[Docterror]

Thanks @ranfan


All noble IEMs are multi BA IEMs. Multi BA IEMs deliver sound through a tube (called soundtube), that carries sound from the driver, to the nozzle of the IEM. And so the shape of the IEM's shell itself shouldn't impact the soundstage, per my understanding. But the positioning of the drivers inside the shell, relative to one another and the distance from which the drivers are placed from the nozzle and the length of the soundtubes, could have an impact on the soundstage.

And fit might also impact the stage. Slightly loose fit with the universal IEMs could increase the airiness in the stage but will lose the definition of instruments like in the Type B stage. But a totally poor fit with universal IEMs can result in a messed up stage. But based on what I have read so far about the Noble IEMs, they do not have a super large soundstages (except Katana and Encore). Its just the way they are made and just what they are.

You should change your name from Eaglewings to BatEars

 

[vicbonaparte]

Dear all,
 
I am looking for somewhat an end-game set up, which explains why I just love this thread. Thank you so much to make it happen !
 
Back to the question, I have the Fiio X7 and just ordered the Effect Audio Mars which will arrive in 2 weeks (I could still change for the Leonidas for same price though, if really needed). The most important piece, yet still missing, is a TOTL CIEM and for that, I am very interested to hear your recommendations.
 
My criteria are: 1/Soundstage 2/ Level of details 3/ Balance, being natural, transparent. I listen to literally every genre of music but the ones towards them I am the most picky are female vocal and chinese orchestra. Excellent mid and then treble are then required, but the bass is not to be undervalued by any mean. Besides, near perfect noise-isolation is very much appreciated. Beautiful acrylic shells might bring some bonus points, but not compulsory. I don't really have tight budget constraints but anything below 2000 USD for the CIEM alone must be justified.
 
With that being said, I guess that the SE 5 - ultimate is the one to go. In fact, I've just made the impressions according to the Spiral Ear requirements today and their shipments are planned to be made by the end of this week. However, an instant before pulling the trigger, I find this thread and consider delaying the whole process to make sure I will be able to pick Mrs. Right. To be honest, I hardly chose the SE 5 - ultimate over the Noble Kaiser Encore, have once considered the W900 and somewhat to a lesser extent the 1964 A18.
 
That's that, I am very opened to receive any comments from your parts. Should I change for the Leonidas? Should I upgrade the DAP? Should I be keen on the SE 5 - ultimate or leading towards something else? Thank you in advance !

 

[Mimouille]

Dear all,

I am looking for somewhat an end-game set up, which explains why I just love this thread. Thank you so much to make it happen !

Back to the question, I have the Fiio X7 and just ordered the Effect Audio Mars which will arrive in 2 weeks (I could still change for the Leonidas for same price though, if really needed). The most important piece, yet still missing, is a TOTL CIEM and I am very interested to hear your recommendations.

My criteria are: 1/Soundstage 2/ Level of details 3/ Balance, being natural, transparent. I listen to literally every genre of music but the ones towards them I am the most picky are female vocal and chinese orchestra. Excellent mid and then treble are then required, but the bass is not to be undervalued by any mean. Besides, near perfect noise-isolation is very much appreciated. Beautiful acrylic shells might bring some bonus points, but not compulsory. I don't really have tight budget constraints but anything below 2000 USD for the CIEM alone must be justified.

With that being said, I guess that the SE 5 - ultimate is the one to go. In fact, I've just made the impressions according to the Spiral Ear requirements today and their shipments are planned to be made by the end of this week. However, an instant before pulling the trigger, I find this thread and consider delaying the whole process to make sure I will able to pick Mrs. Right. To be honest, I hardly chose the SE 5 - ultimate over the Noble Kaiser Encore, and have once considered the W900 and somewhat to a lesser extent the 1964 A18.

That's that, I am very opened to receive any comments from your parts. Should I change for the Leonidas? Should I upgrade the DAP? Should I be keen on the SE 5 - ultimate or leading towards something else? Thank you in advance !

First chose your iems. The SE5 Ultimate cannot disappoint based on what you want. I will get the AA900 soon so I can compare.

Then get a good source. The X7 was OK with th default amp but I hear it gets much better with other modules. Otherwise the Lotoo Paw Gold, WM1Z and DX200 are all great sources for the SE5. The cable...well I am not much of a believer so I would not encourage to splurge.

 

[crinacle]

In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, my W900 has arrived and I got down to measuring it.
 
Raw/Compensated

 
Neutral, ridiculous treble extension and a tiny bass bump at the end, though the bass certainly doesn't feel small. Given my sonic preferences, it's my perfect IEM.
 
Do note that the universal versions should sound significantly different due to the bore design and seal.

 

[Fiberoptix]

  Neutral, ridiculous treble extension and a tiny bass bump at the end, though the bass certainly doesn't feel small. Given my sonic preferences, it's my perfect IEM.
 

 
That's pretty impressive. I don't think I've ever seen an IEM with that level of treble extension!

 

[twister6]

Guys, common, with all due respect since I also use one of those $30-$40 hobbyist measuring couplers (Veritas) to take my measurements.  What does a measurement with a pocket coupler has to do with impressive treble extension beyond what $0.50 microphone inside of that coupler can even measure?

  They have cheap budget microphones inside of these couplers which CAN'T measure with accuracy anything below 60Hz or above 10kHz.  So, please take all these measurements, including MINE, with a big grain of salt.  They are great for relative comparison if you want to see how one IEM compares to the other, and you get more accurate measuring universal IEMs since Custom require you to make a seal with a tacky material.  Plus, the insertion of the IEM nozzle will  play a huge role since you are varying a distance between the transducer and the microphone.  And these FR graphs will not even truly reflect what you are going to actually hear because your ear has a curved earcanal which works like a filter.  And so on...
 
@crinacle : don't take it in a wrong way, bud, but do you hear W900 as being neutral/flat?  I spent last night almost an hour listening to W900 (universal) with PWA 1960 4wire cable and DX200 (from balanced output).  Now, I have over 150hrs of burn in on it.  And the bass is perfect!!!!  Not as much as Vega, but more enjoyable than Andromeda and S-EM9. 

 

[EagleWings]

Dear all,

I am looking for somewhat an end-game set up, which explains why I just love this thread. Thank you so much to make it happen !

All I can say is, I wouldn't buy an A18 for vocals. It has relaxed vocals. But it has good technical abilities.

As for Leonidas or Mars, may be this review will help you choose:
http://www.headfonia.com/review-effect-audio-mars-leonidas/

 

[crinacle]

  Guys, common, with all due respect since I also use one of those $30-$40 hobbyist measuring couplers (Veritas) to take my measurements.  What does a measurement with a pocket coupler has to do with impressive treble extension beyond what $0.50 microphone inside of that coupler can even measure?

  They have cheap budget microphones inside of these couplers which CAN'T measure with accuracy anything below 60Hz or above 10kHz.  So, please take all these measurements, including MINE, with a big grain of salt.  They are great for relative comparison if you want to see how one IEM compares to the other, and you get more accurate measuring universal IEMs since Custom require you to make a seal with a tacky material.  Plus, the insertion of the IEM nozzle will  play a huge role since you are varying a distance between the transducer and the microphone.  And these FR graphs will not even truly reflect what you are going to actually hear because your ear has a curved earcanal which works like a filter.  And so on...
 
@crinacle : don't take it in a wrong way, bud, but do you hear W900 as being neutral/flat?  I spent last night almost an hour listening to W900 (universal) with PWA 1960 4wire cable and DX200 (from balanced output).  Now, I have over 150hrs of burn in on it.  And the bass is perfect!!!!  Not as much as Vega, but more enjoyable than Andromeda and S-EM9. 

 
I think it says a lot that I'm able to recreate the advertised extension, even if it is with a hobbyist/cheapo mic. You're also aware that I've measured other IEMs so it's not without a frame of reference within my own rig, and so far the only one that has managed to edge beyond the 15k mark is the UE18+. 
 
Insertion depth did not change the extension value. It introduced random peaks in the 10-20k range, but it consistently rolls off at 20k. (Graphs can be provided on request)
 
You're right about one thing though, FR does not necessarily correlate with subjective impressions. Personally the W900 is not as dead-neutral as the curve makes it out to be, it's perhaps too laid back to be true neutral and has a too warm a tonality to be "reference", what's more the bass can be rather punchy despite only measuring 3dB north of neutral. But apart from flavour differences, the W900 is essentially a balanced monitor with powerful dynamic bass that makes it stand out from the competition.

 

[CraftyClown]

   
I think it says a lot that I'm able to recreate the advertised extension, even if it is with a hobbyist/cheapo mic. You're also aware that I've measured other IEMs so it's not without a frame of reference within my own rig, and so far the only one that has managed to edge beyond the 15k mark is the UE18+. 
 
Insertion depth did not change the extension value. It introduced random peaks in the 10-20k range, but it consistently rolls off at 20k. (Graphs can be provided on request)
 
You're right about one thing though, FR does not necessarily correlate with subjective impressions. Personally the W900 is not as dead-neutral as the curve makes it out to be, it's perhaps too laid back to be true neutral and has a too warm a tonality to be "reference", what's more the bass can be rather punchy despite only measuring 3dB north of neutral. But apart from flavour differences, the W900 is essentially a balanced monitor with powerful dynamic bass that makes it stand out from the competition.

 
Which coupler are you using?

 

[vicbonaparte]

   
All I can say is, I wouldn't buy an A18 for vocals. It has relaxed vocals. But it has good technical abilities.
 
As for Leonidas or Mars, may be this review will help you choose:
http://www.headfonia.com/review-effect-audio-mars-leonidas/

Personally, I haven't got a chance to try the A18, but yes I tend to agree with your statement.
 
As of the cables, the review you mentioned is exactly what my decision to go for the Mars is mostly based on. I can understand the hype for the Leonidas, which is completely reasonable, but to my taste, Mars tends to be the slightly better fit. I've tried both with a range of universal IEM but obviously haven't paired it with neither the SE 5 nor the W900 CIEM, so eventually how it turns out remains a big question. Refuse opting for the versatility of the Leonidas is a decision which might hunt me in the long run but I would rather trust this review, taking the risk and prioritizing what I need the most Besides, the Mars looks absolutely classy and gorgeous !

 

[vicbonaparte]

First chose your iems. The SE5 Ultimate cannot disappoint based on what you want. I will get the AA900 soon so I can compare.

Then get a good source. The X7 was OK with th default amp but I hear it gets much better with other modules. Otherwise the Lotoo Paw Gold, WM1Z and DX200 are all great sources for the SE5. The cable...well I am not much of a believer so I would not encourage to splurge.

Thanks bro for your sharing, that definitely helps. Just a small detail though: I don't want to be off-topic but could you be more precise on which X7 you are suggesting? I guess that's the AM2, as the AM 3 or AM 5 can hardly go with IEM despite being indeed very impressive when pairing with some full-sized headphones. But even between the default AM1 and the AM2, people tend to say that the AM 1 would still be the preferable choice for IEM, and I've also experienced the same thing.

 

[twister6]

 

   
I think it says a lot that I'm able to recreate the advertised extension, even if it is with a hobbyist/cheapo mic. You're also aware that I've measured other IEMs so it's not without a frame of reference within my own rig, and so far the only one that has managed to edge beyond the 15k mark is the UE18+. 
 
Insertion depth did not change the extension value. It introduced random peaks in the 10-20k range, but it consistently rolls off at 20k. (Graphs can be provided on request)
 
You're right about one thing though, FR does not necessarily correlate with subjective impressions. Personally the W900 is not as dead-neutral as the curve makes it out to be, it's perhaps too laid back to be true neutral and has a too warm a tonality to be "reference", what's more the bass can be rather punchy despite only measuring 3dB north of neutral. But apart from flavour differences, the W900 is essentially a balanced monitor with powerful dynamic bass that makes it stand out from the competition.

 
Which coupler are you using?

 
He has it specified in his review page: http://www.head-fi.org/t/830062/crinacles-fr-measurement-database-154-iems-measured - it's Dayton iMM6 iPhone coupler.  Similar to Luke's VibroLab Veritas, it does the job, but despite the mic spec being able to support 18-20k FR, it's not that accurate.  It's not a criticism of Crinacle setup or his work (he spent a lot of time collecting FR measurements and deserves props for that!), and it's not me saying that my Veritas setup and measurements are better - it's not.  I personally don't post Veritas FR captures in my official reviews because I don't want to mislead people.  As I said, Veritas and Dayton couplers cost under $50 instead of $100k manufacturers pay for professional measurement equipment. 
 
Btw, just think about it, Dayton uses Condenser mic, and in theory these types of mics either require internal battery or external phantom power.  So, your power comes from your iPhone headphone plug, and it has to be absolutely clean (filtered power) without any noise coupling in.  And then you have to come up with a compensation curve.  I almost tossed my Veritas aside because was getting frustrated with rolled off upper frequencies, until Brooko helped me with calibration (which he mastered with some help from Ken/ALO).

 

[twister6]

 

First chose your iems. The SE5 Ultimate cannot disappoint based on what you want. I will get the AA900 soon so I can compare.

Then get a good source. The X7 was OK with th default amp but I hear it gets much better with other modules. Otherwise the Lotoo Paw Gold, WM1Z and DX200 are all great sources for the SE5. The cable...well I am not much of a believer so I would not encourage to splurge.

Thanks bro for your sharing, that definitely helps. Just a small detail though: I don't want to be off-topic but could you be more precise on which X7 you are suggesting? I guess that's the AM2, as the AM 3 or AM 5 can hardly go with IEM despite being indeed very impressive when pairing with some full-sized headphones. But even between the default AM1 and the AM2, people tend to say that the AM 1 would still be the preferable choice for IEM, and I've also experienced the same thing.

 
Go for AM3, balanced amp module.  To my ears, it's the best one out of AM1, AM2, and AM5.  FiiO finally nailed it.  But as Michael suggested, other DAPs are great too but expect to pay a premium, except DX200 is still a flagship under $1k

  Loving it!

 

[twister6]

Uh, since we are on a topic of W900, and please keep in mind these FR captures were taken with Veritas coupler, here is side-by-side FR capture after 50hrs of burn in (on the left, both L/R earpieces) and 100+ hrs of burn in (on the right, only right earpiece).  Both were volume matched, or at least close enough.
 
 
 
From the graphs, looks like bass remained the same, while to my ears it settled in a little.  But it could also be a perception of the sound since I hear upper mids come up a bit, giving more clarity and resolution to the sound, making it a little brighter and with more sparkle at the top.  And you can actually see that in the graph.  As a result, bass sounds a little more balanced now.

 

[CraftyClown]

   
He has it specified in his review page: http://www.head-fi.org/t/830062/crinacles-fr-measurement-database-154-iems-measured - it's Dayton iMM6 iPhone coupler.  Similar to Luke's VibroLab Veritas, it does the job, but despite the mic spec being able to support 18-20k FR, it's not that accurate.  It's not a criticism of Crinacle setup or his work (he spent a lot of time collecting FR measurements and deserves props for that!), and it's not me saying that my Veritas setup and measurements are better - it's not.  I personally don't post Veritas FR captures in my official reviews because I don't want to mislead people.  As I said, Veritas and Dayton couplers cost under $50 instead of $100k manufacturers pay for professional measurement equipment. 
 
Btw, just think about it, Dayton uses Condenser mic, and in theory these types of mics either require internal battery or external phantom power.  So, your power comes from your iPhone headphone plug, and it has to be absolutely clean (filtered power) without any noise coupling in.  And then you have to come up with a compensation curve.  I almost tossed my Veritas aside because was getting frustrated with rolled off upper frequencies, until Brooko helped me with calibration (which he mastered with some help from Ken/ALO).

 
Cool, I was just curious as I have the Veritas myself.