[HiFiHawaii808]

I dont own it but given the reviews I have read and the raves something is wrong in your setup somewhere

I agree. I think the problem may be with the Bifrost 2. First, I would get rid of USB and replace it with a streamer. The Bifrost 2 has a balanced output of 4V. May need something more than that or a preamp.

 

[LarsMan]

huh?...susvara bass is better than utopia...not even close

That has not been my experience....

 

[LarsMan]

I dont own it but given the reviews I have read and the raves something is wrong in your setup somewher

I dont own it but given the reviews I have read and the raves something is wrong in your setup somewhere

I do own it, and if it sounds like it should cost just a few hundred bucks, I agree with jlbrach - there is something very wrong in that setup.

 

[chargedcapacitor]

That has not been my experience....

Nor mine, or most owners. But I think it's time to get the conversation back on amplifiers!

 

[jlbrach]

amp go along with HP's lol

 

[prismstorm]

I forgot the Empyrean, that was a very nice, basy and impactful headphone. If Elite has the same character it is indeed another option and if you like the sound signature then sounds like a plan. Silver won't give you a bass lift, but it will improve the micro and macro dynamics making the whole spectrum sharper. I like my headphones sharp and my dac + amp detailed and smooth, but there's a hundred ways to skin the cat.

I wanted to 'fix' the bass so I changed to the Black Dragon first, there was a slight hint of warmth and didn't really give it a whole lot of bass. Thus I tried the Silver Dragon next, it made everything sound more open and transparent, I thought it was a bit better than the Black Dragon, so I'm sticking with Silver. Of course it is still bass light compared to Empyrean or Elite or LCD-4Z. I might get the Elite down the line and give up on the Susvara chain and just accept it as it is.

That statement is setting people up to be disappointed, if they are looking to the susvara as a headphone that can accurately reproduce percussion sounds as well as the LCD or focal line of headphones. Anyone upgrading from an LCD-x to a susvara would be quite disappointed in the bass punch.

On top of that, high fidelity $5000+ amps are not needed to faithfully reproduce and handle bass / kicks on the susvara. Any decent speaker amp will show the susvaras low end capability.

Keep in mind, this whole argument revolves around the statement not that the susvara has bad sub bass (it has great sub bass), but that it does not have the leading edge "punch" that accurately renders what a kick drum or similar sounds and feels like.

Susvara is reproducing bass accurately, many low frequencies sound very timbre correct. It's just that the bass is so flat, the impact is so tamed and the quantity is so scarce that rock / pop / electronic all sound soft, overly polite, emotionless and un-engaging.

Using Hypsos and Oor the output should be 24V, check that figure first.

EDIT: I see in your cross posting to another thread that you gave more detail in a subsequent post and clarified that you are on the correct setting.

Yes I did set it at 24V for the Oor, the Hypsos has a factory configuration for Ferrum OOR so there's no mistaking it. I seem to have done everything correctly and have almost narrowed down the culprit to be the Susvara itself, and not a deficiency in the chain ...

 

[prismstorm]

Some other questions for Ferrum owners here:

1) Do you guys ever adjust the voltage of a device, such as using 30V for the OOR instead of 24V? I have tried increasing the voltage but of course everything sounded exactly the same. It didn't make the Susvara sound any less soft. I think even if properly driven Susvara simply is a soft, gentle headphone not made for impact or having much bass.

2) Do you guys leave the '4 Terminal Sensing' and 'Spread Spectrum Mode' on? I tried turning them off but either way couldn't hear a difference.

 

[dematted]

Wow that's unfortunate. It is a dark sounding amp comparatively, but if it sounded worse than Micro iDSD to you then something wasn't right with the setup I would think.

Well, it was Ferrum itself who designed the setup, so that's sort of on them. Perhaps they did set it up incorrectly, or perhaps the dac was holding it back (though it was a Ferrum Dac, I believe). Either way, it sounded very unimpressive to me compared to the other stuff I've heard at its price-point (Pendant OG, ECP 3F, various Elekit amps). It did do some things like clarity and timbre right, but the dynamics were extremely unimpressive, as was the general ability to actually resolve musical information.

 

[dematted]

I agree. I think the problem may be with the Bifrost 2. First, I would get rid of USB and replace it with a streamer. The Bifrost 2 has a balanced output of 4V. May need something more than that or a preamp.

I wasn't using it with a Bifrost 2. I was using it with Ferrum's own dac, as I heard it at Canjam.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam. I listened to it with a couple different things: my Mini (Custom headphone made by a start-up), a Utopia, and a few other ETA's (The startup in question). Overall, it sounded very reminiscent of two much cheaper amps: the JDS Atom, and Magni Heresy. In short, it sounded like a cheap op-amp implementation. Now, I'm not sure if that's how the amp is actually designed, but the sound overall was, despite being pretty clear and for the most part timbrally correct, very dull and unengaging. Transients lacked edge and slam, microdynamics were almost completely absent, and the music sounded, though not "off", as if it really lacked (to use a term Ferrum likes) "Soul". This is probably attributable to the fact that the amp just didn't seem to dig very deep, and smeared over the finer gradations of music (what many refer to as "texture" or "plankton"). I think it tries to get away from some of the characteristic problems with SS by having what is definitely a warm tonal bent, but this just ends up masking over some detail in the treble, I think. It also sounds pretty "Slow": not in a "rounded transients" sort of way, but more in the sense that individual notes were not particularly visceral or immediate sounding.

Overall, I'd expect this amp to cost somewhere from 300-500, not $3000 with the Hypsos power supply. The iFi amps, by contrast, (even the cheaper ones, like the Diablo and Gryphon) had much more character and engagement. Maybe it does better with planars, which I did not try it with. Or maybe this unit was a dud, or maybe the dac it was hooked up to just wasn't great. Or maybe my ears just don't jive with it for whatever reason. Anyways, a big disappointment for me, as an SS on the level of, say, an ECP DSHA-3F at an accessible price which can be easily purchased would be a great thing. But to my ears, it didn't come anywhere close to the 3F. No solid state amp I've heard does.

Yeah, I was there. They had a horrible set up that required good wifi which they didn't get. So, their set up was terrible. If you hooked up your own source with your own music, then it came out stunningly good. I think the Vana guys shot themselves in the foot at CanJam NYC by having a horrible demo set up. We hooked it up with an SP1000 directly to the back of the Ferrum Orr with dual 3 pin XLR and it drove my Susvara sublimely which I plugged into the front of the Orr with 4 pin XLR. You need to go fully balanced input and output to get the best performance.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I wasn't using it with a Bifrost 2. I was using it with Ferrum's own dac, as I heard it at Canjam.

Ferrum doesn't have its own standalone DAC yet. It's not scheduled for release until May. Not sure what you were listening to. They had a DAC/Amp combo that was on the left side of the table that I didn't hear. I think it is called the ERCO. It is a combination DAC/Amp that Ferrum just released. That was not the Ferrum Orr + Hypsos that we are talking about on this thread. The 2nd and 3rd set up which was connected to the same source in the middle with the iPad was the Ferrum Orr+ Hypsos. The DAC was under the table and they wouldn't tell us what it was.

 

[chargedcapacitor]

Some other questions for Ferrum owners here:

1) Do you guys ever adjust the voltage of a device, such as using 30V for the OOR instead of 24V? I have tried increasing the voltage but of course everything sounded exactly the same. It didn't make the Susvara sound any less soft. I think even if properly driven Susvara simply is a soft, gentle headphone not made for impact or having much bass.

Yes, unfortunately you probably read on this forum or others that having the right cables / DAC / amp will make the susvara bass hit hard. It won't, under any circumstance. That's just not what it's designed for. You can get certain aspects of the bass elevated by installing different pads, or doing the port mod. But it only works to varying degrees. Save your money, don't spend $$$$$ to get the susvara to be the headphone it can't be. Get an LCD, Utopia, or 1266. Try before you buy when you can!

 

[801evan]

Not sure if it had to do with the dac which it was hooked up to, (and obviously take all this with a grain of salt because meet conditions etc.) but I was genuinely unimpressed by the OOR + Hypsos combo at Canjam.

You're not wrong. While the rest of the chain is a big factor, the Hypsos isn't all that. My ipower x and ifi elite performs better than the Hypsos. The Hypsos buys convenience. Consistently ppl who love the hypsos + orr are speaker amp lovers and consistently, speaker amps won't give that sub bass and they blame it's the Susvara.

 

[801evan]

I have demoed the Ferrum Stack and compared it with my Gustard X26 Pro and Burson GT with upgraded op amps and I would say that I would prefer my setup over the Ferrum Stack in terms of sheer clarity and dynamics (they're sort of close but the GT has a slight edge over it) but I had to spend way more money than the Ferrum Stack itself with the upgrades and it just shows you the level of value for performance you get with the Ferrum Stack, amazing.

Were you able to try the hypsos running the GT and compare to the ORR?

 

[krude]

So many misconceptions here, I would suggest people who didn't have the ability to test Ferrum gear at home to take their experiences with a grain of salt. Things that are being said here are: a) confusing and b) not true for majority of Ferrum owners. Not to say one should not talk about bad experiences, but there are so many variables to one off experiences you should really investigate further before making any claims.

As for Susvara, again so many conflicting opinions. There are 2 things with Susvaras general sound, dynamics and bass.

1. Susvara has a neutral, flat bass. Not elevated at all. If you don't know what Harman target is and you don't know how to read frequency response graphs maybe you should not complain about a 6k headphone. Not being funny but educate yourself first please. There are plenty of guides online. Andrew Resolve on YT explains it really well for example.

2. Susvara has a very inefficient driver and comes with a cable made from recycled gummy bears. This cable does not work with this set and it's the same cable you get with cans for 500 quid. To get dynamics from Susvara your chain has to be strong. Your signal is only as good as your weakest link. Susvara is a totl set through and through and it will punish your chain like nothing else. Every single bit matters. It's a set that forces you to learn and explore. People who post blanket statements here, I do understand you, but please consider that maybe you didn't have the setup to drive it, or the knowledge to set it up as you want it.

3. Add the two above together = to get elevated bass out of Susvara you either need a chain with naturally elevated bass (like a speaker amp that will have elevated bass at 60 ohms) or EQ, and you need to understand how it works first. To get good dynamics you need a good chain which includes good cable. Will it hit as hard as TC or Utopia? No, but nothing else will either. Will it hit as hard as most other planars? Absolutely.

Also before anyone says they are disappointed with something, at least also say what you define as good before making statements. Otherwise this is starting to turn into a meaningless stream of disinformation.

Also when buying 9k worth of gear you should really have some knowledge already or be prepared to learn. It's like buying a sports car and not knowing what front wheel drive or rear wheel drive is.