[Allanmarcus]

Better use that money on upgrading the cable of the Focal Utopia rather than buying an amplifier. It seems that the stock cable is holding back the Focal Utopia quite surprisingly.

Don't forget the magic pebbles. It's clearly been shown these are pebbles.

The H2 has plenty of power to drive the Utopia. If you get high end amp (and many would suggest avoiding AudioGD), you will likely eek out a tiny bit more detail and possibly a tiny bit more bass definition. Some would argue you will just be coloring the sound. So what? If you find an amp that colors the sound to your liking, then you are better off. There is no "right"; there is only what you like. I recently got an Eddie Current Black Widow 2 and a Gumby DAC. Between the Gumby and the Bimby, I can hear better bass extension and more detail. Between the BW2 and the MJ2 with good tubes, well, the jury is still out. I've had a cold, and thus not the best conditions for critical listening.

Will the sound be different with an H2 and amp, vs just the H2? Possibly. Depends on the amp and the tubes (if there are any). Will the sound be different with a different cable? Unless you get pure silver, which I did, probably not worth the money. A pure silver cable made the Utopia way too brittle sounding to me.

I recently made a pure silver/copper hybrid cable that I will test on the Utopia when head stops exploding every ten minutes (yes, it's quite messy).

You have to ask yourself, are you happy with the sound? If not, what is missing? Can a cable "fix" what is missing" Can an amp? Can different headphones? A different DAC? A Schiit Eitr (or better transport)?

Hell, everything I've read points to the Eitr being the best bang for the buck for a system upgrade, unless you want to spend hundreds more on more exotic stuff like a Soundware D100

Again, what are you missing? If you want better, then get a Dave or a TT (if you like that sound) or a Yggy and an Aficionado or high end DNA amp. Have you heard the McIntosh amp Jason loves with the Utopia? D1100 I think?

 

[ubs28]

Don't forget the magic pebbles. It's clearly been shown these are pebbles.

The H2 has plenty of power to drive the Utopia. If you get high end amp (and many would suggest avoiding AudioGD), you will likely eek out a tiny bit more detail and possible a tiny bit more bass definition. Some would argue you will just be coloring the sound. So what? If you find an amp that colors the sound to your liking, then you are better off. There is no "right"; there is only what you like. I recently got an Eddie Current Black Widow 2 and a Gumby DAC. Between the Gumby and the Bimby, I can hear better bass extension and more detail. Between the BW2 and the MJ2 with good tubes, well, the jury is still out. I've had a cold, and thus not the best conditions for critical listening.

Will the sound be different with an H2 and amp, vs just the H2? Possibly. Depends on the amp and the tubes (if there are any). Will the sound be different with a different cable? Unless you get pure silver, which I did, probably not worth the money. A pure silver cable made the Utopia way too brittle sounding to me.

I recently made a pure silver/copper hybrid cable that I will test on the Utopia when head stops exploding every ten minutes (yes, it's quite messy).

You have to ask yourself, are you happy with the sound? If not, what is missing? Can a cable "fix" what is missing" Can an amp? Can different headphones? A different DAC? A Schiit Eitr (or better transport)?

Hell, everything I've read points to the Eitr being the best bang for the buck for a system upgrade, unless you want to spend hundreds more on more exotic stuff like a Soundware D100

Again, what are you missing? If you want better, then get a Dave or a TT (if you like that sound) or a Yggy and an Aficionado or high end DNA amp. Have you heard the McIntosh amp Jason loves with the Utopia? D150 I think?

I have heard McIntosh their “high-end” systems with speakers and it didn’t sound high-end at all to me. The difference against other high-end gear was quite big. So If that is the best McIntosh can do, then McIntosh is not something I would ever consider. Only thing I can give them is that they make visual pleasing stuff. But if somebody likes McIntosh gear, then it is his money to spend on that.

If you want colour, you can use high-end VST / AU plugins rather than using an amplifier. I did that with the HD 800 and tweaked it to my liking with great results.

 

[x RELIC x]

@Allanmarcus I agree with the preferences statement with an amp added, but an amp can’t add detail. There may be a perception of more detail from the amp depending on its tuning compared to the source gear/DAC, but technically it can never physically add more detail or fidelity (transparency to the original source) as every single device in the chain will degrade the signal to a degree, no matter what gear is used from any manufacturer. This is a measurable fact and when people say this academic fact it’s to keep misconceptions from spreading, not to debate people’s preferences.

At the end of the day it really does come down to enjoyment. For me, personally, I prefer not to add an amp most of the time (in my case the Liquid Gold) because to my ears it reduces the real subtle nuance that I get without it. Conversely, when I want that sweet Cavalli sound then I plug in to the Liquid Gold. Preferences and perceptions are powerful, especially when listening to music and at the end of the day the enjoyment factor should be the priority IMO (essentially agreeing with you here).

To be more specific regarding the Hugo2 and the Utopia I’m with Craig from MTME on this one... it’s an excellent paring with detail, nuance, and punch that I think is very enjoyable and, IMO, very hard to beat.

 

[TSAVJason]

I have heard McIntosh their “high-end” systems with speakers and it didn’t sound high-end at all to me. The difference against other high-end gear was quite big. So If that is the best McIntosh can do, then McIntosh is not something I would ever consider. Only thing I can give them is that they make visual pleasing stuff. But if somebody likes McIntosh gear, then it is his money to spend on that.

If you want colour, you can use high-end VST / AU plugins rather than using an amplifier. I did that with the HD 800 and tweaked it to my liking with great results.

That would be the D1100 McIntosh DAC he’s mentioning I like. Based on your comment toward McIntosh I’m pretty sure you’ve not heard it. Paired with the Utopia it’s a very nice result.

 

[Allanmarcus]

That would be the D1100 McIntosh DAC

Thanks. I updated my post.

but an amp can’t add detail

Thanks, I updated my post.

you can use high-end VST / AU plugins

I disagree. I tried all sorts of plugins to replicate the sound I get from the MJ2, and no dice. Nothing I tried sounded as good to me as the real deal. I can certainly see how using plugin would be desirable for the HD800.

 

[JimL11]

@Allanmarcus I agree with the preferences statement with an amp added, but an amp can’t add detail. There may be a perception of more detail from the amp depending on its tuning compared to the source gear/DAC, but technically it can never physically add more detail or fidelity (transparency to the original source) as every single device in the chain will degrade the signal to a degree, no matter what gear is used from any manufacturer. This is a measurable fact and when people say this academic fact it’s to keep misconceptions from spreading, not to debate people’s preferences.

Well, yes and no. It's true that an amp cannot add more detail than the source is capable of providing, but I can see where the source driving a headphone directly may lose more detail due to, say, an output stage which may not work so well into a 50 ohm headphone, compared with the same output driving an amplifier with a 10 kilohm impedance which is a much easier load, thus resulting in more detail being preserved into the amp, and the amp, while losing some information, still able to preserve more detail into the headphone than the source driving the headphones directly.

This is the same kind of issue as the difference between using a passive preamp vs an active preamp, where you what you gain from active buffering may (or may not) exceed what you lose from the active circuitry - again depending on the specific source and its drive capability. And it can be more than detail. For example, I have seen comments to the effect that passive preamps had superior purity whereas active preamps had superior dynamics, so the issues can be multi-dimensional - detail, tonality, purity, staging, dynamics, etc. If one seems superior to the other in everything, that's easy, but it's not always the case. The choice between them can come down to subjective observation and personal preference.

 

[SilverEars]

Anybody able to compare impressions with STAX SR-009? One of the aspect I'm interested is in the treble quality and resolvability.

Is the Utopia finicky with DAC/Amp? Does source make a big difference with it? What are the preferred DAC/Amp with Utopia, and what didn't work so well with it?

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Then I am twisting your arm and asking a loaded question!

Well, loaded in the sense that there is a wide spectrum of opinions on this. For everyone who owns or considers a Utopia I think it is a very valid question. Take your time. No rush.

(in regards to adding the Rogue RH5 amp with the Hugo 2, Versus just plugging straight into the Hugo 2)
Ok! Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you yesterday. I went to the store to specifically do the comparison for you and a customer had all the big dogs out and was listening (Ether Flow, Utopia, Clear, Hugo 2) ect. Obviously their listening comes first any day of the week.

So what I got now is very interesting, at least in my opinion ha! Listening to Flamenco guitar, the detail out of the Hugo 2 by its self is all there and almost in your face (good or bad thing depending on listener). Add the Rogue and its not as fast sounding with the super fast passages, but I feel I get slightly better weight to the sound.

The Rogue does a great job of taming the treble of the Utopia (good or bad thing ). I played around with the filters of the Hugo 2 and it never took the edge off for me (which I thought was the purpose of it?) maybe someone can help me with that. For this I feel like having the Rogue (or a comparable amp with slight warmth) would give you hours of fatigue free listening.

The mids go to the Rogue. To me, voices sound more life like and natural. Out of the Hugo 2 its self It looses some of this quality. Almost too edgy for my tastes and makes it feel harsher.

I feel like I am getting a wider sound stage with the Rogue, even if the bass is bloomed out more. (tighter but less bass out of Hugo 2).


I think that introducing the Rogue has its benefits and also it's disadvantages. It depends on the listener if the they think the Hugo 2 by its self is perfect. For my ears adding the Rouge is giving me the best of both worlds. The DAC section of the Hugo 2 is what I would be paying for, But sometimes Ultra detail doesn't always come off as the most natural, hence the desire for the Rogue. So with that said, If you are someone who loves the sound that tubes can offer, then I think the Rogue will be a great match and exactly what you are expecting.

I also want people to know that the Rogue RH5 is a tube hybrid. To my ears it is able of keeping the pace of what the Hugo 2 dishes out without getting too syrupy sounding to get bogged down. I have never tube rolled the RH5, but super curious what else I can eek out of this amp.

 

[FLTWS]

I have no experience with any Chord gear but your spot on about the Rogue. The hyper-detail I've heard in some DACs and HP amps may catch my attention in the short run but can get fatiguing fairly quickly to my ears.Long term listen-ability wins me over every time. That hyper-detail tends to become a sterile listening experience for me. Music is flesh and blood, bones and balls.

 

[x RELIC x]

Is the Utopia finicky with DAC/Amp? Does source make a big difference with it?

I find the Utopia are very revealing of the upstream gear, so yes, it will reveal the quality of your chain and therefore be finicky.

I think that besides low distortion and overall quality implementation of the DAC/amp, what works well will be a very individual choice. Some like warmth and therefore want to add a warm source. Some like hyper detail and tend to prefer bright sources.

 

[jscmd2000]

What the Utopia does so well is it adds the tactile sense to the sound. I think most people refer to that as a headphone being "dynamic". But the tactile sense is already inherent to every sound, since sound is basically a pressure wave. Therefore, all headphones that create sound also convey some tactile or pressure information. The Utopias are the most "dynamic" dynamic driver headphone that I have ever heard. It truly is an incredible invention. I can't believe the price keeps going down

Interestingly, our sense of taste is also intimately linked to another sense... the sense of smell. Most of us, if blindfolded and nostrils completely blocked, cannot tell the difference between an apple and an onion if we were to bite into one randomly. The olfactory nerve is the most primitive of our senses and oldest in evolution, therefore gets the designation of cranial nerve #1. Auditory is bit further down at #8. I guess food is more essential for our survival than headphones.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

What the Utopia does so well is it adds the tactile sense to the sound. I think most people refer to that as a headphone being "dynamic". But the tactile sense is already inherent to every sound, since sound is basically a pressure wave. Therefore, all headphones that create sound also convey some tactile or pressure information. The Utopias are the most "dynamic" dynamic driver headphone that I have ever heard. It truly is an incredible invention. I can't believe the price keeps going down

Interestingly, our sense of taste is also intimately linked to another sense... the sense of smell. Most of us, if blindfolded and nostrils completely blocked, cannot tell the difference between an apple and an onion if we were to bite into one randomly. The olfactory nerve is the most primitive of our senses and oldest in evolution, therefore gets the designation of cranial nerve #1. Auditory is bit further down at #8. I guess food is more essential for our survival than headphones.

Speak for your self

 

[jscmd2000]

Haha, Craig, you know me too well!
Maybe I should say headphones are more essential because... we are so very well fed?!
Happy Holidays

 

[TSAVJason]

Speak for your self

Ah hemmm ....yourself is one word ....you guys at MTME have a great holiday!

Keep the faith brother Craig!!

 

[Allanmarcus]

Ah hemmm ....yourself is one word ....you guys at MTME have a great holiday!

Keep the faith brother Craig!!

I believe if "Brother" is used as an honorific title, it's capitalized!

Merry Hanukkah, Brother Jason!