have the gum that the berylium is attached to

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Very familiar with break-in for cars, I'm currently breaking in the replacement engine for one of mine. Mechanical break-in for car components is understandable due to effects of friction and wear, lubrication, thermal changes, seals, tolerances, etc. - a large number of moving parts working together under very demanding and varying conditions.

With the Utopia, the mechanical aspects are much more basic than a car engine, and are explained well in the head-fi video by Jude. The driver dome is intended to be rigid, and any permanent deformation over time would indicate damage or a defective dome. The driver surround is intended to be very flexible, and permanent deformation of the surround would also indicate damage or a defective surround; we also don't want the surround to become detached from the dome or the frame around the surround. The voice coil conducts the current and it's important that it not permanently deform, nor become detached from the dome. The magnets don't have moving parts, and we don't want the field strength to change with time. The only other component which could deform and change the sound is the earpads, and a change in the earpads could affect the sound substantially, but that change would only occur by wearing the headphones and isn't part of what people think of as burn-in. That seems to cover all the components, so I'd be interested in a hypothesis or explanation of how burn-in could work. Does Focal indicate that burn-in is needed?

One thing we know is that our ears/brains adjust quite a bit to the sound headphones deliver. Try listening to the Utopia for a while, then immediately switch to a warmer headphone like the LCD-2 or LCD-3. The LCD will initially seem muddy and veiled, but over time the sound will be perceived as more balanced and detail will return. Then immediately switch to the Utopia, and it will seem bright and thin, but over time, the sense of brightness will diminish and the bass will return. These perceptual adjustment effects take place over multiple timeframes - seconds, minutes, hours, and maybe even longer.

Given the lack of basis for significant mechanical burn-in, and the readily apparent perceptual adjustment of our ears/brains, IMO perceived burn-in is likely entirely or almost entirely due to psychoacoustic rather than mechanical changes.

im in total agreeance on mental burn in, which I think can be HUGE when listening to one headphone to the next.

Dan Clark believes there is burn in importance on the Ether. Wether the Utopia "needs it" or is even capable of it like you offer I am not sure of... I don't know if I ever heard an official statement on it from them. Since I have heard it from what I feel is credible sources of function I assumed all headphones would have the ability to "utilize" it. (Utilize is in quotes because you can obviously enjoy a headphone without waiting the burn in period).

Not trying to do a blanket statement with what I said btw. Also not arguing either way ha. Im regards to mechanical burn in I am agnostic with a touch of belief given the people I have talked to about it.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Wait! I say things like that? lol yeah I guess I do. I’m such a potty mouth hahahaha

Yeah you do you silly goose. That quote totally stuck with me since I never heard it before as a "saying". I thought it was awesome. Usually people talk about how good something is, but not you, "it doesn't suck" haha

 

[TSAVJason]

Yeah you do you silly goose. That quote totally stuck with me since I never heard it before as a "saying". I thought it was awesome. Usually people talk about how good something is, but not you, "it doesn't suck" haha

Things that don’t suck are good. Things that suck are bad hahahahaha

 

[jmk720]

You use the Utopia for gaming??

Wow... I feel bad for you, I use the HE1 as my gaming can.

Totally messing (I use the HD800 btw) but the Utopia has to be really fun for that!

I'm curious about your gaming set up? PM me if you have the time to talk gaming.

C'mon guys, bring the gaming discussion over here.