[JamesFiiO]

   
How does losing optical input considered as "more features". It has gained features and lost features.
 
Many others have shared disappointment at the loss of optical input.

 
 
It is because our DAP only have coaxial output. for playstation, we have D03K.

 

[JamesFiiO]

It is because our DAP only have coaxial output. for playstation, we have D03K.

 

[bowei006]

Anybody want any early impressions on it? I've had one for a few weeks

 

[howdy]

Anybody want any early impressions on it? I've had one for a few weeks

I do, I do, I do...

 

[howdy]

Possibly with a iPod classic as this is what it will be for.

 

[bowei006]

I haven't used an iPod Classic in YEARS!
 
I filmed the unboxin and general operation of the unit about 2 weeks ago. Now that it's been announced, I'll go ahead and post it online.
 
I haven't given it a listen yet though. Only played around with the operation. 
 
 
What I can tell you is that the operation of it is quite 'weird. You pretty much use the left scroll wheel for menu operation. It clicks down to access the menu and then clicks again to access the sub menus (such as BASS, TREBLE etc). After you get in there, you scroll to change it, and then click once to 'go back' out.
 
You don't use any other buttons but the scroll wheel. The ONLY exception is with settings with more than on sub menu such as the firmware one. You use the 'exit' button on the front then.
 
 

 
 
The Alpen 2 features much lighter construction than the first. Gone are the thick feeling metal 'case' and the semi-weird volume buttons near the screen. They've taken ideas from the E11 and analog potentiometer units and put it on the new Alpen 2. This time though, it's not a real analog potentiometer but a digital one modeled to be 'like' an analog one. Not bad. The only problem is the 'click' part of it.
 
Due to how these units are going to be in ones pocket in weird orientations as one is out and about (portable unit), it is easy to press the 'menu access' button by clicking the volume controller (needs only a light tap). IT's going to take a week of getting used to how much pressure you put on it.
 
 
 
That's all I have for now

 

[stronge]

I've registered here just to write this comment.
You guys in Fiio have just lost a bunch of iRiver H1*0 users to iBasso and other brands. I believe it would be better and more logical to sacrifice line-in for the sake of more portable analogue-only headphone amps, thus leaving E17K an "all-digital" device. But I really can't see any point in removing the optical input. I use E17 as an amp/DAC with my iRiver H-120 (rockbox+SSD) and as a DAC with my laptop to get an identical sound on both devices. I would very much like to see E17K being able to play 24/192 off it's USB input and maybe have a better DAC chip. But now if I want to upgrade my E17 I'll just have to choose among other manufacturers...

 

[bowei006]

The lack of a digital output is quite of a concern. 
 
However, FiiO has the numbers, feedback, and idea of what the mass majority of users use the E17 for and it seems they are standing by their decision to add new features (DSD and audio improvements) ahead of digital output.
 
They are offering their D03K as a SPDIF output for users like you. But the issue remains that the D03K isn't a unit an audiophile would buy. I don't know it's sonic quality as I've never used it.
 
 
I would recommend that if this issue is a truly big problem for the community. That you guys should make a seperate thread with a poll or something as a way to raise attention to your qualms and lobby for a possible change (highly unlikely) or a future device that features 'jack of all trades' like utility.
 
 
Whilst DSD is a trait that many audiophiles would prefer their devices to support. I honestly don't know more than a handful of users that have more than a few albums of songs in DSD format. I have a few around for testing, but that is really it. 
 
But hey, draw up that poll/thread and lobby for a change if you guys feel so. FiiO is quite suportive of user criticsm and community wishes in devices. 

 

[RedJohn456]

  The lack of a digital output is quite of a concern. 
 
However, FiiO has the numbers, feedback, and idea of what the mass majority of users use the E17 for and it seems they are standing by their decision to add new features (DSD and audio improvements) ahead of digital output.
 
They are offering their D03K as a SPDIF output for users like you. But the issue remains that the D03K isn't a unit an audiophile would buy. I don't know it's sonic quality as I've never used it.
 
 
I would recommend that if this issue is a truly big problem for the community. That you guys should make a seperate thread with a poll or something as a way to raise attention to your qualms and lobby for a possible change (highly unlikely) or a future device that features 'jack of all trades' like utility.
 
 
Whilst DSD is a trait that many audiophiles would prefer their devices to support. I honestly don't know more than a handful of users that have more than a few albums of songs in DSD format. I have a few around for testing, but that is really it. 
 
But hey, draw up that poll/thread and lobby for a change if you guys feel so. FiiO is quite suportive of user criticsm and community wishes in devices. 

 
See Fiio says that the D03 is for users like us but lets not kid ourselves that the D03K sounds anywhere near as good as the Fiio E17. That was the beauty of it, a jack of all trades device which can be used with my laptop, desktop, phone and gaming console of choice. Guess I will have to look at another brand then.

 

[AUserName501]

 

Spoiler: Quote: JamesFiiO

 

   
 
It is because our DAP only have coaxial output. for playstation, we have D03K.

 

 

Spoiler: Quote: RedJohn456

Originally Posted by RedJohn456 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
See Fiio says that the D03 is for users like us but lets not kid ourselves that the D03K sounds anywhere near as good as the Fiio E17. That was the beauty of it, a jack of all trades device which can be used with my laptop, desktop, phone and gaming console of choice. Guess I will have to look at another brand then.

 
I think it's hilarious that they think people are going to buy the D03k. If they made a DAC with optical input at the quality of the Hifimediy Sabre DAC then I'd buy it because it's at such a good price and performs extremely well.
 

Spoiler: Quote: bowei006

Originally Posted by bowei006 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

They are offering their D03K as a SPDIF output for users like you. But the issue remains that the D03K isn't a unit an audiophile would buy. I don't know it's sonic quality as I've never used it.

 
This is so true. I'll copy paste what I wrote originally:
 

  The E17k losing optical input is by far one of the biggest losses for me personally and for many others. I understand that Fiio views the E17k as the DAC in the combined DAC+Amp combination of the E17k + E09s and therefore values DSD and 32/96 (placebo) over optical input. They probably had to make some tough choices in what to use and decided that the loss of optical input was worth the gain of DSD and 32/96. It's a real shame because many of the devices I would connect to only have optical output and that I must either continue to use the E17 (discontinued) or get a Modi 2 Optical/Uber or an AudioEngine D1.
 
The E17 was a swiss army knife that I really appreciated at its price but I don't value 32/96 and DSD on the E17k over optical input. If I had to choose then I'd rather have optical. I understand that Fiio was possibly in a tough situation but I guess I'm still disappointed.

It is quite a serious blow for me that the E17k doesn't support optical input. The reason is that many use soundcards such as the Sound Blaster Z for virtual surround sound and then output that virtual surround sound processed, stereo PCM digital audio from the soundcard via optical to a DAC with optical input. The reason this is done is because it allows you to use whatever DAC and amplifier you want while also having virtual surround sound. These soundcards do not have coaxial output. It would mean that I'd have to use the older E17(not E17k) which supports optical input, a Modi 2 optical/uber or Audioengine D1.

 
I understand that Fiio is trying to sell the E09s/E17k as a complete package and that have clearly prioritised other features such as DSD and 32/96 as a result over the swiss army knife approach of the E17. I have far more use for optical input than coaxial though part of the appeal of the E17 was it had both. The problem with the E09k is just how good value the Magni 2 is. The E09k was always worse value than the Magni, had a higher output impedance and lower power output. This may not be true of the E09s.
 
I don't think it's worth creating a poll as Fiio isn't going to redesign the E17k just to add optical input. Perhaps, they'd like to design something with the feature equivalent of the E17 but I think that is unlikely to happen. Hopefully, this thread will make them reconsider that. The value of the E17 was that it had so many different inputs, small, had a battery and had decent enough power output to power normal headphones and IEMs. I don't care about placebo 32/96 or DSD. Even in the audiophile market the amount of people interested in DSD is small and those people tend to have more money than sense.

 

[JamesFiiO]

something need to share with you guys.
 
1, We will rename our products line up in the future, and the DAC/AMP will be called as Q series. and the ALPEN II (E17K) will be renamed as Q3 ( My wife drives an Audi Q3, 

).
 
2, There will be a flagship DAC/AMP called Q5 .
 
3, Our strategy is , once we find the price position is correct, we will keep the same price level but try to improve the design and features in the next generation .
 
4, About the DAC/AMP + Dock Amp like E17+E09K, to be honest, it is a stupid idea because the feedback is not reasonable. to me, it will be better to spend the time and resource in other projects .
 
    but as you can see, it is good for our user when they try to pair with some big cans at home.
 
5, You guys can tell me what you need in our new DAC/AMP Q5, so far we have not decided anything about it. but it is not a slim design and not a cheap one , the  benchmarking of Q5 is SONY PHA-3.
 
   so we have enough space and  budget for all the features and the best performance you needs. 
 
6, for E17K, we are not going to change the design, please understand us cause there will have less and less portable device which supports optical output and the cable is a problem too. 
 
 
 
 

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: JamesFiiO

 

  something need to share with you guys.
 
1, We will rename our products line up in the future, and the DAC/AMP will be called as Q series. and the ALPEN II (E17K) will be renamed as Q3 ( My wife drives an Audi Q3, 

).
 
2, There will be a flagship DAC/AMP called Q5 .
 
3, Our strategy is , once we find the price position is correct, we will keep the same price level but try to improve the design and features in the next generation .
 
4, About the DAC/AMP + Dock Amp like E17+E09K, to be honest, it is a stupid idea because the feedback is not reasonable. to me, it will be better to spend the time and resource in other projects .
 
    but as you can see, it is good for our user when they try to pair with some big cans at home.
 
5, You guys can tell me what you need in our new DAC/AMP Q5, so far we have not decided anything about it. but it is not a slim design and not a cheap one , the  benchmarking of Q5 is SONY PHA-3.
 
   so we have enough space and  budget for all the features and the best performance you needs. 
 
6, for E17K, we are not going to change the design, please understand us cause there will have less and less portable device which supports optical output and the cable is a problem too. 

 

 

About the DAC/AMP + Dock Amp like E17+E09K, to be honest, it is a stupid idea because the feedback is not reasonable. to me, it will be better to spend the time and resource in other projects. But as you can see, it is good for our user when they try to pair with some big cans at home.

 
 
What feedback are you referencing too?
 
I thought the E17k docking into the E09s was the unique feature of Fiio from an aesthetics perspective. Some people really like that setup. I thought you might also allow the Fiio X5 to dock to the E09s.
 
 

  You guys can tell me what you need in our new DAC/AMP Q5, so far we have not decided anything about it. but it is not a slim design and not a cheap one , the  benchmarking of Q5 is SONY PHA-3. So we have enough space and  budget for all the features and the best performance you needs.

 
I don't buy Fiio for large and expensive DACs and amps. The appeal of Fiio to me is good performance, small products with great build quality. I'm sure you'll continue to make the Q5 but I'm personally not interested in the expensive Fiio products. A Modi 2 Uber + Magni 2 offers all the functionality (optical + USB input) and power I would need and it only costs $250. I could just keep my E17 and use it with the Magni 2.
 
 
Your DAP lineup doesn't even have a parametric equaliser and would be of more interest to me if it had Rockbox support. At the moment I've got a $30 Rockboxed Sansa Clip+ that has more functionality than DAPs that cost thousands of dollars.
 
The Q5 functionality should include:
 

1. Digital volume control through a volume control chip.
   
   No channel imbalance with IEMs but still have plenty of power for fullsize headphones. I think 1W into 32ohms should be the target because I see the Magni 2 as the real competition.
    
2. Optical, coaxial, USB, auxillary input
3. 1/4" jack
4. Parametric equaliser. Very few products have this but it really would be a defining feature and it's something I would most definitely use. I'd actually buy the Q5 for this alone.
5. Output impedance under 1ohm

 

  6, for E17K, we are not going to change the design, please understand us cause there will have less and less portable device which supports optical output and the cable is a problem too.

 
I'll continue using my E17.
 
Can you tell me if these measurements of the E17 were from a faulty unit. The E17 is on page 7 of 21. The THD%+Noise vs Output Vrms measurement is extremely high.

 

[JamesFiiO]

 
What feedback are you referencing too?
 
I thought the E17k docking into the E09s was the unique feature of Fiio from an aesthetics perspective. Some people really like that setup. I thought you might also allow the Fiio X5 to dock to the E09s.
 
I don't buy Fiio for large and expensive DACs and amps. The appeal of Fiio to me is good performance, small products with great build quality. I'm sure you'll continue to make the Q5 but I'm personally not interested in the expensive Fiio products. A Modi 2 Uber + Magni 2 offers all the functionality (optical + USB input) and power I would need and it only costs $250. I could just keep my E17 and use it with the Magni 2.
 
 
Your DAP lineup doesn't even have a parametric equaliser and would be of more interest to me if it had Rockbox support. At the moment I've got a $30 Rockboxed Sansa Clip+ that has more functionality than DAPs that cost thousands of dollars.
 
The Q5 functionality should include:
 

1. Digital volume control through a volume control chip.
   
   No channel imbalance with IEMs but still have plenty of power for fullsize headphones. I think 1W into 32ohms should be the target because I see the Magni 2 as the real competition.
    
2. Optical, coaxial, USB, auxillary input
3. 1/4" jack
4. Parametric equaliser. Very few products have this but it really would be a defining feature and it's something I would most definitely use. I'd actually buy the Q5 for this alone.
5. Output impedance under 1ohm

 
 
I'll continue using my E17.
 
Can you tell me if these measurements of the E17 were from a faulty unit. The E17 is on page 7 of 21. The THD%+Noise vs Output Vrms measurement is extremely high.

 
1, The feedback means any advice for Q5.
 
2, Sure, the K3 ( E09S ) is designed for X1/X3 II/ X5 II and X7. But the X3/X5 lack of dock conector .
 
3, Thanks for your input about the Q5.
 
4, I don't know what is wrong with the result of our E17, but the result is not supported to be so poor.  

 

[Rave77]

DAC/AMP Q5 is something I would be interested in for the desktop at the right price and performance. Love my E17.

 

[AUserName501]

 

Spoiler: Quote: JamesFiiO

 

 
1, The feedback means any advice for Q5.
 
2, Sure, the K3 ( E09S ) is designed for X1/X3 II/ X5 II and X7. But the X3/X5 lack of dock conector .
 
3, Thanks for your input about the Q5.
 
4, I don't know what is wrong with the result of our E17, but the result is not supported to be so poor.  

 

Thank you for the quick responses.
 
 

Spoiler: Quote: Rave77

 

  DAC/AMP Q5 is something I would be interested in for the desktop at the right price and performance. Love my E17.

 

 
Modi 2 Uber + Magni 2 = $250 and has optical and USB input with an amp that can power IEMs to the HE-6. If you just want a USB DAC then replace with the Hifimediy Sabre DAC and you have an amazing $150 combo. Schiit is giving Fiio some tough competition. If the Q5 can hit $300 with the features I've listed then I think we'll have a winner but the parametric equaliser is the bit that I really care about. If the Q5 doesn't have it then I'm not buying it.