flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Jun 11, 2018 at 4:49 AM Post #10,576 of 39,414
A double bill from me today, as my reviews of the Empire Ears Phantom and Ares II 8-wire have gone up:

Ho boy... I might catch some flack for this one.

The Deezel Dash: In-Ear Edition - Ultimate Ears

My experience with UE's in-ears have been largely positive so far. The UERR is something I hope to be able to work with someday and I very nearly purchased the UE18+ upon first listen. Both exuded great tonal balance, excellent linearity and an especially well-done treble section; reserved, natural in tone yet articulate all the same. So, walking into Music Sanctuary to hear their latest models, I was understandably very excited. However, upon some listening, I began to ponder... then listen more, then ponder again. then listen even more, then ponder even... you get the idea. Among factors like burn-in (both mental and physical), I chose to take my time with these ones, especially knowing how excited people have been about them. And, after two ponderous days, I'm finally ready to post my impressions - for better or for worse.

IP67 Connector


To my surprise, the IP67 connector is extremely robust and well-thought-out. The IEMs don’t spin freely like with MMCX connectors, but you can certainly turn the connector within the socket to better angle the cable’s bend according to your ears/head. This turning mechanism is perfectly executed; neither too tight nor too loose. Plugging and unplugging can also be done confidently, akin to using a very small XLR connector. I can’t test the weather-resistant aspects of the cable unfortunately, but all-in-all, it’s a fantastic connector that they need to share with third-party cable manufacturers. Once/If their exclusivity deal with Linum runs out, I’d love to see other cable makers take advantage of this connector - especially for their more audiophile-inclined pieces.

Ultimate Ears UE6

The UE6 thrives on contrast. Clean-cut notes dominate the stage, further accentuated by the in-ear’s impressively black background. Perceived clarity and transparency is also high as a result, but the UE6 suffers from a lack of lower- to centre-midrange body. In its pursuit of precision, the UE6 compromises on the chestiness and density of vocals, leading them to sound a touch distant, even if they’re actually neutrally-placed in the stage. I can understand why it’s preferred for instruments like drums and percussion - because of its speed, clarity and snap factor - but vocals lack fleshiness, musicality, intimacy and power. Both male and female vocals lack harmonic body, coming off as surface-level and two-dimensional. Though, this results in its decently-expanded stage sounding significantly more spacious than it actually is. It’s a wide and stably-formed soundscape with excellent horizontal separation and imaging, perfect for reproducing the left-and-right overhead mics on a drum kit. It’s very much a purposeful tuning, even if it’s left lacking versatility in the process.

The UE6’s dynamic driver benefits its bass reproduction - guttural, visceral, but not overdone. Impact doesn’t come across as swift, but there’s a certain naturalness in the way kick drums thwack into the stage. It’s well-paced and realistic when aided by the low-end’s natural tone. The UE6’s bass decays impressively though, maintaining the transparency and cleanliness of the stage. Bass lines are expertly resolved and remain well-restrained. Sub-bass is more foundational in nature, though it does let a serving of rumble permeate the stage in tracks like Daft Punk’s “Lose Yourself to Dance.” The mid-bass proves more subtle than the sub-bass, so bass notes sound neither overtly thick nor overwhelmingly rich. Following this is a drop in the upper-bass, which then transitions to a significant valley at around 1kHz. As a result, bass notes benefit more from texture and bodily presence than clarity, but it’s an adequately executed low-end nonetheless - especially at the UE6’s price range.



The UE6 has a heavy upper-mid tilt. The lower-midrange has been significantly attenuated for precision’s sake; drawing a hard line between notes and the black background for superior contrast. Clarity and focus is high, but resolution takes a significant hit due to the missing lower frequencies. Vocals lack chestiness and density, leading to a hoarse and throat-y reproduction. Thankfully, an 8kHz dip prevents stridence, but their hard-edged, clear-cut nature does get grating after some time. Tone is on the neutral side - due to the warmth imparted from the bass - but the thinness and dryness of the upper-mids remain; distancing it from natural. Instruments - especially percussive ones - fare better. Snare drums and electric guitars benefit from the crackle of this tuning. A heavily relaxed lower-midrange also translates to an extreme centre-focus, surrounding midrange notes with tons of air and increasing perceived transparency. But, in any case, this is a midrange that requires lots of consideration prior to purchasing the UE6. Vocal lovers should immediately stray away, but fans of genres like metal and prog rock may find much to love in the UE6’s clarity-focused presentation.

The UE6’s saving grace is a relatively well-navigated lower-treble. A small 5kHz peak adds great solidity, airiness and clarity, whilst maintaining smoothness due to an 8kHz dip. Vocals sound immensely focused, but more crucially, hi-hats and cymbals sound crisp and energetic. Also contributing to this is an 11-12kHz peak. The resulting stage is stable and spacious, and the background impressively black. However, the UE6’s overall texture remains on the leaner side; unsuitable for longer listening sessions. Despite this detriment in tone, drums still sound admirably realistic in impact; a result of high micro-detail retrieval, solid articulation and speed. Snares, toms and cymbals punch with great energy; as a result of the bass as well. They might lack organicity and harmonic detail (most prevalent in tom decay), but the transparency and physicality it draws out from metal tracks - for example - is what the UE6 was tailor-made for in the first place.

Ultimate Ears Live

The UE Live is driven by an immensely heavy bass response. Mid-bass impact is extremely prominent; fractions of decibels away from overtaking the entire signature. As a result, the UE Live’s stage is heavily saturated with so-so headroom. Width and height are both average for a TOTL, but a lack of depth is what truly makes the Live sound as full as it does. Its presentation is upfront and energetic, living up fully to its name. However, its immense fullness leads to a lack of spherical-ness and spaciousness by comparison. This also results in an inability to appreciate the Live’s detail retrieval. There’s not enough headroom for the listener to sit back and appreciate the finer details, but the heavy bass response and 8kHz peak also prevents users from fully immersing into the Live’s atmosphere (like in the VE8 or Aether, for example). It resides in a strange in-between that’s neither spacious enough for transparency nor balanced enough for full engagement. I don’t know whether live musicians benefit from this sort of response, but critical listening with it feels out of place.

The Live’s dominant range is certainly its low-end. Ironically, the IEM’s overall tone isn’t warm or dark in any significant way, but a distracting amount of richness and impact steals your attention away from the rest of the frequency range. I can’t tell whether it’s a lack of speed, but there’s an absolute emphasis on punch over warmth. It's not muffled or veiled in a Beats sort of way, but constantly getting knacked in the cheek via kick drum is not a pleasurable way to listen to music. This leads to an extremely physical low-end that pumps energy in to the Live’s overall signature, with barely enough space and transparency to capacitate it. Likewise, texture and clarity down low is minimal; overridden by the sheer punchiness of the dynamic driver. Tone is decently realistic, palpable as the low-end slowly decays. But again, an egregious focus on impact over everything else - combined with the treble’s 8kHz peak - creates a fatiguingly distracting signature too saturated for both casual and critical listening. Maybe it’s a response that truly shines on stage, but a flagship product with this niche of a tuning is beyond strange in my humble opinion.



The Live has a relaxed lower-midrange around 500Hz, transitioning into a centre-midrange rise at 1kHz. This creates a dense vocal image that adds even more heft to the sonic landscape. Because of this, you can constantly feel the mid-bass and midrange quarrelling for attention as they fill the stage with borderline bloat. Overall tone is a warmish neutral, but both male and female vocals are coloured with a similar chestiness. A rise around 2-3kHz further adds light in the upper midrange, which prevents instruments from getting drowned out by the bass completely. Presence is stronger than on the UE6, but I can hardly call that a good thing if it ends up conflicting with the bass response. Overall. It’s a decently balanced midrange with great density, but it would’ve been better suited in a free-er stage, or a blacker background.

The Live’s treble is defined by a 5kHz dip, giving vocals and instruments a soft and feathered form of articulation. I’ve compared this before to a vocalist placing the microphone closer to his/her mouth, inducing a more harmonic and expansive delivery. This is followed by the Live’s main source of clarity: An 8kHz peak. It smartly avoids the more sensitive 6kHz region, but the resulting curve comes off unnatural and incoherent. The dip and the peak together end up sounding splashy, with a present yet unfocused sense of articulation. This region is by no means muffled or hazy, but it has a certain honky-ness which prevents it from achieving full realism. Simply put, detail delivery on the Live is not as coherent, linear or smooth as I expected - both at this price point and considering Ultimate Ears' outstanding pedigree. Artists belting are oftentimes comprised of mellow vowels followed by strident plosives. Following that is a linear upper-treble, which furthermore adds to the stage’s saturation; lacking enough air to open the stage, and almost suffocating in its own fullness. With that said, separation and imaging is adequate - if so-so for a flagship of this price - and stage stability is decent.

Closing Thoughts

So, as you can probably tell, I had mixed feelings - though ultimately understood - the UE6, but was immensely disappointed by the UE Live. It's not because of its technical performance (though it does have a sizeable role), but it's due to its odd and idiosyncratic tuning. I pride myself in being capable of accepting vastly different signatures if they have a clear-enough purpose, but the Live is something I still can't crack two days after my initial listen. My experience as a stage performer is close to none, so the jury’s still out on that front - the Music Sanctuary staff did mention a few stage musicians enjoying it. But unfortunately, as a $2000+ flagship product in both casual- and critical-listening use cases, the Live is something I simply cannot recommend based on this demo. Here’s to hoping the UE18+ Gen. 3 fares better when it gets here.
Posted some short reviews of the Kumitate Lab KL-REF and the other tuning variant KL-REF Type-S in the Kumitate Lab thread, reposting it here just in case some of you guys might be interested.

KL-REF: the chameleon that is able to adapt to multiple music genres it is being challenged with



After a long time, I finally decided to give a more detailed impression/review of the various models from Kumitate Lab, which I owned personally, to give the people from head-fi a better understanding of the Kumitate Lab lineups as it is pretty difficult for people outside of Japan (out of Asia exactly) to be able to audition it. I have owned the KL-REF for almost three years and ever since from the day I received it, it had always held a special place in my heart despite hearing multiple flagships iems over the years. So I shall start off this impression with what I love most about KL-REF, the bass.

Bass
The impactful rumble and deep vibration of the dynamic bass has a very special characteristic that makes me feel that it is one of the most unique iem. Ito-san choice of using a dynamic driver is because he felt that dynamic driver has the least distortion in the lower frequencies. And this is indeed evident in KL-REF, as the bass produced by KL-REF has an excellent depth and texture layering, making the presentation of drums to be really impressive and realistic. If you are a fan of rock and heavy pop music, do try the KL-REF at the MAX level, it will definitely be addictive for such genre. Though the bass presence can be pretty overwhelming for some at the MAX level, but rest assure it doesn’t interference with the other frequencies

Mids
The mids have a natural approach, without being too thicked or forward or veiled. I will describe the vocals to sound raw and organic on the KL-REF, giving a clear and emotive presentation (for both male and female vocals, whereas the KL-REF Type-S has an extra added aggressiveness and sweetness to female vocals – more to be discussed in my next review of KL-REF Type-S model). The natural mids result in a great separation, allowing you to clearly tell apart the various instruments playing in the track

High
The high frequencies are pretty much smoothened out, without having excessive dips or peaks above 10kHz, resulting the KL-REF free of any unnecessary sibilance, thus you will not feel any listening fatigue even after long hours of listening. The excellent high frequency extension of the KL-REF makes the overall soundstage and atmosphere very cohesive with the rest of the frequencies.

Overall
KL-REF to my ears is a reference/neutral in-ear monitor, without much coloration in any of the frequency range. Hence KL-REF might sound pretty dull during first few minutes of listening, but as one slowly get use to the sound signature of KL-REF, you will realise the amazing characteristics and performance of KL-REF. Coupled with a tunable bass volume, each individual can adjust the bass accordingly to match his preference and also suit to your mood and the nature of the song. Throw whatever music you have to it, be it male vocals, female vocals, anisong, pop, rock, metal, jazz, KL-REF will show to you that it is indeed a chameleon of strong adaptive characteristics and is able to perform at a high level across all the different music genres.

KL-REF Type S: Bringing your favourite female vocals close to your heart

KL-REF Type S has the same exact driver configuration (2dd+3ba) as the usual KL-REF, the only difference is that it is specially tuned with a focus towards female vocals. If I were to describe the KL-REF as thick and more organic, then the Type-S will be the clearer and brighter sibling.

Bass
Unlike the natural and mellow bass of the KL-REF, the Type S bass performance can be described to have faster attack with little decay, and the overall weigh of the bass tone is slightly lighter than that in KL-REF thus making the Type S to seem to have a better clarity edge over the usual KL-REF. Furthermore, due to the thickness nature of the dynamic bass driver, this cause the Type-S to not sound too cold and harsh, and in addition to that you can still feel the vibration of the ultra low frequencies. As such, Type S provide a better listening experience for tracks that involve fast-beat bass notes and drums, and for those who find the bass of KL-REF too excessive or fatiguing, KL-REF Type S might be a better choice. But due to the fast attack, the Type-S might sound less 3-dimensional that its original sibling (KL-REF).

Mids
The mids is the most interesting part of the Type S, I feel that there is the slight dip in the middle region of the low frequencies, thus giving the perception that the mids of Type S is slightly push forward. The forwardness of the mids excel in conveying the details and mood along with the change in musical atmosphere and emotional expression of the singer. This creates the feeling that female vocals (especially) is singing right beside your ear. The added sweetness to female vocals as well as the crisp instrumentals will provide you with an experience akin to sitting in the most front row of a live concert hall.

Highs
The great extension, excellent clarity and resolution of Type S creates a very airy and open soundstage, making it very obvious for listener to pick up the details in the tracks. Even though the treble of the Type S might get excessively bright and hot at higher frequencies, there isn't much sibilance issue being picked up. Every time when it seem as if the ear-piercing sibilance of female vocals is about to be reached, with the smoothened highs characteristic of KL-REF, the excessive spikes in the highs will gradually be tamed down. This is what makes the Type S performance so attractive yet memorable without being fatiguing.

Overall
There is no clear winner between the KL-REF and the retuned Type-S variation, similarly to how a parent usually don't have a favourite one out of all the children. While the older sibling takes on a more reference and natural approach in sound presentation, Type S has a more distinct and characteristic sound tuning, with a slight emphasis on the mid-high frequency range. The more aggressive approach of Type S creates a brighter, open, more refined and higher clarity sound signature. Type S is the iem that will create an unforgettable virtual experience, where one can admire and listen to their favourite female vocals as if they were attending the live performance.

Wow, so many interesting and informative reviews/impressions within only 24 hrs. Maybe this thread needs some kind of doping control?
It's almost moving too fast for me to keep up these days...
ShadyMajesticAgouti-max-1mb.gif


Crin was one of the few individuals I auditioned the Live with (though, he heard it on my second day auditioning it). He wasn’t impressed either.
Yeah well, although I appreciate his posts and honesty (and sometimes humour) within his judgement, he also surely often seems to have a different taste/opinion (looking at the Warbler and the Phantom vs Andromeda for example) regarding iems/signatures than I have in general.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cri...ies-11-05-update.857498/page-32#post-14295510
But I guess that's also something (different opinions) that keeps things interesting over here :thinking:
 
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Jun 11, 2018 at 5:34 AM Post #10,577 of 39,414
Jun 11, 2018 at 5:41 AM Post #10,578 of 39,414
Wow, so many interesting and informative reviews/impressions within only 24 hrs. Maybe this thread needs some kind of doping control?
It's almost moving too fast for me to keep up these days...
ShadyMajesticAgouti-max-1mb.gif
The irony is that I used to be on doping (stimulants) before I came to Head-fi and those turned me into a zombie (no pun intended). See how great Head-fi is for your health and well-being?! :D
Great review, spot on and well written thanks!
Thanks for the compliments! Who knows, I might develop an ego yet. :D
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 5:56 AM Post #10,579 of 39,414
Who knows, I might develop an ego yet. :D
Now, one step at a time please....why not start of carefully with developing an alter ego first :wink:
images
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 6:24 AM Post #10,581 of 39,414
Jun 11, 2018 at 8:55 AM Post #10,583 of 39,414
Are you sure? If that's the case, I might have been doing it all wrong. That's the one downside of having a 3D-printed girlfriend, you don't get a lot of feedback.

Well it really depends on what you are trying to achieve, and how much you want to spend. Personally, I would pair U12t with a warmer cable. But TBH I am not the best person to ask for advice on which one, since I only own a handful of cables and don't have access to more. I would help if I could, but I am not up to date with what is available at different price ranges. See if it were up to me I'd say a SilverFi IEM-R4, but I doubt that's helpful. :wink:

In the case of the 64 iems, the stock cable actually contributes to their nice tone (at least of A4t, A6t, and A18t), even though the control of the bass is not very good. But, the SPC cable is less warm than a standard copper cable like say an Ares II or PW no 5, and provides a very nice melodious tone of the upper mids. Switching cables might improve their performance, but lose some of the tonal balance by making them either warmer or brighter. VE8 I generally just like to listen with Zen for example.

Nic, my son is in college for 3D printing. I'll see if he can get him to work with the AI crew to put something speciaL together for you. Types, Size, Color, Hair color???? We all need to know what your woman shootout looks like man!!!!

Hey Pete,
so, which out of the 2 cables did you prefer the most with the Phantom?

I honestly liked the stock cable best. I know many like the most detailed cables, but you can get that and still keep the warmth that makes you melt into the music. I was emailing with Nic about this yesterday.

Having a dedicated room for audio is a dream to many audiophiles in HK, possible if you don't have any kids in the family. A lot of my 2 channels friends converted to headfi because of kids taking over the space that was previously occupied by audio equipment.

The so-called premium HiFi stores were either show-room of a reputable distributor, or retail shops own by the distributors, so can only audition equipment represented by that particular distributors. Back in the 2000s when I was an active member of local 2 channel community, 80% of their business were coming from sales to local community, but the number drop gradually to 20% max nowadays.

By the way, glad to run into a headfi/2 channel audiophiles from Hong Kong, HeadFi forum is amazing.[/QUO

Well, how to setup a decent sound system is the second step, the bigger problem is the new generation simply can't afford an apartment, or they have to devote all their resource for the downpayment and mortgage payment, that why portables, DAP, IEMs, exotic cable etc before very popular.

Andy, I fully understand. I'd do the same thing I'm sure.It's too bad as there are so many great small system out there. The all in one high end systems can be awesome. Heck, I use a small Linn system under my TV in my bedroom.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 11:19 AM Post #10,585 of 39,414
Since they don't know how to get us anymore, they came out with the genitals shaped IEM.

Guess people can now fondle the nub on the face plate while their ear canals are penetrated by the iems... :smirk:
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 11:23 AM Post #10,586 of 39,414
Since they don't know how to get us anymore, they came out with the genitals shaped IEM.


Interesting, that's a knob? allow user to fine tune the bass?
 
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http://en.cayin.cn/
Jun 11, 2018 at 11:27 AM Post #10,587 of 39,414
Andy, I fully understand. I'd do the same thing I'm sure.It's too bad as there are so many great small system out there. The all in one high end systems can be awesome. Heck, I use a small Linn system under my TV in my bedroom.

If I were to move to a new house every two years, I'll hesitate to setup a sound system too.

The other problem is long working hours in order to climb up the ladder, so they tends to listen to music when while they are on transportation, that's why DAP+IEM are gaining a lot more popularity then desktop based headphone system.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Jun 11, 2018 at 11:28 AM Post #10,588 of 39,414
@Wyville,
I didn't get a chance to read the Phantom review until this morning, excellent! Nice going! (this thread really moves fast, had to go back quite a bit to where you posted it. I can't seem to get the "insert quotes" to ever work on this site).
Tonight or tomorrow hope to get to the Effect Audio review as well.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 11:28 AM Post #10,589 of 39,414
Interesting, that's a knob? allow user to fine tune the bass?
Yes, UM implemented this on their Mentor V3 and Mason V3. Here is an image @Cotnijoe posted earlier on in the UM announcements thread:
10117730.jpg
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 11:32 AM Post #10,590 of 39,414
@Wyville,
I didn't get a chance to read the Phantom review until this morning, excellent! Nice going! (this thread really moves fast, had to go back quite a bit to where you posted it. I can't seem to get the "insert quotes" to ever work on this site).
Tonight or tomorrow hope to get to the Effect Audio review as well.
Thanks! Yeah, we have had a lot of really interesting impressions (etc) posted in the last few days (and loads of silly stuff, sorry about that :p ) and it is quite a lot of work keeping up with it all.
 
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