[flinkenick]

Are there any die-hard cable agnostics following this thread that are going to Canjam London? How about we test your faith. Post in this thread you don't believe in cables, then listen to my 1960 4-Wire or SilverFi IEM-R4 this weekend, and report after. If those cables don't convince you, no cable ever will.
#FlinkenickCableChallenge

@flinkenick: in your AAW900 review you said that you used cables to improve its problems with timbre. Which cables do you suggest, and how successful are they at making the aaw900s compete with the IEMs you've chosen in your top 5 ranking?

Hi Chris, my favorite pairing for W900 is WM1Z balanced via Dita Truth Copper. Cable I used most on the AK is Rhapsodio OCC mk 2. I think Han Audio Zen would also be a nice affordable option, although I must admit I haven't tried it yet.

 

[flinkenick]

In other news, I think I will need to take a small break from the shootout. I have almost completed the review of #5, but this weekend I am going to Canjam and will write a show report after, and I also have to work on some other reviews. So I will not have time to write next week, and it makes more sense to stop at 5 than 4. Plus, I think we can all agree this shootout is getting a bit stale after 12 weeks. So how about we take a summer break, and reconvene say early 2018?

 

[Overkill Red]

Sounds good to me.. Maybe the break will let you revisit No.1-5 and change your results slightly

 

[Mimouille]

​

Are there any die-hard cable agnostics following this thread that are going to Canjam London? How about we test your faith. Post in this thread you don't believe in cables, then listen to my 1960 4-Wire or SilverFi IEM-R4 this weekend, and report after. If those cables don't convince you, no cable ever will.
#FlinkenickCableChallenge


Hi Chris, my favorite pairing for W900 is WM1Z balanced via Dita Truth Copper. Cable I used most on the AK is Rhapsodio OCC mk 2. I think Han Audio Zen would also be a nice affordable option, although I must admit I haven't tried it yet.

What would be interesting is to understand why these cables affect sound. It cannot be higher conductivity of silver or something like that. Because then what about the ultra thin copper wiring in the CIEM. The only credible explanation for me would be slight impedance change. In which case it could be adjusted with source, no need to pay 2k for a copper cable.

 

[flinkenick]

Sounds good to me.. Maybe the break will let you revisit No.1-5 and change your results slightly

LOL, from what I understand you guys would prefer to see all 17 ranks revisited

What would be interesting is to understand why these cables affect sound. It cannot be higher conductivity of silver or something like that. Because then what about the ultra thin copper wiring in the CIEM. The only credible explanation for me would be slight impedance change. In which case it could be adjusted with source, no need to pay 2k for a copper cable.

I agree Mim, it has little to do with conductivity. Would be interesting to know, but I think the answers aren't there yet.

 

[EagleWings]

So how about we take a summer break, and reconvene say early 2018?

I wish my summer breaks back in the school were as long as yours..

 

[crinacle]

​

Are there any die-hard cable agnostics following this thread that are going to Canjam London? How about we test your faith. Post in this thread you don't believe in cables, then listen to my 1960 4-Wire or SilverFi IEM-R4 this weekend, and report after. If those cables don't convince you, no cable ever will.
#FlinkenickCableChallenge


Hi Chris, my favorite pairing for W900 is WM1Z balanced via Dita Truth Copper. Cable I used most on the AK is Rhapsodio OCC mk 2. I think Han Audio Zen would also be a nice affordable option, although I must admit I haven't tried it yet.

I DON'T BELIEVE

Obvious bait aside I do hear differences but I reeeaaally cannot justify the sound change vs price, especially for something like the 1960s. Even for my favourite cable pairing (W900 + PW Blackicon Single Crystal) I wouldn't shell out $300 for that synergy. And don't get me started on ergonomics...

What would be interesting is to understand why these cables affect sound. It cannot be higher conductivity of silver or something like that. Because then what about the ultra thin copper wiring in the CIEM. The only credible explanation for me would be slight impedance change. In which case it could be adjusted with source, no need to pay 2k for a copper cable.

I'm actually in the midst of some practical analysis on that front, but I don't have a high-end cable with me right now to full test out all parameters. So far there's definitely something going on with impedance at least on the extreme ends of the spectrum (Null Audio Vitesse Copper against Linum BaX, which has an impedance of 1.5) but I'm thinking that the changes are lying somewhere within CSD and impulse.

Well for the diehard cable believers, why not test your faith here too? I'm way too far from Music Sanctuary to snag a cable for tests so I'll have to rely on the community
#CrinacleCableChallenge

 

[flinkenick]

I DON'T BELIEVE

Obvious bait aside I do hear differences but I reeeaaally cannot justify the sound change vs price, especially for something like the 1960s. Even for my favourite cable pairing (W900 + PW Blackicon Single Crystal) I wouldn't shell out $300 for that synergy. And don't get me started on ergonomics...



I'm actually in the midst of some practical analysis on that front, but I don't have a high-end cable with me right now to full test out all parameters. So far there's definitely something going on with impedance at least on the extreme ends of the spectrum (Null Audio Vitesse Copper against Linum BaX, which has an impedance of 1.5) but I'm thinking that the changes are lying somewhere within CSD and impulse.

Well for the diehard cable believers, why not test your faith here too? I'm way too far from Music Sanctuary to snag a cable for tests so I'll have to rely on the community
#CrinacleCableChallenge

What's impulse? An iem engineer I speak to also showed me an alternative measurement, sine wave analysis. He says its a more elegant analysis than FR measurement, and would be more likely to display differences in sensitive topics as cables and burn.

I know a cable like Linum Bax has a higher impedance, but I just have my doubts impedance or conductivity is a dominant factor contributing to the sound. But it could be one of many, hard to tell.

 

[crinacle]

What's impulse? An iem engineer I speak to also showed me an alternative measurement, sine wave analysis. He says its a more elegant analysis than FR measurement, and would be more likely to display differences in sensitive topics as cables and burn.

I know a cable like Linum Bax has a higher impedance, but I just have my doubts impedance or conductivity is a dominant factor contributing to the sound. But it could be one of many, hard to tell.

I'll look into the sine wave analysis. See if that leads anywhere.

Depending on the impedance curve of the given IEM, it can be extremely sensitive to changes in the system whether it be OI of the source or the resistivity of the cable. Take the UERM for instance:

Now I'm fairly confident that the average audiophile can discern differences of 0.5dB. 0.2dB may be a bit of a stretch, and 1dB is very obvious to the seasoned ear. I'm pretty sure that with a fickle-enough IEM and a large-enough graphical scale, differences in cables should be apparent simply by virtue of resistivity and impedance.

Whether or not that is the only factor is still up for debate. Which is what I will be focusing on.

 

[knopi]

In other news, I think I will need to take a small break from the shootout. I have almost completed the review of #5, but this weekend I am going to Canjam and will write a show report after, and I also have to work on some other reviews. So I will not have time to write next week, and it makes more sense to stop at 5 than 4. Plus, I think we can all agree this shootout is getting a bit stale after 12 weeks. So how about we take a summer break, and reconvene say early 2018?

Take break of course, this is all your work, do what you feel is right for you. But my opinion, take back early 2018 it is too much long. I think only summer break would be the best because it is from now around a little more than 1 month and half, everyone will survive it .

But revisit a few models is in my opinion amazing idea. My suggest when you will have done/written all 17 IEM, than you take back after a few month and then write more about models which you listened the most or you think is your most favorite and why or something like that, it is actually important because in longer time some things can grow more to heart.

 

[flinkenick]

I'll look into the sine wave analysis. See if that leads anywhere.

Depending on the impedance curve of the given IEM, it can be extremely sensitive to changes in the system whether it be OI of the source or the resistivity of the cable. Take the UERM for instance:

Now I'm fairly confident that the average audiophile can discern differences of 0.5dB. 0.2dB may be a bit of a stretch, and 1dB is very obvious to the seasoned ear. I'm pretty sure that with a fickle-enough IEM and a large-enough graphical scale, differences in cables should be apparent simply by virtue of resistivity and impedance.

Whether or not that is the only factor is still up for debate. Which is what I will be focusing on.

Interesting. I know less sensitive equipment makes the upper treble peaks look very peaky, but if there is a difference in linearity or extension of the orange line it could explain a difference in resolution. Plus the the difference in the mid-treble seems to fit the Linum's darker sound, but it's been too long since I heard the Vitesse. But look into sine wave analysis, if you have access to measurement I will send you a Toxic silver cable.

 

[crinacle]

Interesting. I know less sensitive equipment makes the upper treble peaks look very peaky, but if there is a difference in linearity or extension of the orange line it could explain a difference in resolution. Plus the the difference in the mid-treble seems to fit the Linum's darker sound, but it's been too long since I heard the Vitesse. But look into sine wave analysis, if you have access to measurement I will send you a Toxic silver cable.

The UERM is slightly different from other BAs in that it has less treble and more bass with higher impedance, essentially making it sound veiled and congested. In my experience, it's a necessity to pair it with low OI sources and with extremely efficient cables, and my lowest-impedance cable is currently the Vitesse.

I'm 99% sure the BaX will perform differently with other IEMs like the Andromeda with an upwards sloping impedance curve. This means the inverse; that treble gets boosted with increasing impedance. Which is why it's so hard to determine the "signature" of a cable because the dependent variable isn't the cable, but the IEM itself.

 

[EagleWings]

I believe an entire set of standard measurements that Tyll from Innerfidelity does, plus the CSD would be good to start identifying the differences. The perceived difference by the human could be attributed to the cumulative differences that can be observed in these measurements.

We know where to start. The problem is, we do not have the resources (time, effort and money) to make these measurements. If Tyll is willing to do these tests for us, and I am willing to send my Leonidas for measurements.

 

[ranfan]

Are there any die-hard cable agnostics following this thread that are going to Canjam London? How about we test your faith. Post in this thread you don't believe in cables, then listen to my 1960 4-Wire or SilverFi IEM-R4 this weekend, and report after. If those cables don't convince you, no cable ever will.
#FlinkenickCableChallenge

Spoken like a true cable aficionado. I used to believe, but now am indifferent. IMO A) some cables are aesthetically pleasing, which I can see why many are buying. And B) some provide alternative connectors (2.5-mm, 4-4-mm, etc) without converters which is useful and more effective. C) Custom cables can substitute stock cables in case it is broken, or lost. But other than that, whether or not custom cables improve signal quality, and sound reproduction much better than with stock I cannot say for sure. Not sure enough to pay that much. Maybe for the artistic value, or for limited edition cables that have high resell value, but not for sound quality (at least for my common ears).

In other news, I think I will need to take a small break from the shootout. I have almost completed the review of #5, but this weekend I am going to Canjam and will write a show report after, and I also have to work on some other reviews. So I will not have time to write next week, and it makes more sense to stop at 5 than 4. Plus, I think we can all agree this shootout is getting a bit stale after 12 weeks. So how about we take a summer break, and reconvene say early 2018?

Early 2018 is ~ 20 weeks from now. I guess we're talking about African summer (JK). OK, please take your time Nic

I DON'T BELIEVE

Obvious bait aside I do hear differences but I reeeaaally cannot justify the sound change vs price, especially for something like the 1960s. Even for my favourite cable pairing (W900 + PW Blackicon Single Crystal) I wouldn't shell out $300 for that synergy. And don't get me started on ergonomics...

I'm actually in the midst of some practical analysis on that front, but I don't have a high-end cable with me right now to full test out all parameters. So far there's definitely something going on with impedance at least on the extreme ends of the spectrum (Null Audio Vitesse Copper against Linum BaX, which has an impedance of 1.5) but I'm thinking that the changes are lying somewhere within CSD and impulse.

Well for the diehard cable believers, why not test your faith here too? I'm way too far from Music Sanctuary to snag a cable for tests so I'll have to rely on the community
#CrinacleCableChallenge

I can send you my DIY cable down under. I can send you a cable to Australia if you want. It's a DIY cable, 22 AWG SPC 4-wire Eidolic. For testing or listening. Looks like DHC/Norne, but with Eidolic wire. It's ~ $120 2-3 days to make, maybe you can compare with more expensive ones.

Spoiler

 

[flinkenick]

Whether or not custom cables improve signal quality, and sound reproduction much better than with stock I cannot say for sure. Not sure enough to pay that much. Maybe for the artistic value, or for limited edition cables that have high resell value, but not for sound quality (at least for my common ears).

Looks like we have a first contestant. Sounds like someone needs to hop on a flight to London to come test my cables buddy.
#FlinkenickCableChallenge