Hm. I see The E5000s and E4000s have similar impedance and sensitivity, and I thought the E4000s sounded nice on the NW-A45.
Final Audio Design Impressions and Discussion Thread
final mentions on its website the effect of “aging,” or burn-in. They typically recommend 150 hours of play before the sound stabilizes on DD models. If you haven’t done this yet, you may want to before making changes, otherwise, you’re shooting at a moving target.
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I don't know about the NW-A45, but I've used the E5000 out of a NWZ-ZX1, which is not a powerhouse, and they sounds really good. Your issues - veiled/muddy sound - definitely sound like you need more power.
Your problem is 101% amping-related. More precisely, current related but that might uselessly too technical
With the Apple Dongle, or with Meizu Hifi DAC Pro dongle for that matter there's not chance you can "open" E5000 sound.
What you need is either a dac/amp explicitly supporting < 16Ohm impedances - in which case even one rated at 30mw/32Ohm would be more than ok - or a dac/amp which falls short with sub 16Ohm loads but having such a high power (200mW/32Ohm to stay relatively safe) enough to "spit out" enough current at 14ohm anyway.
Hiby R3 (balanced port) and higher (R3 pro, R5, R6) models are ok
Fiio BTR5 (balanced port) is ok
Dosmix tpr22 dongle is ok <-- a case of a weak-ish power source with a high low-impedance current cap doing the trick
Shanling M0, Q1, corresponding Fiio models etc - forget them
Meizu Hifi DAC Pro / Tempotec Sonata HD Pro / Hidizs S8 - no
etc
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You are describing the experience I had with the stock cable. I thought the E5000 was the worst purchase I've ever made. I recently put on a different cable and it was like I was listening to a completely different set of IEMs. If you have any other mmcx cables available, try the highest quality one you have on the E5000 before you give up. It may be the case that you have a duff cable like I did -- I really adore the E5000 now.
E: as others have noted, source matters too - but in my case the biggest issue was with the cable, not the source
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zenki
500+ Head-Fier
Hmm I got e3k, still in burn-in process but it does have the above issues on some tracks + peaky female vocal
and no, it's not lacking power
and no, it's not lacking power
Hilariously enough, what probably happened at the technical level in your case is that your replacement cable has a significant impedance, which added to E5000's own impedance raises the total impedance "seen" by your source that much that's enough for the output current to properly open your E5000.
Good enough, as a workaround
The downside is that (relatively) high impedance cable = "unclean" cable = (very simplistically speaking) your cable "modifies" the sound. What you ideally want is an as "transparent" as possible cable, to enjoy "just the work of the IEM manufacturer".
With a "better" cable and a more adequate source you'll probably reach a further sound quality level.
No, it was perfect. Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for.
If I am remembering correctly P=I^2 * R. So the Fiio BTR5 that you say is ok has 1.6mA output. (p=80, R=32), Sony A45/A55/A105 all have 1.4mA (p=35mw, R=16). So only a 10% decreases from the BTR5.
Then I think the above Sony Walkmans should drive thr E5000s fine if the Fiio BTR5 can.
Thank you.
Yes and no. To know that for sure you need more "inside" info about the Sony.
Amps have some inside protection circuit apriori limiting the supplied current, which are not typically mentioned in the specs.
Take the following example:
Meizu HIFI DAC Pro:
Cirrus CS43131 DAC chip + OPA1622 amp.
Output power plate-figure: 30mW@32Ohm.
Cirrus specs report a max 160mA current output cap.
OPA1622 is capped at +-145mA.
Both officially support 16 to 300 Ohm loads.
Meizu makes E5000 totally muddy even at 100/100 volume.
Dosmix TPR22:
Qualcomm WHS9415, no amp downstream (9415 has a builtin amp stace).
Output power plate-figure: 30mW@32Ohm, same as before.
WHS9415 spec sheet reports a 240mA current cap, and support for 4 ohm to 32 ohm loads.
TPR22 drives E5000 at 30/100 volume like a walk in the park
(For completeness, TPR22 being a very "rough" as in "unrefined" product, it has linear volume gauge which means it will start distorting after 50ish/100 volume)
[Edit]
Oh, btw: the info about a given amp developing (say) 30mW at 32Ohm load is in NO way indicative of how many mW can it output at a different load. That's totally NON linear.
Also: IEM's impedances are not linear at all ! E5000 spec sheet says 14Ohm, intended at 1Khz ONLY ! Expect possible huge variances, like even +10 -10dB and more accross the spectrum (I'm not saying I'm positive this is the case with E5000, this is a general concept), which of course means the the power you need to drive that IEM, in a sense, also depends on the music
That said, it's no harm to try plugging E5000 on the Sony. Worst case, it will still sound muddy
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Sadly, they are less similar then it seems. 1 Ohm and especially 4dB actually make a lot of difference, especially for sources which are (supposedly) "designed" for minimum 16Ohm loads.
Surely. That's because E3000 has 16Ohm impedance and 100dB sensitivity. Waaaaaay lighter than E5000 for the amp
@Hooga Thanks for your patience and all of the information. The missing pieces and confusing aspects that seemed like inconsistencies are coming into focus (like why the power rating seems ok on paper but won’t be in reality).
I don’t have the Sony yet — lost my old one — so I can’t test that out. It seems I will need to change my DAP strategy. I had my eyes set on another soney because of build quality, UI design, and simplicity of a single unit. Now to go with a model a step up or settle for an amp for my iPhone that will mean more clutter and dongles. But that’s another thread.
Thanks again.
I don’t have the Sony yet — lost my old one — so I can’t test that out. It seems I will need to change my DAP strategy. I had my eyes set on another soney because of build quality, UI design, and simplicity of a single unit. Now to go with a model a step up or settle for an amp for my iPhone that will mean more clutter and dongles. But that’s another thread.
Thanks again.
RikudouGoku
Member of the Trade: RikuBuds
Its not about listening to it with high volume. If you are using too little power it will sound bad. You should get something like this: https://www.linsoul.com/collections/all/products/e1da-9038s-gen-3
A very cheap way to get massive power.
that's a spectacular device idd
talking about the "dirtiest cheap approach": Dosmix TPR22 a.k.a. Chartek TPR22 a.k.a. BGVP T01 (they are all the same device) on AE you can get them under 20$ sometimes
Forget about their published spec sheets, they are chifi-style-wrong
Inside there's "only" a Qualcomm WHS9415 chip (dac+amp).
Here you find WHS9420 tech whitepaper. WHS9415 is the exact same stuff, without ANC features.
TL;DR specs (just what matters to us here):
- 1Vrms max output pwr
- current cap 240mA
- supported output loads 4 - 32Ohm
It drives E5000 / E4000 like a walk in the park. Way "more powerful" then even BTR5/Balanced. Fails miserably vs full size cans of course
Sound quality is also not crap. In line with Meizu. BTR5 is better SQ wise but look at the price again
Can anybody recommend balanced 2.5mm cables for the E5000 to use with a BTR5? It has 3x the power on its balanced jack. I‘d like to spend well under 100. I’ve just never bought after market cables at all, and this is my first time getting into balanced audio, which seems like snake oil, except on the source side where they sometimes have more power or better chips.
What do I want to look for? Copper? More cores are better? Lowest impedance possible? Should a $20 cable on Amazon give me at least the same quality I had with the factory cable?
What do I want to look for? Copper? More cores are better? Lowest impedance possible? Should a $20 cable on Amazon give me at least the same quality I had with the factory cable?
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