[koiloco]

From what I'm being told the HEKv2 chains you to a desk, it still needs significant power. Even a Micro BL on Turbo might be insufficient if Magni 3 at 2W is insufficient. The HEXv2 needs extremely little but the leaking is horrible, like mini-speakers on your head. I'm being told that the HEKv2 has better sub-bass but worse mid-bass and better treble. The soundstage and separation might be better too. Vocals might be better, and the sound should be more refined.

From your previous posts, I thought you have listened to the K v2 already? which one do you currently own? X v2?

If so when you have the chance to try out K v2 vs. X v2, do share your impression. Thx.

 

[rutter]

I have the HEXv2. There's a $2.1k deal for HEKv2 right now but it seems I shouldn't bother, especially as I'd need to spend even more on a powerful enough amp (Jotunheim at $500 minimum it seems, balanced). Going to try LCD-X tomorrow, didn't ask for the store to bring in a HEKv2.

 

[rutter]

My HE1000 (v2 pads) sounds phenomenal driven by a Hugo₂ – which delivers just a bit more than 700 mW at 34Ω –, with a lot of loudness reserves left. So power will rarely be a problem in the context of the HE1000, but rather sound quality and tonal synergy of/with the source/amp.

And note that the more pleasing sounding amp is not necessarily the technically better one, it may just offer the more euphonic coloration. Or – as mentioned – the better tonal synergy.

Well, I'm being told conflicting things, so don't know.

 

[JaZZ]

Well, I'm being told conflicting things, so don't know.

I have no clue why your reply landed in the Focal Clear thread. However, you have to note that people use to associate a lack of tonal synergy or a general lack of sound quality with a lack of power – for no other reason than their imagination.

I do have enough points of reference in the form of a few headphone amps and the Chord DAVE with its ~1.4 watts at 34 Ω, which of course sounds even better than the Hugo₂, but that's not a matter of the power reserves. I could indeed live with the Hugo₂ as my main DAC/amp for the HE1000. Any attached amp, no matter how powerful, just makes the sound worse.

 

[rutter]

Yea, we've gotten a little off-topic. Back to Clear.

PS

If anyone cares, the Magni 3 is supposed to be fine with the HEKv2.

 

[koiloco]

Yea, we've gotten a little off-topic. Back to Clear.

Agreed.

 

[koiloco]

I have no clue why your reply landed in the Focal Clear thread. However, you have to note that people use to associate a lack of tonal synergy or a general lack of sound quality with a lack of power – for no other reason than their imagination.

I do have enough points of reference in the form of a few headphone amps and the Chord DAVE with its ~1.4 watts at 34 Ω, which of course sounds even better than the Hugo₂, but that's not a matter of the power reserves. I could indeed live with the Hugo₂ as my main DAC/amp for the HE1000. Any attached amp, no matter how powerful, just makes the sound worse.

I am one of those people who think and imagine...like you said. I wasn't one until I own the HE-6. I thought people were crazy driving HE-6 with speaker amps pumping out 50+ watts/channel. Generally, this kind of power is not needed like you stated but obviously, there're always exceptions. That's the reason we've witnessed HP outs on DAC/Amps increasing power output over the years.

With 1.4 watts at 34 Ohms, your Chord Dave isn't exactly "under powered", is it now?

 

[x RELIC x]

Good grief... let’s use science for power required, and our personal preferences for synergy.

Just use a headphone power calculator to figure out what the headphone requires for power instead of just guessing, or perpetuating power myths.

This one is easy to use:

http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html

Just input the resistance and sensitivity. For the HEK v2 (35 Ohm, 90dB SPL/mW sensitivity@1kHz) the results are the following for various SPL peaks:



Most gear, including most DAPs, can produce enough power to be fairly loud. Head Fi has this bizarre habit of equating max power output to quality of sound. Don’t do that. There’s so much more to synergy with headphones and low distortion / quality sources than just max power. Of course, if the gear is Current limited it’s going to not sound as good, but according to the math 52.78mA of Current isn’t much at 110dB SPL peaks. 1.9Vrms for 110dB is certainly doable for most DAPs as well. The HEK v2 is planar dynamic which means it is a purely resistive load and the impedance curve shouldn’t vary across the frequency spectrum. Sometimes I wonder how loud people listen to come to these ‘not enough power’ comments.

Now, the Focal Clear has a resistance that varies over the frequency spectrum and will need a different approach to calculate the power required. Using the PDF measurements from Innerfidelity we can see the Clear’s impedance maxes out around 325 Ohms at 50-60Hz. Knowing this I would input 325 Ohms in to the calculator along with the 104dB SPL/mW@1kHz sensitivity to see what I need to drive the Clear enough in the 50-60 Hz range.

This is the Clear’s requirements for the highest part of the impedance curve, based on the math:



Even accounting for the variance in the impedance curve anyone can clearly (pun intended) see that it is far easier to drive the Clear than the HEK v2. The sensitivity is the major factor regarding the power requirements and the impedance affects the ratio of Voltage:Current. Even when changing the impedance to the advertised 55 Ohm@1kHz and using the same sensitivity the power output requirement is approximately the same, but the lower impedance requires less Voltage and more Current. This is the math:



No doubt the HEK v2 requires more power, but it isn’t as much as many think to potentially cause hearing damage quickly. The main point is that power output is one of the least important specs when it comes to quality gear once there is enough with a little bit of headroom for distortion considerations. More important to finding quality gear is clean power supply rails, total distortion levels, slew rate, tuning, synergy, etc.. The rub is that a lot of quality gear will also have high power output so it’s easy to mistake quality sound with higher max power output. Also, headphones like the HE-6 and Susvara are very insensitive and they DO require a lot of juice, but they are the exception to the majority of headphones out there.

 

[franz12]

I like Focal Clear as total package. Neutral, good tonal balance, and reliable. While Audeze cans might have better bass, they are not neutral enough due to laid-back presence region, lacking some quality to become 'reference' grade.
Of course, there are numerous track I prefer listening to with my ether c flow or afo over Clear. But that is because they have different presentation of music which caters to my preference. And that is why I keep all of them for months or years.

 

[koiloco]

...Also, headphones like the HE-6 and Susvara are very insensitive and they DO require a lot of juice, but they are the exception to the majority of headphones out there...

That's exactly what I was referring to, the exception. The question was in regard to the HEK v2 being portable cans for me. I still have HE-6 and don't want another pair of HPs that DO require a lot of power to optimally obtain the potential subjectively highest SQ. I don't want to deal with the "exception" again.

The Clear are super easy to drive and sound wonderful from phone, DAP...That's the reason I bought the Clear and have been very happy with them.
I am now looking for a pair of planar HPs that offer same SQ as my HE-6 but relatively easy to drive like the Clear so I could be on the go with them.

Nobody is perpetuating the power myth here, at least not me anyway. No need to be HF myth buster.

Let's get back to the Clear...

 

[x RELIC x]

That's exactly what I was referring to, the exception. The question was in regard to the HEK v2 being portable cans for me. I still have HE-6 and don't want another pair of HPs that DO require a lot of power to optimally obtain the potential subjectively highest SQ. I don't want to deal with the "exception" again.

The Clear are super easy to drive and sound wonderful from phone, DAP...That's the reason I bought the Clear and have been very happy with them.
I am now looking for a pair of planar HPs that offer same SQ as my HE-6 but relatively easy to drive like the Clear so I could be on the go with them.

Nobody is perpetuating the power myth here, at least not me anyway. No need to be HF myth buster.

Let's get back to the Clear...

My apologies to all as I was reacting to a plethora of posts I’ve seen recently and this thread was the outlet.

 

[waveSounds]

So, it's now June and there's still not the slightest whiff of the Clear OEM cable being sold separately. What's up with that, @FocalOfficial? I want one for my Elear!

 

[koiloco]

My apologies to all as I was reacting to a plethora of posts I’ve seen recently and this thread was the outlet.

No need for apology @x RELIC x .
It's no big deal. I do agree with you about recent plethora of really out there posts though.

 

[betula]

The left driver in the Clear I bought secondhand from an audio shop does not work. This is more than annoying. Luckily I have two weeks to send it back, but this experience convinced me to pay full price for having full warranty if I ever buy headphones again. And if I trust Focal to buy the Clear at all. (This is the third driver failure in a Clear I know about.)

 

[makne]

So, it's now June and there's still not the slightest whiff of the Clear OEM cable being sold separately. What's up with that, @FocalOfficial? I want one for my Elear!

It'll probably be more than 100$ anyway (probably closer to 200$ considering the price of other accessories), which at that point I'd rather just get a custom cable. I had a Forza audioworks copper cable that I sold with my Elear, which I actually liked more than the Clear cables. The Forza one was more flexible and comfortable, and nicer looking imo (atlhough the Clear cable's connectors and y-splitter looks very very nice).
Tbh I am considering getting a custom silver cable for my Clear (I think the silver will look nice with the Clear's grey) because the stock cables are a little too stiff imo, but they're nice enough that I probably won't bother with replacing them.