[TSAVJason]

Please, I repeated a billion times I wasn't going to make it public because it could get them in trouble, yet you were throwing a tantrum that you wanted to hear the numbers from me despite you knowing it yourself also. If you were unbiased, you would have confirmed the big margins on TOTL headphones.

Also I told you back then that you should stop replying to me. So could you stop doing it for the billionth time? I won't reply anyway.

Then stop replying I won’t mind. I’m convinced you don’t know the margins anyway. We all know that telling us the margin won’t expose your dealer. FYI, I looked it was 2 times you insisted I stop responding today makes it 3. A billion is a bit of an exaggeration don’t you think.

 

[jlbrach]

So if the dealer didn’t exit the relationship in a hostile way the sale would be qualified and so the warranty is intact. In your case the dealer went out of business so your warranty is intact. In the case of hostile termination it is possible the dealer had stock but didn’t return it to Focal as part of the termination it is possible the manufacturer could decline the warranty but with the NEW distribution this is highly unlikely since I’m told Focal is stepping up it’s game in the customer service arena.

I would suggest that if a customer bought from a dealer in good faith and that dealer for whatever reason was no longer a dealer there is no way in the world the customer would be disadvantaged in any way or else the manufacturer would find itself soon out of customers and business

 

[TSAVJason]

I would suggest that if a customer bought from a dealer in good faith and that dealer for whatever reason was no longer a dealer there is no way in the world the customer would be disadvantaged in any way or else the manufacturer would find itself soon out of customers and business

I would totally agree unless you elected to purchase grey market goods. A manufacturer should not be responsible for a non-partner representation of condition or value.

Addendum: I saw a non-authorized person selling 2 sets of Clear on Audiogon & Ebay. He was offering them at $1250. The problem is he became the 1st owner and the product failed to make the criteria for warranty since the warranty is not transferable. So whomever bought those headphones will receive no support. In this case there are 2 parties involved in harming the consumer. 1st is the seller on Audiogon and second the dealer that supplied the Audiogon seller. There is a term known as “Buyer Beware” and this comes from sound reasoning. Not all sellers are providing what they say they are providing.

 

[Ojisan]

Lol, I wouldn't doubt it, with these crazy prices nowadays.

You mean crazy cheap? The Focal headphones so far are nowhere near their normal audiophile price As a brand new owner, I hope I can enjoy this for a while...

 

[ubs28]

Is this guy replying again on something from last year despite I telling him not reply anymore a billion times?

And now it doesn’t matter anymore since we all have seen what discounts Focal has done after that.

The best quote I got from the Focal Utopia at launch was at a $700 discount. And dealers won’t ever sell at a loss.

But it seems the margins are higher as Focal were giving $1000 discounts at some point.

But I know you will deny that the margins are at least $700.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

What is the beef in this thread? Can we all just get along? lol, sheesh.

 

[ubs28]

I have no beef. No idea why he brings up something from last year again when I told him to stop replying.

 

[TSAVJason]

Is this guy replying again on something from last year despite I telling him not reply anymore a billion times?

And now it doesn’t matter anymore since we all have seen what discounts Focal has done after that.

The best quote I got from the Focal Utopia at launch was at a $700 discount. And dealers won’t ever sell at a loss.

But it seems the margins are higher as Focal were giving $1000 discounts at some point.

But I know you will deny that the margins are at least $700.

Hahaha allow me to correct you. 1st at the retail of $4000 the Utopia, the Utopia is definitely more profit than $700 or $1000 for that matter. ....you’re just not going to admit you don’t know the margins but I’m ok with you dancing the pop lock dance you enjoy so much. This is now my 4th response to you and I apologize for not seeing your post some months ago. I don’t pay all that much attention to silly statements or unfounded arguments ....today was fun but I’m out!!

 

[ubs28]

Do you understand what the word ATLEAST means?

So the profit margins are higher than $1000 you just confirmed? Thank you for proving my statement of last year how huge the profits margins are. HAHAHA.

So next year you will bring the same stuff up again despite me telling you not to reply?

 

[dontfeedphils]

Think you two could grow up and shut up already?

 

[bflat]

Do you understand what the word ATLEAST means?

So the profit margins are higher than $1000 you just confirmed? Thank you for proving my statement of last year how huge the profits margins are. HAHAHA.

So next year you will bring the same stuff up again despite me telling you not to reply?

If you are trying to be accurate, you are talking about gross margins and not profit. Since you don't know what retailers spend in terms of overhead (rent, salaries, commissions, taxes, etc), you can't possibly know what the profit margins are since each retailer's overheads are different. So even if the gross margin is greater than $1000, it doesn't mean that's what goes into the retail owner's pockets (e.g. profit). What the store owner makes is substantially less than gross margins. Tax alone takes about 30%, well 21% now in the US with tax reform.

 

[ubs28]

If you are trying to be accurate, you are talking about gross margins and not profit. Since you don't know what retailers spend in terms of overhead (rent, salaries, commissions, taxes, etc), you can't possibly know what the profit margins are since each retailer's overheads are different. So even if the gross margin is greater than $1000, it doesn't mean that's what goes into the retail owner's pockets (e.g. profit). What the store owner makes is substantially less than gross margins. Tax alone takes about 30%, well 21% now in the US with tax reform.

The biggest discount I have seen covers all taxes and costs as no dealer will ever sell at a loss. So it is atleast a $700 real profit dealers are making. I am again stressing on the word “atleast”.

For me, $700 is already a very huge margin on a headphone personally.

 

[TSAVJason]

Yes these are factors. I just think it would be very cool if he told us what he thinks these HUGE dealer margins are. On average the margins aren’t all that HUGE and part of that is to attempt to control grey market sales to protect the consumers from fraudulent sales practices. I personally have no issue letting people know my net profit on a sale but for some reason people forget that even a credit card or PayPal transaction has a 2-3% cost to it ....so there are quite a few profit reduction devices in each sale. We don’t do commission sales to be sure we can avoid sales based on $$ rather than helping the customer find his or her audio nirvana.

I do think it’s intetesting a person decides what he feels a Dealer should or shouldn’t make. We are business’s and so we are in the business to generate a profit.

 

[bflat]

The biggest discount I have seen covers all taxes and costs as no dealer will ever sell at a loss. So it is atleast a $700 real profit dealers are making. I am again stressing on the word “atleast”.

For me, $700 is already a very huge margin on a headphone personally.

Again, if you are trying to be accurate it is financially incorrect to equate discount to net profit. All you can accurately say to your above example is that you know of a retailer willing to discount the MSRP by $700 and still make a profit. As to what the profit amount is, it can range from $1 to more than $1K. So your statement of "at least" $700 is pure conjecture with absolutely no proof unless that dealer disclosed the full itemized selling costs to you. If that retailer did just that and you can't share it with the rest of us, then you have to accept the fact that some headfi members will not believe your statement.

 

[TSAVJason]

The biggest discount I have seen covers all taxes and costs as no dealer will ever sell at a loss. So it is atleast a $700 real profit dealers are making. I am again stressing on the word “atleast”.

For me, $700 is already a very huge margin on a headphone personally.

“There are no definitions available for atleast.” I’m convinced you just don’t want to allow a business any profit and that’s fine. According to you a 20-25% margin is too much for a dealer to make. I suggest you don’t buy from Amazon or Best Buy since their profit is almost always at 30-40% profit.