[Darren G]

We don't all have the same ears or brain, so might just be we hear things different.

The Utopia's do a lot well, but hopefully others realize that writing about some negatives does not mean "I hate them" or any other absolute position. I like much of what they do, and some things less so.

 

[Allanmarcus]

Could be my gear (Yggy and MJ2 with tubes), or could just be my ears/brain, but while the Utopia does a lot of things well, there is also something about it that doesn't entirely align with my ears/brain.

The yggy can be a bit hard, and which tubes in the MJ2? I have a bimby/MJ2 with warm tubes, and I don't hear silibance. Oh, I see you have Genalex Gold Lion E88CC tubes. BTW, it's Gelalex, not Genalax. Genalax is a medicine that helps old folks poop . I'm not sure about those tubes as there are lots of variants, but I would suggest you try the WE396a. You will need adapters.

How about a 50$ silver cable?
In all honesty I could probably strip some quad and braid that up, but part of me would like to find some decent silver.

There are lots of options check out the link in my dig, then use the menu to look at the Wire link.

 

[csglinux]

Hello knowledgeable open-backed headphone folks I have a question I'd like to pose on both Focal and Sennheiser threads as I'm hearing something I don't understand and would like to get any thoughts/perspectives.

I'm not trying to praise or bash either the HD800S or the Utopia; they're clearly both great headphones. What puzzles me is this - given the undeniable differences in the most critical specs (THD+N, $$$ and placebo), I should clearly be favoring the Utopia. I've heard both headphones before, but had an opportunity at the weekend to A/B both using an SP1000 with some 44/24 Porcupine Tree tracks as source. To me, something sounded a bit off with the Utopia. There was a slight harshness or coarseness to the sound that I couldn't shake. I accept the possibility that the Utopia was simply showing problems in the recordings, but most of my listening time is spent with prog rock and it's tough to find material which is better recorded/mastered than that from Steven Wilson. I don't particularly care for soundstage width as I believe that's all an illusion anyway when we're positioning signals recorded for loudspeakers right next to our ears. I'm not sure in my lifetime we're going to get recordings that these headphones and DACs/amps truly deserve, i.e., well-recorded/mixed/mastered binaural that truly does justice to a 24-bit noise floor. Given the best current recordings available, are there any other owners of both HD800S and Utopia that can relate to what I'm hearing? Could this be anything to do with that slight 4 kHz bump in the Utopia?

I should mention that this listening was only done with one pair of each headphone. I can't be sure there wasn't some small defect in either unit. (I do see a worrying-looking poll at the top of each page of the Focal thread. What has been going wrong with the Utopias?)

 

[banco-sg]

Hello knowledgeable open-backed headphone folks I have a question I'd like to pose on both Focal and Sennheiser threads as I'm hearing something I don't understand and would like to get any thoughts/perspectives.

I'm not trying to praise or bash either the HD800S or the Utopia; they're clearly both great headphones. What puzzles me is this - given the undeniable differences in the most critical specs (THD+N, $$$ and placebo), I should clearly be favoring the Utopia. I've heard both headphones before, but had an opportunity at the weekend to A/B both using an SP1000 with some 44/24 Porcupine Tree tracks as source. To me, something sounded a bit off with the Utopia. There was a slight harshness or coarseness to the sound that I couldn't shake. I accept the possibility that the Utopia was simply showing problems in the recordings, but most of my listening time is spent with prog rock and it's tough to find material which is better recorded/mastered than that from Steven Wilson. I don't particularly care for soundstage width as I believe that's all an illusion anyway when we're positioning signals recorded for loudspeakers right next to our ears. I'm not sure in my lifetime we're going to get recordings that these headphones and DACs/amps truly deserve, i.e., well-recorded/mixed/mastered binaural that truly does justice to a 24-bit noise floor. Given the best current recordings available, are there any other owners of both HD800S and Utopia that can relate to what I'm hearing? Could this be anything to do with that slight 4 kHz bump in the Utopia?

I should mention that this listening was only done with one pair of each headphone. I can't be sure there wasn't some small defect in either unit. (I do see a worrying-looking poll at the top of each page of the Focal thread. What has been going wrong with the Utopias?)

The harshness could be due to the amp that you are using and also, do take note that Utopia is known to be more detail and resolving than HD800/S.

 

[bflat]

Hello knowledgeable open-backed headphone folks I have a question I'd like to pose on both Focal and Sennheiser threads as I'm hearing something I don't understand and would like to get any thoughts/perspectives.

I'm not trying to praise or bash either the HD800S or the Utopia; they're clearly both great headphones. What puzzles me is this - given the undeniable differences in the most critical specs (THD+N, $$$ and placebo), I should clearly be favoring the Utopia. I've heard both headphones before, but had an opportunity at the weekend to A/B both using an SP1000 with some 44/24 Porcupine Tree tracks as source. To me, something sounded a bit off with the Utopia. There was a slight harshness or coarseness to the sound that I couldn't shake. I accept the possibility that the Utopia was simply showing problems in the recordings, but most of my listening time is spent with prog rock and it's tough to find material which is better recorded/mastered than that from Steven Wilson. I don't particularly care for soundstage width as I believe that's all an illusion anyway when we're positioning signals recorded for loudspeakers right next to our ears. I'm not sure in my lifetime we're going to get recordings that these headphones and DACs/amps truly deserve, i.e., well-recorded/mixed/mastered binaural that truly does justice to a 24-bit noise floor. Given the best current recordings available, are there any other owners of both HD800S and Utopia that can relate to what I'm hearing? Could this be anything to do with that slight 4 kHz bump in the Utopia?

I should mention that this listening was only done with one pair of each headphone. I can't be sure there wasn't some small defect in either unit. (I do see a worrying-looking poll at the top of each page of the Focal thread. What has been going wrong with the Utopias?)

I have listened to Utopia (balanced) with SP1000 and I also have hi res tracks of Porcupine Tree. No harshness, but glorious details. If you find the harshness goes away at lower volumes, then there is a problem with the SP1000. If it remains, there is something physically wrong with cabling or the Utopias themselves (or with your source if SP1000 was in DAC mode). If you placed a smartphone close to the SP1000 that is also a source of noise.

 

[csglinux]

I was listening only to the single-ended output of the SP1000. Unfortunately, I didn't have any balanced cables/connectors with me at the time. I don't think there was anything wrong with the DAP - it's a pretty detailed, but smooth-sounding player with no RFI or EMI that I could detect (I'm very familiar with what that sounds like, and that wasn't what I was hearing). Also, I was using the same DAP to drive both sets of headphones. I was playing direct from the microSD card on the SP1000.

I fully understand I am/was supposed to hear more detail/resolution/clarity with the Utopia than the HD800S. I'm puzzled as to why I didn't. I would have said the opposite.

P.S. FWIW, I was using a Kimber-Axios copper cable on the Utopia, not the standard Utopia cable.

 

[Darren G]

The yggy can be a bit hard, and which tubes in the MJ2? I have a bimby/MJ2 with warm tubes, and I don't hear silibance. Oh, I see you have Genalex Gold Lion E88CC tubes. BTW, it's Gelalex, not Genalax. Genalax is a medicine that helps old folks poop . I'm not sure about those tubes as there are lots of variants, but I would suggest you try the WE396a. You will need adapters.


There are lots of options check out the link in my dig, then use the menu to look at the Wire link.

LMAO. Yea, I got those tubes to pair with the HIfiMan X V2's, an overall soft and polite headphone that needed a bit more attack and brightness; it's a good pairing but the Utopia's need some syrup. Definitely need to try some new tubes. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Darren G]

Hello knowledgeable open-backed headphone folks I have a question I'd like to pose on both Focal and Sennheiser threads as I'm hearing something I don't understand and would like to get any thoughts/perspectives.

I'm not trying to praise or bash either the HD800S or the Utopia; they're clearly both great headphones. What puzzles me is this - given the undeniable differences in the most critical specs (THD+N, $$$ and placebo), I should clearly be favoring the Utopia. I've heard both headphones before, but had an opportunity at the weekend to A/B both using an SP1000 with some 44/24 Porcupine Tree tracks as source. To me, something sounded a bit off with the Utopia. There was a slight harshness or coarseness to the sound that I couldn't shake. I accept the possibility that the Utopia was simply showing problems in the recordings, but most of my listening time is spent with prog rock and it's tough to find material which is better recorded/mastered than that from Steven Wilson. I don't particularly care for soundstage width as I believe that's all an illusion anyway when we're positioning signals recorded for loudspeakers right next to our ears. I'm not sure in my lifetime we're going to get recordings that these headphones and DACs/amps truly deserve, i.e., well-recorded/mixed/mastered binaural that truly does justice to a 24-bit noise floor. Given the best current recordings available, are there any other owners of both HD800S and Utopia that can relate to what I'm hearing? Could this be anything to do with that slight 4 kHz bump in the Utopia?

I should mention that this listening was only done with one pair of each headphone. I can't be sure there wasn't some small defect in either unit. (I do see a worrying-looking poll at the top of each page of the Focal thread. What has been going wrong with the Utopias?)

I know some are adverse to equalizers, but it's a great way to find out what is working for you, or not, by fiddling with an equalizer. For me ramping down the frequencies above 12K has helped. Equalization in the digital domain will add no noise like some analog equalizers do, so its essentially free and harmless to try. Can always disable equalization

 

[watchdog507]

LMAO. Yea, I got those tubes to pair with the HIfiMan X V2's, an overall soft and polite headphone that needed a bit more attack and brightness; it's a good pairing but the Utopia's need some syrup. Definitely need to try some new tubes. Thanks for the suggestion!

The choice of tubes can really make a difference. I have Hifiman HE 1000 V2's that I love and I had V1's, I also had Hifiman X V2's. Yes the X's were laid back but very nice. My Utopias are on their way as we speak. I have a V281 and a Woo WA5-LE. I agree with the tube upgrades. I have EML 520B V3's and KR 300B's along with Genelex 300B's and Black Treasure 300B's. In order of sound, First the EML's, KR's, Black Treasures, Genelex. I think that this order would apply to any variations in types of tubes. Not even worth discussing are the standard 300B's Woo ships. They do sound terrible. For Driver's I run Tung Sol 6F8G's and they are my favourite. For Rectification I use 5U4G's from EML or trusty 596's. These make listening a real pleasure. When using the EML's all around, the sound is great, good bass great mids and nice high's. The sound is effortless and smooth for lack of a better adjective. I also run all silver cabling except for power.

With respect to the comments about odd sounds in high res headphones like the Utopia's in some earlier posts, I agree. Every now and then, I hear something that just sounds odd. Like the headphones can't resolve something. Almost a buzzing or gibberish. In fact it is a poor recording. If I come back to the offending passage the offending sound is there and only there. Even If I switch DAC's I still hear the odd sound. What is almost unacceptable nowadays is this kind of poor presentation. Producers have professional ears and should use them. I'm waiting for the Utopia's to see what they have to put a smile on my face.

 

[FLTWS]

The choice of tubes can really make a difference. I have Hifiman HE 1000 V2's that I love and I had V1's, I also had Hifiman X V2's. Yes the X's were laid back but very nice. My Utopias are on their way as we speak. I have a V281 and a Woo WA5-LE. I agree with the tube upgrades. I have EML 520B V3's and KR 300B's along with Genelex 300B's and Black Treasure 300B's. In order of sound, First the EML's, KR's, Black Treasures, Genelex. I think that this order would apply to any variations in types of tubes. Not even worth discussing are the standard 300B's Woo ships. They do sound terrible. For Driver's I run Tung Sol 6F8G's and they are my favourite. For Rectification I use 5U4G's from EML or trusty 596's. These make listening a real pleasure. When using the EML's all around, the sound is great, good bass great mids and nice high's. The sound is effortless and smooth for lack of a better adjective. I also run all silver cabling except for power.

With respect to the comments about odd sounds in high res headphones like the Utopia's in some earlier posts, I agree. Every now and then, I hear something that just sounds odd. Like the headphones can't resolve something. Almost a buzzing or gibberish. In fact it is a poor recording. If I come back to the offending passage the offending sound is there and only there. Even If I switch DAC's I still hear the odd sound. What is almost unacceptable nowadays is this kind of poor presentation. Producers have professional ears and should use them. I'm waiting for the Utopia's to see what they have to put a smile on my face.

Your right, tubes can make a difference.

Out of curiosity, are you referring to downloadable content ( "...Almost a buzzing or gibberish. In fact it is a poor recording. If I come back to the offending passage the offending sound is there and only there....), or discs as well?

 

[watchdog507]

Your right, tubes can make a difference.

Out of curiosity, are you referring to downloadable content ( "...Almost a buzzing or gibberish. In fact it is a poor recording. If I come back to the offending passage the offending sound is there and only there....), or discs as well?

My experience is mainly with streaming from Tidal HiFi (allegedly lossless) in both the Tidal app and in Roon. I like the use of Roon for some of the features that it has. I think that digital is digital. They stream the ones and zeros. I think that the high res streaming is in fact part of the issue in that the data isn't masked by resolution loss so you hear the garbage that is in there. In my case it was musical passage congestion so bad that it almost sounded like buzzing.

 

[Lappy27]

My new Utopia's are coming in a few days. I currently run Lavricables for my HE 1000 V2's I have Black Dragon V2 also. Has anyone used silver cables from Lavricables and Moon and what were your opinions about this pair? I'm also open to other cable suggestions. Lavricables for my length were 50% more in cost?

I'm a big, big silver conductors cable believer. Especially the ones made with OCC silver. All my cables (USB, HDMI, headphones, XLR interconnects) but power cables are made of OCC silver except for my Wireworld Platinum HDMI that is made of pure silver. It's simply put the best conductor. But it's also much more expensive than copper.

My headphones cable is made of 21 AWG OCC silver. Really expensive but sounds phenomenal with my Utopias. Not a hint of brightness. Only incredible natural and full sound with tons of details. Bass is simply fantastic. But of course, the gauge of the conductors is important IMO.

 

[Lappy27]

Well, I have both the Utopia and 800 S. Does not make me toss away the Senns.
Anyway, do any of you notice the vocal on the Utopia can sound, for a lack of better word, bitchy. On many modern pop recording or most pop recordings in the 90s, where songs are processed to have that added treble, I can't enjoy the Utopia with them. It's like vocal being sibilant but without the "ssss". I don't find that with 800S.
Orchestra and unprocessed recording sounds very good on Utopia.

That is called TRUTH!

 

[Lappy27]

Hmmm i don't hear any treble peak or "sssss". It might be down to my amp. ZH1ES is very warm, smooth and lush.

I wrote it before, the Utopias are microscope that will reveal the strenght and weakness of everything before them. I change my source two months ago and the sound is much smoother and fuller now. HUGE difference here.

 

[watchdog507]

I'm a big, big silver conductors cable believer. Especially the ones made with OCC silver. All my cables (USB, HDMI, headphones, XLR interconnects) but power cables are made of OCC silver except for my Wireworld Platinum HDMI that is made of pure silver. It's simply put the best conductor. But it's also much more expensive than copper.

My headphones cable is made of 21 AWG OCC silver. Really expensive but sounds phenomenal with my Utopias. Not a hint of brightness. Only incredible natural and full sound with tons of details. Bass is simply fantastic. But of course, the gauge of the conductors is important IMO.

I'm in the same boat as you, all of my interconnects and headphone cables are silver (Lavricables and Kimber) I run balanced where I can and Kimber KCAG single ended where I need an RCA. My power is copper. Custom and Nordost Red Dawn. If I may ask, who's headphone cables are you using?