[up late]

Honestly many of the newer Beyers I’ve tried aren’t all that bright(though some do lean on the bright side still) and I found Beyers more resolving than many give them credit for, I personally think their resolution and fidelity are underestimated. While some Beyers are unforgivable treble cannons, but they often respond amazingly well to modding and correction. I never really found increased treble to increase perception of detail that much, too a degree it does which comes at a cost, but go too far all it does for me is fatigue the crap out of my ears causing my ears to protest, especially if a headphone has a lot of grain. And since I spend many hours at a time listening to a headphone, fatigue issues pop up quickly if it’s a problem with the headphone.

The Utopia is honestly one of the least fatiguing headphones I’ve listened to. My personal experience is truly high resolving headphones shouldn’t cause listening fatigue and should sound very real without the weird hollowness, roughness, grit, haze, unnatural tone, etc. lesser headphones have. Also subtle detail should come across with ease like an “Ah so that’s what that sound was” “I didn’t know that was even there” without feeling forced, strained, or exaggerated. It’s just there effortlessly.

like you, i don't find the utopia the least bit fatiguing. i also can't relate to the impressions that depict the utopia as lacking balance due to it being bass lite/having lean bass. and i'm finding the subjective disagreements over which of the two focal models is the most neutral mildly amusing.

 

[up late]

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

IMO, it's important for each person to listen to the Clear and Utopia for themselves. The opinions about how they sound compared to each other, and to other headphones, are more variable than I've seen with most headphones.

not really. these differing perceptions and opinions are commonplace in the forums in my experience.

 

[novisnick]

I’ve been enjoying the Clears for two weeks now and have found them very engaging! Treble is fine and with just a little dsp they’re almost perfect! YMMV

 

[AmusedToD]

Don’t want to be difficult, but when you say that the Clear is darker and warmer, while the Utopia is neutral, you are pretty much saying that the Clear is darker than neutral (which, at least to me, is the same as saying that the Clear is dark sounding in general). And again, I do agree on the differences, I would just call the Clear the neutral one of the two.
Amping does have a fair bit to say, I did play the Clear and Utopia on the Ayon HA-3 which made them both sound warmer than with other amps (perhaps because of output impedance). On the Ayon, I did find the Clear a bit warm/rolled off and the Utopia to be comfortably close to neutral (still a microscopic trace left of that 6k rise).

When it comes to speaker systems, my impression is that they can be as different as headphones. Especially if you take different rooms into account aswell. I just finished listening to the Piega Master Line Source, which are absolutely insane, but a small bit too treble-y for my taste. I prefer the Focal/Naim kind of sound, have heard some great systems of that pairing and they definitely sound similar to the Clear in terms of FR.

I get your point, but when you say the Clear is neutral that leads to one conclusion only - the Utopia must be bright. Which I disagree. IMHO, it’s truly a reference headphone and I don’t find it a tiny bit bright or fatiguing. Especially after the Sony MDR-EX1000 in-ears (flagships from couple of years ago). The Utopia sounds warm and rolled off after a session with the EX1000 on the same source.

Totally agree with you regarding amping. As previously stated, my listening impressions with the Clear are all based on amping it with the Ayre Codex (the DAC/amp of choice for many HD800 owners, which says a lot about it’s character). When the Clear left my home, so did the Ayre. I listen to the Utopia exclusively out of the QP2R DAP (for now). I guess the Ayre Codex and the Questyle are totally different in presentations.

 

[FrostyP]

Well, I come from a high resolution speaker system and have not had much experience with headphones in the past. Never heard the HD650. To my ears, the Clear is warmer/darker/thicker sounding when compared to the Utopia, I never said it was dark sounding in general. The comparison is strictly between the two, so read it in relative terms. The Clear is also less detailed and even veiled when compared to the Utopia. The Utopia is closer to what I have experienced with speakers, albeit without the soundstage. I don’t find Utopia’s bass lacking either (majby just a little bit on some recordings, but generally it’s there and it’s fine).

The comfort experience is so individual, I really wouldn’t comment on it any further.

Now I’m off to enjoy Utopia’s magic.

P.S. Please note my Clear experience is based on running them off the Ayre Codex (unbalanced), which is known to be pretty warm sounding DAC/amp. I run the Utopia from the Questyle QP2R DAP. Never had the chance to compare the two from a single source. As I previously said, it’s a bit unfair to the Clear as I run the Utopia in balanced configuration.

Well I can only speak from my own personal experiences but the Clear reminds me of listening to studio monitors at a desk while the Utopia reminds me of, well like you said, hifi speakers. Personally I prefer the studio monitor sound of the Clear.

 

[up late]

well not all studio monitors sound alike. i doubt that the clear sounds remotely like the legendary yamaha ns10, and i doubt that anyone who enjoys the clear would want it to.

 

[gtbrown50]

I think it's useful to make a distinction between resolution and brightness. I look at resolution as mostly being a function of lack of distortion. Added brightness tends to increase the sense of resolution, even if there's not a decrease in distortion. When I compared the Clear and Utopia, I did find the Utopia to have a bit more resolution, but that seemed to be more due to added brightness rather than less distortion.

I too find that headphones with more resolution and/or brightness tend to be less forgiving of poorer recordings (e.g., the HD800S I'm listening to right now), but of course the added resolution is a virtue with good recordings.

Excellent point. Brightness, or the relation of upper frequency reproduction to lower frequencies, is often confused with "resolution" as it typically contains more easily discerned sound details. Resolution, independent of frequency, to me is the nuances of audio being reproduced without the added coloration of distortions. I use three TOTL headphones, LCD-4, Hifiman HE1000 se, and Focal Utopia. Of these three I find the HFK se to have the best frequency consistency, I simply put them on and listen.

They are exquisite, have the best natural upper frequency level, but are not the resolving champs.

The LCD-4 are extremely nice headphones, yet I have to put my Loki in circuit and put a few db of gain in the upper frequencies to level it out. Absolutely love it also!

The Utopias also require a couple of db of upper frequency "enhancement", though not as much. Where the Utopias separate themselves from this group, though by a slim margin, is in reproduction of music's texture. The tiny warbles of electronic instruments, the harmonics of stringed instruments, the whispers of echos from rooms, vocal inflections.....I could go on but I don't want to bore.

The Clear, in my personal experience, sound outstanding as a headphone with very good frequency accuracy and great detail. It is these headphones that led me to the slippery slope I'm on now.

 

[ipaddy]

On a totally different point, I now have the Clear. I drive it straight from a AK 70 mk2. Needless to say, it sounds good.

How do y’all feel about adding a Master & Dynamic MH40 as an “alternative” for a different sound, or is it in a completely different category and I will be disappointed after a while, even if in the store it sounds good? Also it’s more closed, and might be therefore good for travel when I don’t want to chance something happening to my expensive Clear.

I ask only because I see them on sale for $199 everywhere, and I once tried them years ago and remember them as exceedingly comfortable.

 

[koover]

As I mentioned a few pages back, I finally got my hands on a Clear and want to give some very early impressions. I’m going to get “very technical” and use the most relevant audiophile words to the best of ability.
After 3 days burn in 24 hours a day with a lot of headtime, these kick a$$.
Thank you

 

[makne]

Sonarworks added support for the Clear in their true-fi and reference 4 softwares. It's a DSP software that that has presets for different headphones after measurements by sonarworks. When I was an Elear owner, this software helped a ton in getting the Elear's FR right and I strongly recommended it. Now that they've added support for the Clear, I've just started trying it out again!

First impression, when set to flat/neutral target curve, is that the sound is more V-shaped. Subbass, swell as 2-5kHz region is boosted, To my ears this gives a more aggressive treble (a bit too much imo), and when there's a lot going on I feel like it introduces some grain to the treble. Bass feels tighter and deeper so that's nice.
After some tweaking I've ended on 50% dry/wet (basically how drastic the peaks/dips in the DSP are), with 2db bass boost and 2db tilt (tilted to reduce treble/increase bass). The result is a slight treble boost (not enough to be harsh, but enough to give a bit more "tightness"), definitely increased sub bass without any mid bass bloat. Overall balance is almost unchanged, just a hair more v-shaped. Increased sense of separation and space (especially in z-axis), a tiny bit more airy, slight loss of body in the mids.

I'm really enjoying this so far, would love for you to try for yourselves and let me hear your impressions! Sonarworks have a free trial on their softwares, and I believe the Black Friday sale may still be ongoing as well.

 

[Ken G]

As I mentioned a few pages back, I finally got my hands on a Clear and want to give some very early impressions. I’m going to get “very technical” and use the most relevant audiophile words to the best of ability.
After 3 days burn in 24 hours a day with a lot of headtime, these kick a$$.
Thank you

Welcome Koover and congratulations on the purchase. BTW, I’ve never heard my Clear sound better than on your rig at the Phoenix meet in September. I was listening on your Gumby/MJ2 with the short tubes and adapter. The synergy was magnificent.

Can’t wait to hear your impressions.

BTW, what were those tubes again?

Ken

 

[racebit]

I use my Clear with Mojo exclusively, and I will never use any dac other than Chord, for which we should send bit perfect only. So any software, equalizer or other, is out of question for me. Even volume control is made on the Mojo only. I can use a software equalizer, but for testing only, not for actual music listening.
With your Hugo, it is also recommended to use bit perfect, so that the dac can produce an analog signal closer to the original analog signal.

 

[makne]

I use my Clear with Mojo exclusively, and I will never use any dac other than Chord, for which we should send bit perfect only. So any software, equalizer or other, is out of question for me. Even volume control is made on the Mojo only. I can use a software equalizer, but for testing only, not for actual music listening.

alright... well let me know what you think

 

[koover]

Welcome Koover and congratulations on the purchase. BTW, I’ve never heard my Clear sound better than on your rig at the Phoenix meet in September. I was listening on your Gumby/MJ2 with the short tubes and adapter. The synergy was magnificent.

Can’t wait to hear your impressions.

BTW, what were those tubes again?

Ken

Hey Ken, thanx for the welcome. I'll be living in this thread for a while catching up as I'm only on page 67. It's too early to really give some thought out and critical impressions but I will say at this stage, I do like the synergy with my rig. Right now I'm using a
1957 Foton triple mica which is probably one of the better tubes I own....and they're so inexpensive. The thing is, they're so hard to find as they're rare, especially when you're talking about the mid 50's. I believe the tubes I had going at the meet was a pair of 1956 2C51 Western Electrics. So smooth, punchy, resolving while giving you that nice cozy feeling.

I'm really loving this headphone and can't really listen to anything else at this point.
But here are a few comments/early impressions: I don't find these bright at all as some have noted. I believe they're pretty balanced with a nice bump in the bass to make them punchy, tight and overall perfect to my ears. The mids are spot on and so much improved over the Elear! When compared to the Utopia, yeah, they're not as resolving, dynamic or balanced but for $2K less?..... I'll take these every single day of the week. I just don't think IMHO that it's worth it to lay that kind of cash down for 5 to maybe 10% (if that) more performance versus the Clear. The Clear is very comfortable, not fatiguing in the least, more musical especially on my gear where the Utopia is more analytical. The Utopia is an incredible headphone and probably one of the best out there, but I like the Clear better because it suites my personal tastes. It's just that simple and for me, no debate. I just can't get caught up and analyzing every little sound coming from my music. It sounds great as it is and I just want to get lost in the music as redundant and cliche as that phrase is.....but it's true for me at least. I'm more then happy saving the money while enjoying these pups all day long!

 

[Phronesis]

Hey Ken, thanx for the welcome. I'll be living in this thread for a while catching up as I'm only on page 67. It's too early to really give some thought out and critical impressions but I will say at this stage, I do like the synergy with my rig. Right now I'm using a
1957 Foton triple mica which is probably one of the better tubes I own....and they're so inexpensive. The thing is, they're so hard to find as they're rare, especially when you're talking about the mid 50's. I believe the tubes I had going at the meet was a pair of 1956 2C51 Western Electrics. So smooth, punchy, resolving while giving you that nice cozy feeling.

I'm really loving this headphone and can't really listen to anything else at this point.
But here are a few comments/early impressions: I don't find these bright at all as some have noted. I believe they're pretty balanced with a nice bump in the bass to make them punchy, tight and overall perfect to my ears. The mids are spot on and so much improved over the Elear! When compared to the Utopia, yeah, they're not as resolving, dynamic or balanced but for $2K less?..... I'll take these every single day of the week. I just don't think IMHO that it's worth it to lay that kind of cash down for 5 to maybe 10% (if that) more performance versus the Clear. The Clear is very comfortable, not fatiguing in the least, more musical especially on my gear where the Utopia is more analytical. The Utopia is an incredible headphone and probably one of the best out there, but I like the Clear better because it suites my personal tastes. It's just that simple and for me, no debate. I just can't get caught up and analyzing every little sound coming from my music. It sounds great as it is and I just want to get lost in the music as redundant and cliche as that phrase is.....but it's true for me at least. I'm more then happy saving the money while enjoying these pups all day long!

Enjoy the honeymoon with the new headphone - always fun if you really like the headphone!