flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Dec 13, 2016 at 11:10 AM Post #181 of 39,414
Hello everybody, for anybody interested my review of Vega and Dorado is on THL:
http://theheadphonelist.com/campfires-vega-and-dorado/
 
The last iems I will review for a month or two, so I can take a little review vacation :) At least from iems, I have some cable reviews to focus on. But at least that allows me to listen to whichever iem I want, which oddly enough can feel like a luxury. 
 
-Nic
 
Dec 13, 2016 at 11:57 AM Post #182 of 39,414
Nice reviews
 
Dec 16, 2016 at 1:03 PM Post #185 of 39,414
For anyone interested I have added comparisons of Vega to Andromeda and S-EM9 based on reader requests.
 
Campfire Andromeda ($1099) versus Campfire Vega ($1299)
Moving on to the Campfire’s former sole flagship, the Andromeda. Similarly, the two share a distinct Campfire house sound, with a different tuning and stage positioning. Both are engaging and full-sounding monitors. Andromeda has a slightly wider stage, while Vega’s is deeper. This results in a more forward vocal positioning of Andromeda, and central positioning in Vega. Similar to Dorado, Andromeda has good separation based on its width, while Vega has a more effective layering.


Vega has overall more bass impact, with more sub-bass impact as well as enhanced upper bass. Nevertheless, Andromeda has a very nice mid-bass presence and tone. Andromeda has more lower and centre midrange emphasis. This results in slightly warmer and smoother vocals, while Vega has more vocal clarity. This gives Andromeda a more emotional vocal recreation for especially male vocals, while female vocals might sound sweeter on Vega. In addition, Vega has a more transparent upper midrange, with acoustic guitars and string instruments sounding clearer. Finally, Andromeda’s treble is thicker, while Vega’s has better definition.

Campfire Vega ($1299) versus EarSonics S-EM9 ($1490)
The S-EM9 and Vega are two very different sounding monitors, mainly because Vega can be characterized as an engaging and full-sounding unit, while S-EM9 can be considered more delicate and refined. While the S-EM9 has a very nice bass that has a faint resemblance of a dynamic driver due to its warmth and weight, Vega has more sub-bass quantity as well as enhanced upper bass. The S-EM9 has a bump in the center midrange, surrounded by a dip in the upper bass as well as upper midrange. This gives it a nice vocal presentation, slightly warm and forward, but leaner and more delicate instrument notes resulting in a cleaner stage. Vega in turn creates thicker notes, and has a more forward instrument presentation due to the enhanced upper bass and upper midrange. The S-EM9’s treble is only slightly enhanced, while Vega’s is a bit brighter.


Both have similar resolution, and perform on a high level concerning imaging. When it comes to separation, both are very good in different ways. Vega has an overall larger stage, with more depth. Because of its stage dimensions, the thicker notes are clearly separated. The S-EM9’s stage might be slightly smaller, the separation is very clean and effortless due to the leaner midrange notes.

 
Dec 18, 2016 at 5:32 PM Post #186 of 39,414
Nic, great review as always.
 
How's Vega driveability wise? Is there a lot of variance between sources (i.e. would performance be satisfactory out of a smartphone on the go?). Also, how receptive is it to different cables?
 
Dec 19, 2016 at 11:18 AM Post #187 of 39,414
  Nic, great review as always.
 
How's Vega driveability wise? Is there a lot of variance between sources (i.e. would performance be satisfactory out of a smartphone on the go?). Also, how receptive is it to different cables?

Thanks! 
 
All very good questions. To be honest, I can't answer either. I always listen to music via the AK or LPG. It's not that I'm too snobby to listen out of a smartphone, I've listened to an iphone 6 once for instance and it was pretty good, so I'm not saying all of them are bad per se. But I personally don't care about smartphones at all, so I don't spend any money on them. So mine doesn't sound very good, and there's not much reason to listen to it for me if I can listen to one of my daps.
 
However, I have read from others that the Vega needs a lot more power to drive and a smartphone will not be sufficient. If you like I can try with my gf's iphone or something, or maybe someone else can fill in? Alex, James?
 
As for cables, I have sworn off to ever buy a mmcx cable again, as almost all my iems and cables are 2-pin and I don't want to invest hundreds of dollars in a cable I can only use on the Campfire iems in this case. But luckily (2-pin to mmcx) adapters are on the rise, so I hope to get a pair sometime soon, and I'll get back to you then. Or again, I think Alex might have some mmcx cables that he's undoubtedly played around with since he's working on Vega now I think.
 
Dec 19, 2016 at 4:43 PM Post #188 of 39,414
@flinkenick, @Fiberoptix
 
So far I have only done on'n'off listening to VEGA, haven't even started with a critical listening yet due to other reviews, but I'm already starting to form a solid opinion about them.
 
From the start, I approached this testing in a wrong way, trying to play around with different eartips and cables, trying to figure out which one yields the most balanced sound with a more controlled mid-bass slam.  I do have a few mmcx connector cables, but not as many as 2pin.  Also with eartips, I thought Spiral dots gave me the best sound, until I decided to try largest size Spin-Fits again.  I like the sound, but felt the bass was still a bit overwhelming and the resolution could have been better, until I realize that all my DAPs are either in low or mid gain setting because I listen to a lot of sensitive IEMs/CIEMs.
 
Switching LPG to High Gain was a huge revelation, actually the first time ever I found the need to put this dap into a high gain.  That alone scaled up the performance of VEGA to a whole new level.  The bass quantity went down, still with a noticeable slam but not overwhelming anymore.  And the mids/treble gained more clarity with improved transparency, like a little bit of veil was lifted off.  I went back to my other DAPs, switching every single one to high gain, and noticed the improvement in pair up with Vega, though nothing paired up as well as LPG in high gain.
 
Pair up with my phone (Galaxy Note 4) was not good.  Yeah, I can get it loud, but it sounds too bassy, not as resolving, slightly congested, and even borderline muddy.  Going with DAPs in low/mid gain improves the sound in comparison to my smartphone, but the best results are when you switch it to high gain.  My current top DAPs are LPG and Opus#2, and I prefer LPG in high gain with VEGA over #2 since PAW Gold has more power.  So, that's your answer.  VEGA is not power hungry, but it needs a decent amount of power to sound their best.
 
With cables, I actually do like Ken's stock ALO spc litz cable.  That's my baseline sound.  I tried another 8-braid spc cable (some company made a review sample for me, but they never turned it into a product) and I noticed the sound got a little crisper, more detailed, brighter, but the bass quantity went down while mids were pushed a little more forward.  Switching to Ken's Ref8 hybrid cable gave me a tighter and better controlled bass (quantity slightly higher than his SPC litz cable) but mids were more balanced and more revealing without being too crisp.  I'm going back'n'forth between stock SPC litz and Ref8, still can't decide which one I prefer more.
 
Dec 27, 2016 at 2:26 PM Post #189 of 39,414
I just noticed, there isn't an IEM from the JH house. Any reason for that?
 
Dec 28, 2016 at 3:57 AM Post #192 of 39,414
Or maybe you have a disgruntled ex at JH
biggrin.gif

LOL!
 
One glorious night with Sally, but now she won't return my emails! 
frown.gif
 
 
Dec 28, 2016 at 8:56 AM Post #194 of 39,414
I hope everybody is enjoying some holiday time off. I am using it to write some reviews in advance. I have rewritten 4 reviews from the ground up, and hope to write 2 more this week :) It will take a while before I can announce any new iems or share first impressions, so I will take the opportunity to write some musings on reviewing and listening for anybody that is interested.
 
For this week's session I will start with what I consider two different philosophies in tuning and listening, as well as my personal views and preference on the matter, and why this is important for the reader. In a later stadium I might discuss interesting constructs like 'naturalness', 'reference', or what can be considered truly neutral. I hope everybody understands I’m not presenting this as fact; this is just one way of seeing it, and there is no right and wrong. If anybody has a different view, or anything else to share on an ‘audiophile matter’ I would love to hear it.
 
“Music lovers vs. Audiophile”
 
Differences in preference, tuning, a little bit on my ‘bias’, and how to interpret reviews.
 
In my review series I will be judging iems on the following categories: bass, midrange, treble, tonality, separation, resolution, imaging, and soundstage. Many of these categories are interrelated. For instance, tonality depends on the balance within the signature, while separation depends on resolution, soundstage dimensions, but also treble for instance. I’m judging based on these categories because I personally find them the most important to provide a complete picture of an iem’s performance; they are the key blocks to build a sound so to speak. Whether or not you actively judge them as a listener, they will determine how you experience the music. For instance, precisely determining resolution requires some experience, but for every listener a higher resolution will sound more natural, more precise.
 
Music Lover vs. Audiophile tuning philosophies
 
But at the same time, it’s also important to acknowledge that not everybody enjoys the music the same way, and more specifically, as I do. For instance, the fact that I personally value separation and resolution does not mean that holds for every listener. For instance, it’s common knowledge for manufacturers that the average listener will prefer a V-shaped signature. This is primarily because bass determines the energy and rhythm of music, and its presence (or absence) is one of the easiest discernible aspects within a presentation. Treble on the other hand plays an important role for clarity and detail retrieval. An enhanced treble usually leads to the percepetion of finer detail, as well as a brighter upper midrange that brings instruments more to the foreground. While the midrange is arguably one of the most important components of the music, it is ironically also more vague to decipher, resulting in relatively less prominence when it comes to common priorities. The next aspect we all grow to love when we first stumble upon the world of high-end audio, is soundstage width. A wide soundstage opens up the music, and makes it easier to discern the key features of a musical presentation, e.g. the center vocal flanked by guitars on either side. In sum, bass, treble and a wide soundstage tend to be the priorities of the general music listening population; what I would call a ‘music lovers’ approach. Naturally, this is also reflected in the tuning choice of manufacturers.
 
When you move higher in to the world of high-end audio, an accurate or faithful representation of the music becomes more important. The focus shifts from the more apparent elements of the music, to abstracter components that determine the realism: resolution, transparency, and tonal accuracy or naturalness. Higher resolution is a different way of reproducing detail in the music than a brighter signature, because it not only creates a more natural sound through realism, but allows for an accurate timbre.
To understand this relationship between price and signature, we also have to take a look at the target market. Consumers using cheap equipment might use this for sports activities or commuting to work. Increasing resolution and transparency is a costly procedure. The people that can afford the most expensive equipment (especially when it comes to the more expensive speaker systems) will more often than not be successful, middle-aged businessmen that listen to jazz and classical music; genres that rely heavily on the accurate reproduction of instrument’s timbre. An example would be the world’s most expensive headphone dac/amp system that I demoed at Canjam, the $155K MSB system connected to a Stax headphone; a highly transparent and accurate system that brings the best out of classical music, but won’t necessarily be the best suited for pop or rock music.
 
When it comes to soundstage, depth becomes more important than width. If you listen to a classical symphony or generally more complex piece, the collection of instruments can easily number 15 or more. To understand why depth is important, try to imagine a roster where every instrument takes up 1 square. Now if your stage has a 8 X 2 dimension (a very wide stage), the center instruments (or vocal) and primary instruments on the flanks will be easily discernible. But the second and third row of instruments will get cramped in space, and obscured by the first row, which usually consist of the larger and more prominent instruments (like guitars in a band). So, if you instead have a 5 X 5 stage (a box-shaped stage), the first row of instruments will be positioned closer, but the less prominent instruments or finer detail will have more space, opening up the complete picture. At the same time, we can see that despite the stage appearing smaller due to reduced width (8 vs 5), there is actually more space with the deeper stage (16 vs 25 in this example). The depth simply multiplies the initial space of the width, and this can be quite directly related to an iem’s stage and accordingly, its separation. In addition, while the role of height is less prominent, it does have a role in making the layering more effortless by making the stage more spacious. To make matters even more complex, if you would create an exceptionally large stage (in this example, 8 X 8 X 8) but the average note size would not increase accordingly, it would be more difficult to follow the complete presentation; the combination of all the different elements. So don't get me wrong, I love a wide stage as much as the next person. But a perfect stage is hard to determine, and goes beyond width. In sum, a focus on resolution, separation resulting from stage dimensions, and tonal accuracy (timbre) can be considered an ‘audiophile’ tuning philosophy.
 
How I judge, and each individual listener should interpret
 
The reason I mention this is not just for an entertaining read, but because it is important to understand that how I judge iems will not directly be related to how everyone hears music. In the end, every listener hears music differently of course. So if you give 10 people the same 10 iems to rank, you’ll most likely get 10 different lists back. If you take away the scores of resolution, imaging and tonality, you’ll probably get a very different list that might suit one group better. A basshead might prioritize the scores of bass and soundstage dimensions for instance, while listeners of classical might value separation and tonality. So while I would argue that the technical characteristics are objective traits that I try to score as accurately as possible, in a way, you could say that the combined score is actually ‘my bias’ as a listener, and won’t necessarily be the reader's.
 
My preference for music and signatures
 
I thought long about whether or not I would provide a list of what type of music I listen to as a ‘preamble’, but decided against since I don’t believe it clouds my judgment or ability to describe an iem’s signature and characteristics. I always use a full range of music to determine every aspect of a signature. However, I occasionally get asked what type of signature I prefer when it comes to iems. This is a very logical and important question, since it has a fundamental effect on how you hear and judge iems. Naturally, this is also strongly related to what I previously wrote about the ‘music lover vs audiophile’ views of tuning and listening to music, which understandably might seem like a semi-disguised bias against the ‘music lover’ approach, in favor of a more 'refined' audiophile approach.
 
But this is not the case. For this reason I’ll mention that I listen roughly to 35% rock in all forms (experimental, contemporary, blues, alternative, etc.; but not metal), 35% easy listening (vocals, oldies, singer/songwriter) and 30% electronic music (minimal, melodious EDM, trance, hardcore; but nothing too dark/alternative) as well as pop music and some occasional R&B and hip hop.
 
The reason that I mention this, is that the distinction between rock and easy listening vs. electronic music and pop makes me very flexible when it comes to preference. I prefer a full-bodied, midcentric tuning for instrument-based music. But I equally enjoy a bright V-shaped signature for synthetic music like electronic or pop music. For this reason I can enjoy a controlled and delicate bass presentation, while I also value a punchy, enhanced bass. Similarly I don’t necessarily mind if a midrange is leaner, or an upper midrange either tonally accurate or brighter. For electronic music for instance I always use cables that artificially brighten the upper midrange to make melodies ‘pop’. At the same time, I don’t really listen to jazz or classical music myself, only to analyse signatures. So the score of ‘tonality’ is actually not so important to me for my own preference, but I include it because I acknowledge its general importance beyond my own bias. An example would be the NT6pro, commonly known as a bright iem. Accordingly, its tone is not very accurate, but I enjoy it very much.
 
In sum, due to my choice of music I don’t have a preference for a certain signature. I also don’t follow the ‘audiophile’ or ‘music lover’ philosophies; rather, my taste is a hybrid of both depending on the music. In a way I feel this is a blessing, as it allows me to enjoy a wide range of iems, daps and cables - if it doesn’t work for one type of music, it will almost always work for the other. But at the same time, I am self-conscious that if I were to only listen to one of the genres, I probably would be more selective with certain equipment. It’s up to the reader to be aware of their preference. For this reason, the content of the review will be more important than the scoring.
 
Finally, I would also like to say that I don’t categorize iems this way; every TOTL iem always consists of a mixture of different aspects that can be viewed in one way or the other. This just relates to how different people listen to iems, and that each choice of tuning always has an advantage as well as disadvantage. This is something I see in almost every iem.
 
Dec 28, 2016 at 2:03 PM Post #195 of 39,414
Thanks good information. I like your detail on your first page and this one make some concise information on IEM information. I am assuming that age of the person influences the perceived signatures and these will create a variance your perceived signature
 

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