[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: JamesFiio

Originally Posted by JamesFiiO /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
1, The feedback means any advice for Q5.
 
2, Sure, the K3 ( E09S ) is designed for X1/X3 II/ X5 II and X7. But the X3/X5 lack of dock conector .
 
3, Thanks for your input about the Q5.
 
4, I don't know what is wrong with the result of our E17, but the result is not supported to be so poor.  

 

 
I've spent some thinking about how Fiio appeals to me. I can narrow it down to these few things:
 

1. Detailed technical specifications
2. Price
3. Features
4. Great build quality

 
Here is what I think works about each Fiio product:
 

1. The E5/6 is cheap, small and has good specs for the price.
    
2. The E10k is a cheap DAC/Amp with a reasonable power output and good specs. The Schiit Fulla now offers some tough competition though.
    
3. At the time I bought the E17 the only other good DAC at a reasonable price with optical input was the AudioEngine D1.  The E17 was cheaper and offered a lot more functionality in a small and portable package. I can connect my E17 to my Android phone without problems as well. To this day there is nothing else like the E17. Nobody else has created a portable DAC/Amp with so many different inputs (USB/coaxial/optical/Aux). The E17k added 32/96 and DSD but neither of those features are important to me.
    
4. The E11k/E12 packs a lot of power in a slim and portable package at a good price. The E12A is made for IEMs.
    
5. The E18 works with many Android phones, has media control buttons and can be used as a power pack.
    
6. The X3/X5 can be used as a USB DAC as well as a portable media player.

 
Most Fiio products are either at a competitive price or offer more features than their competition. Fiio always comes out on top when you consider the amount of features you get for the price. My concern is that the Q5 will break from this mold. The question is what features could be offered that competitors don't.
 
The only feature that I can think of at the moment that would make the Q5 unique is a parametric equaliser. At the moment I currently use the parametric equaliser called EqualizerAPO with my Sennheiser HD800 in Windows to tweak the frequency response to my liking. The problem is that it doesn't work with WASAPI or ASIO and it is limited to Windows. By moving the parametric equaliser to the DAC/Amp, instead of the operating system, it means that I can use that parametric equaliser with everything that I've got connected to DAC/Amp. It has to be parametric though because it offers greater precision than your standard graphic EQ.
 
I've also thought about how much of a compelling feature a parametric equaliser would add to the Fiio X3/X5 DAP. At the moment my Rockboxed Sansa Clip+ has a parametric equaliser and more functionality than any other DAP out there. If a parametric equaliser was added to the X3/X5 then I'd buy one and if the parametric equaliser would also work when the X3/X5 is connected via USB to my computer as a DAC then I would certainly buy one.
 
Another thing that might be of interest is a good microphone input and bluetooth with Aptx support. The Creative E5 currently has this.
 
If you offered some good 7.1 virtual surround sound for gaming then that may appeal to many. Plenty of gamers here with audiophile headphones. SBX Pro Studio is the most well liked. Razer Surround is software and appears as a virtual audio device which works with any USB DAC but most people dislike Razer Surround and usually prefer CMSS-3D or SBX Pro Studio because it sounds better. However, Creative doesn't have a purely software product like this at the moment.
 
If Fiio offered 7.1 virtual surround sound software like Razer Surround and gave it away for free when you buy a DAC/Amp/DAP from Fiio then you'll get a lot of gamers buying Fiio products. A lot of people here would be buying the Q3 or Q5 rather than the Modi/Magni as a result of that. There is a huge amount of gamers buying audiophile headphones and most of them are looking for a USB DAC/Amp to go with their first pair of audiophile headphones (usually Sennheiser HD558). I would be recommending to get to the Fiio E10k rather than the Schiit Fulla if Fiio bundled 7.1 virtual surround sound software with the E10k. 7.1 VSS is also of use to people want who want to watch movies on their laptops and as many products (E17k, E18, X3, X5) are made for portable usage then this would be of great appeal to them too. It's a feature that Fiio can offer and others like Schiit can't.
 
Of course there are other features that can be added such as optical, coaxial, USB and auxillary input. A pre-amp circuit for powered speakers.  DSD support and 32bit/96Khz for USB decoding but plenty of competitors out there offer these features and the people interested in DSD often have far more expensive equipment anyway.

 

[DanBa]

 

Spoiler: Quote: JamesFiio

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

I've spent some thinking about how Fiio appeals to me. I can narrow it down to these few things:
 

1. Detailed technical specifications
2. Price
3. Features
4. Great build quality

 
Here is what I think works about each Fiio product:
 

1. The E5/6 is cheap, small and has good specs for the price.
    
2. The E10k is a cheap DAC/Amp with a reasonable power output and good specs. The Schiit Fulla now offers some tough competition though.
    
3. At the time I bought the E17 the only other good DAC at a reasonable price with optical input was the AudioEngine D1.  The E17 was cheaper and offered a lot more functionality in a small and portable package. I can connect my E17 to my Android phone without problems as well. To this day there is nothing else like the E17. Nobody else has created a portable DAC/Amp with so many different inputs (USB/coaxial/optical/Aux). The E17k added 32/96 and DSD but neither of those features are important to me.
    
4. The E11k/E12 packs a lot of power in a slim and portable package at a good price. The E12A is made for IEMs.
    
5. The E18 works with many Android phones, has media control buttons and can be used as a power pack.
    
6. The X3/X5 can be used as a USB DAC as well as a portable media player.

 
Most Fiio products are either at a competitive price or offer more features than their competition. Fiio always comes out on top when you consider the amount of features you get for the price. My concern is that the Q5 will break from this mold. The question is what features could be offered that competitors don't.
 
The only feature that I can think of at the moment that would make the Q5 unique is a parametric equaliser. At the moment I currently use the parametric equaliser called EqualizerAPO with my Sennheiser HD800 in Windows to tweak the frequency response to my liking. The problem is that it doesn't work with WASAPI or ASIO and it is limited to Windows. By moving the parametric equaliser to the DAC/Amp, instead of the operating system, it means that I can use that parametric equaliser with everything that I've got connected to DAC/Amp. It has to be parametric though because it offers greater precision than your standard EQ.
 
I've also thought about how much of a compelling feature a parametric equaliser would add to the Fiio X3/X5 DAP. At the moment my Rockboxed Sansa Clip+ has a parametric equaliser and more functionality than any other DAP out there. If a parametric equaliser was added to the X3/X5 then I'd buy one and if the parametric equaliser would also work when the X3/X5 is connected via USB to my computer as a DAC then I would certainly buy one.
 
Another thing that might be of interest is a good microphone input and bluetooth with Aptx support. The Creative E5 currently has this.

 
If you offered some good 7.1 virtual surround sound for gaming then that may appeal to many. Plenty of gamers here with audiophile headphones. SBX Pro Studio is the most well liked. Razer Surround is software and appears as a virtual audio device which works with any USB DAC but most people dislike Razer Surround and usually prefer CMSS-3D or SBX Pro Studio because it sounds better. However, Creative doesn't have a purely software product like this at the moment.
 
If Fiio offered 7.1 virtual surround sound software like Razer Surround and gave it away for free when you buy a DAC/Amp/DAP from Fiio then you'll get a lot of gamers buying Fiio products. A lot of people here would be buying the Q3 or Q5 rather than the Modi/Magni as a result of that. There is a huge amount of gamers buying audiophile headphones and most of them are looking for a USB DAC/Amp to go with their first pair of audiophile headphones (usually Sennheiser HD558). I would be recommending to get to the Fiio E10k rather than the Schiit Fulla if Fiio bundled 7.1 virtual surround sound software with the E10k. 7.1 VSS is also of use to be people want who want to watch movies on their laptops and as many products (E17k, E18, X3, X5) are made for portable usage then this would be of great appeal to them too. It's a feature that Fiio can offer and others like Schiit can't.
 
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Of course there are other features that can be added such as optical, coaxial, USB and auxillary input. A pre-amp circuit for powered speakers.  DSD support and 32bit/96Khz for USB audio but plenty of competitors out there offer these features and the people interested in DSD often have far more expensive equipment anyway.

 

 
I agree.
I think virtual surround sound experience with any stereo headphones is the next big sound feature for a truly immersive virtual reality.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5940#post_11158898
 
And consumer virtual reality is becoming the Next Big Thing.
 

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: DanBa

 

  I agree.
I think virtual surround sound experience with any stereo headphones is the next big sound feature for a truly immersive virtual reality.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5940#post_11158898
 
And consumer virtual reality is becoming the Next Big Thing.
 

 

 
Head tracking is needed for it to be more believable due to the small head movements we make to localise sound. In games you can move the camera which is like moving your head. However, for movies and music head tracking is needed. Oculus Rift will give a cheap form of head tracking and allows you to see the virtual speakers which will help. Exciting things for the future.
 
However, Fiio should just create the basic virtual surround sound like CMSS-3D, SBX Pro Studio, Dolby Headphone which is appealing to gamers. It's an attractive benefit that would get people buying the E10k, E17k and E09s instead of the Schiit Fulla or Magni/Modi.

 

[howdy]

I haven't used an iPod Classic in YEARS!

I filmed the unboxin and general operation of the unit about 2 weeks ago. Now that it's been announced, I'll go ahead and post it online.

I haven't given it a listen yet though. Only played around with the operation. 


What I can tell you is that the operation of it is quite 'weird. You pretty much use the left scroll wheel for menu operation. It clicks down to access the menu and then clicks again to access the sub menus (such as BASS, TREBLE etc). After you get in there, you scroll to change it, and then click once to 'go back' out.

You don't use any other buttons but the scroll wheel. The ONLY exception is with settings with more than on sub menu such as the firmware one. You use the 'exit' button on the front then.


:rolleyes:


The Alpen 2 features much lighter construction than the first. Gone are the thick feeling metal 'case' and the semi-weird volume buttons near the screen. They've taken ideas from the E11 and analog potentiometer units and put it on the new Alpen 2. This time though, it's not a real analog potentiometer but a digital one modeled to be 'like' an analog one. Not bad. The only problem is the 'click' part of it.

Due to how these units are going to be in ones pocket in weird orientations as one is out and about (portable unit), it is easy to press the 'menu access' button by clicking the volume controller (needs only a light tap). IT's going to take a week of getting used to how much pressure you put on it.



That's all I have for now

So have you gave it a listen yet possibly with the ipod? Awaiting your thoughts.

 

[AUserName501]

Fiio using Comic Sans MS. I do wonder if it was intentional or not.

 

[Robius]

  Fiio using Comic Sans MS. I do wonder if it was intentional or not.
 

 
I do wonder why would anyone wonder such a thing.
 
I apologize on behalf of FiiO for comic sans. 

 

[JamesFiiO]

  Fiio using Comic Sans MS. I do wonder if it was intentional or not.
 

 
got it and FWD to our designer. just google the reason and now I known what's the point. THX

 

[bowei006]

   
got it and FWD to our designer. just google the reason and now I known what's the point. THX

That's kinda funny. But yeah, Comic Sans is something that can't be taken seriously if a tech company uses it.
 
 
I personally like Segoe UI Light(Microsoft standard font, you probably can't use this maybe), Roboto(Google/Android standard font), or Myriad Semi Bold(Apple standard).

 

[stronge]

  I've also thought about how much of a compelling feature a parametric equaliser would add to the Fiio X3/X5 DAP. At the moment my Rockboxed Sansa Clip+ has a parametric equaliser and more functionality than any other DAP out there. If a parametric equaliser was added to the X3/X5 then I'd buy one and if the parametric equaliser would also work when the X3/X5 is connected via USB to my computer as a DAC then I would certainly buy one.

To speak of DAPs... I use a Rockboxed iRiver H-120 with a 64Gb SSD paired with E17 via optics to drive Sennheiser HD380 Pro. These are the features I currently cannot live without:
1. Parametric equaliser, yes (although matching a 5-band iRiver equaliser with a 20-band Foobar2000 one to get nearly identical sound was one hell of a task)
2. Fully functional folder navigation (if an artist/song name/genre/etc database has to be present it must be possible to switch between folder/database navigation)
3. Proper playlist-based shuffle mode. All the tracks are added to a single playlist which is shuffled if the respective play mode is on. The playlist then remains unchanged (if I accidentally skip a good track I can always go back to it) and is saved at power off. It can be reshuffled via menu.
4. "Que next" function capable of queuing a song, several songs or even a folder after the current track and adding these to the playlist (queued songs are saved at power off).
5. Complete ReplayGain support (track gain, album gain, preamp settings)
 
These are features of every Rockboxed DAP out there. Apart from Rockbox I never saw more than two of them implemented in a single device. Shuffle mode in other DAPs is always an issue as either everything gets reshuffled every startup or you always get a random track whether you go forward or backwards. (Some DAPs even don't have a concept of "repeat all" so you can get the same song several times in a row on shuffle). "Que next" is something I've seen only on iRivers but it's really one of the coolest things ever.
 
A DAP under 300$ with these features, physical buttons, USB DAC functionality (with 24/192 support) and no non-music functions (book reading, picture browsing and everything else a phone is capable of...) would win the hearts of all rockbox users.
 
And again, I have all these features in my H-120 and I use E17 as it is a cheap yet good-sounding solution and the only one to have both an optical input and USB DAC functionality in this price range. E17K won't have an optical input, H-120 doesn't have SPDIF. Upgrading to E17K will require me switching to some other DAP which is pointless as a good DAP won't need E17K to drive high impedance headphones. Not to mention the fact no current DAP has the required set of features.

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: stronge

Originally Posted by stronge /img/forum/go_quote.gif

To speak of DAPs... I use a Rockboxed iRiver H-120 with a 64Gb SSD paired with E17 via optics to drive Sennheiser HD380 Pro. These are the features I currently cannot live without:
1. Parametric equaliser, yes (although matching a 5-band iRiver equaliser with a 20-band Foobar2000 one to get nearly identical sound was one hell of a task)
2. Fully functional folder navigation (if an artist/song name/genre/etc database has to be present it must be possible to switch between folder/database navigation)
3. Proper playlist-based shuffle mode. All the tracks are added to a single playlist which is shuffled if the respective play mode is on. The playlist then remains unchanged (if I accidentally skip a good track I can always go back to it) and is saved at power off. It can be reshuffled via menu.
4. "Que next" function capable of queuing a song, several songs or even a folder after the current track and adding these to the playlist (queued songs are saved at power off).
5. Complete ReplayGain support (track gain, album gain, preamp settings)
 
These are features of every Rockboxed DAP out there. Apart from Rockbox I never saw more than two of them implemented in a single device. Shuffle mode in other DAPs is always an issue as either everything gets reshuffled every startup or you always get a random track whether you go forward or backwards. (Some DAPs even don't have a concept of "repeat all" so you can get the same song several times in a row on shuffle). "Que next" is something I've seen only on iRivers but it's really one of the coolest things ever.
 
A DAP under 300$ with these features, physical buttons, USB DAC functionality (with 24/192 support) and no non-music functions (book reading, picture browsing and everything else a phone is capable of...) would win the hearts of all rockbox users.
 
And again, I have all these features in my H-120 and I use E17 as it is a cheap yet good-sounding solution and the only one to have both an optical input and USB DAC functionality in this price range. E17K won't have an optical input, H-120 doesn't have SPDIF. Upgrading to E17K will require me switching to some other DAP which is pointless as a good DAP won't need E17K to drive high impedance headphones. Not to mention the fact no current DAP has the required set of features.

 

 
The problem with every expensive DAP out there is that Rockbox does it so much better and is free. Fiio should work to get Rockbox on the Fiio DAPs.

 

[sandrojpsantos]

Just want to give my two cents on the subject of the optical/toslink in.
 
Like it has been said, a big big part of the audiophile market is gamers. Like myself. And most of them use consoles as well. So optical e really importante. So I have been olding on buy a e17 myself for a while because I new the revision should not take long. and here it is without optical inputs. 
 
So I saw that the e09s is coming, why not put the optical in there? it would be perfect and for the right price I would buy the both right away. Me and a lot of people. I think you are designing it still, so it would be possible no?
 
Because you see, I would really like that combo for the desk and be able to use the e17k as portable device for my 3ds and tablet would be really great.
 
I think this would be a win win situation here.
 
P.S: you talked about the Q5 but without a date specs and a price I just can't wait like that. and like most, I will end up going for the competition. If you could confirm something like the e09s with optical in I would buy a e17k right away 

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: sandrojpsantos

Originally Posted by sandrojpsantos /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Just want to give my two cents on the subject of the optical/toslink in.
 
Like it has been said, a big big part of the audiophile market is gamers. Like myself. And most of them use consoles as well. So optical e really importante. So I have been olding on buy a e17 myself for a while because I new the revision should not take long. and here it is without optical inputs. 
 
So I saw that the e09s is coming, why not put the optical in there? it would be perfect and for the right price I would buy the both right away. Me and a lot of people. I think you are designing it still, so it would be possible no?
 
Because you see, I would really like that combo for the desk and be able to use the e17k as portable device for my 3ds and tablet would be really great.
 
I think this would be a win win situation here.
 
P.S: you talked about the Q5 but without a date specs and a price I just can't wait like that. and like most, I will end up going for the competition. If you could confirm something like the e09s with optical in I would buy a e17k right away 

 
The E09s is an amplifier and not a DAC. It's like asking to put optical input on the Schiit Magni. The E17k docks to the E09s and the E17k then acts as a DAC while the E09s acts as the amplifier.
 
Just buy a used E17.

 

[stronge]

  The problem with every expensive DAP out there is that Rockbox does it so much better and is free. Fiio should work to get Rockbox on the Fiio DAPs.

The only major issue with Rockbox is it only supports 16/44. 24/96 gets downsampled and 24/192 is mostly unsupported...

 

[sandrojpsantos]

Sure, but didn't the e09k worked as a dac with the e17? Ok, I think I understand now, I thought it differently. Too bad . Well, I might get a modi and a portable amplifier like the e12a, or even an astro mixamp to go with it. Or if I can find a e17 still new on a store perhaps I go with that.
 
Thank you for the answer/explanation

 

[bowei006]

There has been hundreds of comments and replies from FiiO on Rockbox.

Do we need to beat the dead horse every time a unit comes out?

Its not currently possible due to how FiiO does lisencing with their fw and SoC.