[originalsnuffy]

Dlna, wifi, aptx, and wisa all make sense.

Nobody likes the msata idea? 1TB machine ?

 

[awayeah]

Dlna, wifi, aptx, and wisa all make sense.

Nobody likes the msata idea? 1TB machine ?

mSATA is a great idea but I don't know whether it's possible in such a small device - especially as self-install component. But I think FiiO should think about (if it's possible) pre-installing it (128GB seems reasonable since it would cost like 60$) and the player would be crazy fast. 1TB is way to expensive. It would make much more sense to connect DAP via OTG with external small hard drive or SSD.

 

[zinzoeker]

Dlna, wifi, aptx, and wisa all make sense.

Nobody likes the msata idea? 1TB machine ?

ofcourse we need at least 1TB in a device not bigger than the X1 or X5 with a battery that can last at least 50 or more hours with dlna, wifi, blue tooth enabled.

 

[514077]

  Does that happen for others? I've never had that problem.

Many's the time one of my boys let me listen to something on their smartphone, and I'd accidently touch the screen while holding it.  Besides, I can't use them easily.  Not saying my needs over ride other people's.  Just my vote.

 

[514077]

By the way, I've forgotten, what's DLNA?  I also like the matching external battery pack idea.  Didn't one of the HM-XXXs have one?

 

[originalsnuffy]

I am sure they could design a slot to properly hold a mSATA card.  I might purchase 240gb; you might purchase 128gb, somebody else might purchase 1TB.  That is why I suggest it be user installed.
 
Look at how much activity there is on the ipod mod threads related to mSATA adapters. 
 
I could easily fill a high end unit above the 128gb limit of SDXC.

 

[Ripvanlink]

   
+1
 
And a smoother, more intiutive use of playlists which you can tweak (personalize).
And I go for a replacable battery. 

Why, oh why would anybody want a non-replaceable battery? I don't understand?

 

[marcswede]

Why, oh why would anybody want a non-replaceable battery? I don't understand?

They are bigger and require more space. Perhaps not by much, but when you're trying to make a high end compact DAP you will fight with size all of the time.

Look at the Pono. Neil Young refused to compromise with the cap size and thats why it looks like a Toblerone.

 

[Ripvanlink]

Okay, markswede, I get it, makes sense,  thanks. Heh heh, yes, it does look an awful lot like Toblerone, very good!

 

[Retrias]

they havent actually finalized the actual design right?, The spec is finalized I think

 

[Bellyworshipper]

Here is interesting news (at least for some) from ESS camp (ES 9018 DAC, which is allegedly to be used in X7): "ESS Technology launches the SABRE9601K, the world's highest performance headphone amplifier" (http://www.ismosys.com/news/latest_news/news_ess_technology_launches_the_worlds_highest_performance_headphone_amplifier.htm)
I think, it would be rational for FiiO to investigate the possibility and advantages of using such an amplifier in X7. The SABRE9601K amplifier will probably lack the output power, especially for those users demanding the X7 to be able to drive even high impedance cans, and it has comparatively low, according to the specs on the page, THD+N (though SNR is slightly higher than of DX90, for example, if not to mention that DX90's SNR value specified is more "real world")but...What if? SABRE9601K is a ready solution, implementing which, as it seems, may help FiiO lower the development costs.
REGARDING THE NECESSITY OF ANALOG VOLUME CONTROL FOR ES 9018 DAC TO SUPPORT PURE DSD: People, has anyone concerned himself with verifying the fact of analog volume control indispensability for "native DSD support"? Or might we just confuse DAC internal volume control mechanism and DSD signal to PCM convertion on some audio recording studio equipment for audio mastering purposes. I had an idea of writing to ESS myself on this matter, but the ESS's contact form suggests me to be a USA resident and the text message is titled as "PROBLEM", while my concern is clearly a personal question. So, I guess, they will never respond   

 

[OtakuShawn]

1. A volume knob
2. as wide as iphone 5? or e12?
3. touch screen preferred
4. UI : Ability to rate songs 1-5 stars?,  ability to scroll through songs categorised by alphabets?
5. Asahi Kasei Microdevices chips 
6. micro SD slot [ 1 or 2 ]
7. Internal memory [ 8gb or none at all since using a usb 3.0 card reader transfers as a faster rate ]
8. Headphone Out, Line Out, Coaxial Out, Balanced Out [ can be like x1 where you can switch between HO and LO ]
9. Bluetooth, WIFI
10. USB DAC CAPABLE
11. amps used in x5 or better :v
12. Cost Less than 700 usd
13. sell a stacking kit accessory like the HS6 for the X7

14. If it has a nice design/outlook : + 100 usd

 

[Stuff Jones]

This is probably too late but I think there's a significant unexploited market for a sleek, user friendly hi fi dap in the 500 dollar range.
 
In the past there were plenty of people into hi fi who were audiophile dorks. Now that audio has gone portable, those people are willing to spend money for a good sound player but want it to look good and work easily too.
 
The DAP wouldn't cater to audiophile nerds with features like USB OTG or DAC function. It wouldn't need to power huge cans either. I think manufacturers are limiting their market by including those features at the expense of a better looking and functioning DAP. 
 
It would simply be small, good looking with good build, work flawlessly, have enough storage,  have good battery life and of course have excellent, excellent sound quality. For me personally, I'd be willing to pay 500 dollars for a DAP meeting that description.
 
You see non-audiophiles spending good money on headphones but I don't think think most of them have a source that takes advantage the headphones. That's the market DAP makers should be aiming at.

 

[maeschba]

This is probably too late but I think there's a significant unexploited market for a sleek, user friendly hi fi dap in the 500 dollar range.

In the past there were plenty of people into hi fi who were audiophile dorks. Now that audio has gone portable, those people are willing to spend money for a good sound player but want it to look good and work easily too.

The DAP wouldn't cater to audiophile nerds with features like USB OTG or DAC function. It wouldn't need to power huge cans either. I think manufacturers are limiting their market by including those features at the expense of a better looking and functioning DAP. 

It would simply be small, good looking with good build, work flawlessly, have enough storage,  have good battery life and of course have excellent, excellent sound quality. For me personally, I'd be willing to pay 500 dollars for a DAP meeting that description.

You see non-audiophiles spending good money on headphones but I don't think think most of them have a source that takes advantage the headphones. That's the market DAP makers should be aiming at.

Judging from the sound quality of my Sony NWZ-FF886, the new small Sony with MicroSD slot should already occupy this place (if it accepts a 128gb card which I don't know).

 

[tomscy2000]

Here is interesting news (at least for some) from ESS camp (ES 9018 DAC, which is allegedly to be used in X7): "ESS Technology launches the SABRE9601K, the world's highest performance headphone amplifier" (http://www.ismosys.com/news/latest_news/news_ess_technology_launches_the_worlds_highest_performance_headphone_amplifier.htm) I think, it would be rational for FiiO to investigate the possibility and advantages of using such an amplifier in X7. The SABRE9601K amplifier will probably lack the output power, especially for those users demanding the X7 to be able to drive even high impedance cans, and it has comparatively low, according to the specs on the page, THD+N (though SNR is slightly higher than of DX90, for example, if not to mention that DX90's SNR value specified is more "real world")but...What if? SABRE9601K is a ready solution, implementing which, as it seems, may help FiiO lower the development costs. REGARDING THE NECESSITY OF ANALOG VOLUME CONTROL FOR ES 9018 DAC TO SUPPORT PURE DSD: People, has anyone concerned himself with verifying the fact of analog volume control indispensability for "native DSD support"? Or might we just confuse DAC internal volume control mechanism and DSD signal to PCM convertion on some audio recording studio equipment for audio mastering purposes. I had an idea of writing to ESS myself on this matter, but the ESS's contact form suggests me to be a USA resident and the text message is titled as "PROBLEM", while my concern is clearly a personal question. So, I guess, they will never respond   

 
I mentioned this months ago, but nice link; first I've seen of the THD performance in conjunction with the ES9018K2M.
 

  Just found out about this topic. M2C...
 
What is the target product here? The X7? Or some other product? For now, I'll assume we're addressing the design features of the X7...
 
With respect to power saving, from spec sheets, the ES9018S consumes 100 mW of power during operation, while the ES9018K2M consumes 40 mW, with a 10 mW low power state. If we go with two of them, then that's 80 mW operational power, and 20 mW in low power. How will that reflect in terms of battery life? If we're talking about the X7, and it indeed is an Android-based device with a large ~4" capacitative touchscreen, then it's pretty important that we try to save power anywhere possible.
 
In fact, for power saving measures, I'd even go as far as to suggest a separate and independent "mid-fi" mode in the X7, where the main circuit is perhaps derived from the X1, with a PCM5122 or ES9016K2M and perhaps a lower-power chip amp (e.g. MAX97220A, ES9601, TPA6130A2, etc.) that provides decent sound quality at a fraction of the power consumption, for times when SQ is not paramount, i.e. loud environments that prevent a user from doing critical listening. Then, when desired, the user can switch to "hi-fi" mode to consume more power, and with balanced output.
 
With all that being said, I agree with the sentiment that designs shouldn't be confined only to the choice of ESS chips merely because they're a popular choice and that audiophiles tend to have a positive opinion of them. Personally, I find that well-designed PCM1792A topologies compete every bit as well against ESS designs.
 
The key phrase here is well-designed. Anything can sound extremely good with any high-quality DAC chip, high-quality I/V conversion, and high-quality amplification stage, and precise power regulation. The size of the X7 needs to be informed by the parts that are necessary for high-end performance centered around a SMD-centric board layout. With SMD components front and center, the power supply rails should be highly regulated and consequently low-impedance, with parts specified for least ripple effect. The LPF design should contain capacitor components just big and robust enough to sound good, but not unnecessarily big (like some brands like to do, by bragging that they use desktop components in portable gear, even though the benefits, if any, are near imperceptible.)
 
The performance specs of most top-end DAC chips aren't usually met in the majority of designs. If you can achieve >120 dB SNR, out of ground-centered 2 Vrms outputs, you're already at an elite level ---- a level where most manufacturers charge >$1000 for the product in question. If you can achieve <0.0008 THD+N out of your headphone outputs, then you're at an elite level. So, using whatever flagship level DAC chip, regardless of whether it's the ES9018S, ES9018K2M, PCM1792A, AK4399, WM8741, etc. is already superfluous. The question is layout and design. There is the added question of the choice of digital filters built-in to each DAC product --- some use traditional FIR linear-phase filters, others give the option of using IIR minimum-phase filters, and with slow or hard roll-off variants. Choosing between these filter designs is pretty important as well, unless FiiO chooses to implement their own digital filter (which can be costly for R&D).
 
Thus, I believe the choice between the ES9018S and (2×) ES9018K2M should be a design and layout issue, rather than a feature-related issue. I think the bigger question is whether it's easier to rid of DC offset with decoupling capacitors in the 9018S or 9018K2M --- will the decoupling path be short enough? Will the smaller form factor of the 9018K2M allow for more advantageous placement of clocks? Will the lower operating voltage of the K2M result in a greater or lesser ability to reject power noise from the AVcc? These are the questions that I'm sure FiiO engineers are looking to answer for themselves when testing different design paradigms, and I believe they should be free to make those decisions free from market pressure.