[MIKELAP]

  Hi Renderman,
 
You made my day! Finally I found somebody who likes the Sylvania 6080 as power tubes. I am using them in my modded Little Dot MKIII, and found them better than the Chatham 6080 and 6AS7 (as well as a host of others).
 
The ones I like are 6080WB, I also have  Sylvania Gold Brand 6080 tubes, but found the WB better. Also have a pair of Philips 6080WC - perhaps these are the same as the Sylvania 6080WC.
 
(Oskari: I had to look up the spelling. Again.)

I saw these but they are WA are those the ones you have  Thanks.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

 

[mordy]

Hi All,
 
The Sylvania 6080 tubes I like are 6080WB from the early and mid 1960's. The Philips 6080WC ECG tubes are from the early 80's(!) - I guess an end of an era.
 
The Sylvania Gold Brand 6080 tubes have no suffix, and I can't figure out the date codes: One tube is marked ECT CM and the other ECS AF. These date codes remind me of a Sylvania 12AU7 tube that I have that has the date code XYZ......
 
They all look very similar except that my early 60's tubes have a gray plastic base instead of black. Perhaps looking for a gray plastic base will help you locate the ones I like the best if you want to try them.
 
Now, about analyzing how they sound I have come to a stage where I am not bothered by anything;  I just enjoy the music. These tubes (with the C3g drivers) just sound right with very detailed and strong bass. Don't know why, perhaps because the C3g driver tubes are powerful enough to drive the LD MKIII by themselves , but I can switch off the heaters from the 6080 tubes (shutting down the external PS), and the amp still makes enough signal to work as a preamp with a ss amp, although not enough signal to drive the headphones. I just have to turn up the volume on the ss amp.
 
This way I can directly compare the sound with the 6080 tubes working and without. Early on there was an opinion on this forum that power tubes contribute some 15% to the overall sound. This is not true IMHO. Using these 2.5A power tubes together with the driver tubes changes the entire sound picture. The best analogy I can come up with is a tepid soda pop that's flat without carbonation, and a cold one with all the fizz in it. Or, grape juice vs a good wine - you get the idea. It's totally different, and everything is affected.
 
And yes, I am contemplating an Elise. The question I have is if it is going to be a quantum step above my current set-up. On the other hand, there is nothing so good that it couldn't be better.....
 
Then there is the question if I should order an Elise made for C3g drivers instead of the 6SN7. This would exclude driver tube rolling but maybe the sound would be superior.
 
Cheers,

 

[Renderman]

So the 6080s could be slotted in directly now?

Lorspeaker, yes that's right! On my Elise the sockets are flush with the top cover so tubes with a wider base like the 6080 can be used directly.

 

[Renderman]

 
I saw these but they are WA are those the ones you have  Thanks.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Hi Mikelap, those look similar to the ones I have but mine have a Light grey/beige base. The markings as seen on the tube are:
 
JAN 6080WC
SYLVANIA
U.S.A. 82219
 
The number (Date code?) from top to bottom reads 7539. And the letters ECF to the right of that.
 

 
I hope this helps. would you like to try those tubes?

 

[MIKELAP]

 

 
I saw these but they are WA are those the ones you have  Thanks.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Hi Mikelap, those look similar to the ones I have but mine have a Light grey/beige base. The markings as seen on the tube are:
 
JAN 6080WC
SYLVANIA
U.S.A. 82219
 
The number (Date code?) from top to bottom reads 7539. And the letters ECF to the right of that.
 

 
I hope this helps. would you like to try those tubes?

oops! 

 

[mordy]

Getting closer, but these tubes are from September 1975 and 6080WC. The ones I prefer are from the 60's and 6080 WB. Could be that the plastic color is not important, more important the year made.

 

[Renderman]

  Getting closer, but these tubes are from September 1975 and 6080WC. The ones I prefer are from the 60's and 6080 WB. Could be that the plastic color is not important, more important the year made.

Hi Mordy, you are right, built in 1975 and it seems the color of the plastic base is not a tell tale sign. I would like to try tubes similar to yours.
 
As for drivers and C3g version of Elise, Hypnos1 is kind enough to make me a set of C3g adapters for the Elise. Once those are in my clutches I will report back here to let you know if it's worth to get a C3g version of the Elise in my opinion. I hope that will help you make your decision.
 
Thanks for all the info so far, will keep an eye out for 60's 6080WBs!

 

[hypnos1]

  Hi All,
 
The Sylvania 6080 tubes I like are 6080WB from the early and mid 1960's. The Philips 6080WC ECG tubes are from the early 80's(!) - I guess an end of an era.
 
The Sylvania Gold Brand 6080 tubes have no suffix, and I can't figure out the date codes: One tube is marked ECT CM and the other ECS AF. These date codes remind me of a Sylvania 12AU7 tube that I have that has the date code XYZ......
 
They all look very similar except that my early 60's tubes have a gray plastic base instead of black. Perhaps looking for a gray plastic base will help you locate the ones I like the best if you want to try them.
 
Now, about analyzing how they sound I have come to a stage where I am not bothered by anything;  I just enjoy the music. These tubes (with the C3g drivers) just sound right with very detailed and strong bass. Don't know why, perhaps because the C3g driver tubes are powerful enough to drive the LD MKIII by themselves , but I can switch off the heaters from the 6080 tubes (shutting down the external PS), and the amp still makes enough signal to work as a preamp with a ss amp, although not enough signal to drive the headphones. I just have to turn up the volume on the ss amp.
 
This way I can directly compare the sound with the 6080 tubes working and without. Early on there was an opinion on this forum that power tubes contribute some 15% to the overall sound. This is not true IMHO. Using these 2.5A power tubes together with the driver tubes changes the entire sound picture. The best analogy I can come up with is a tepid soda pop that's flat without carbonation, and a cold one with all the fizz in it. Or, grape juice vs a good wine - you get the idea. It's totally different, and everything is affected.
 
And yes, I am contemplating an Elise. The question I have is if it is going to be a quantum step above my current set-up. On the other hand, there is nothing so good that it couldn't be better.....
 
Then there is the question if I should order an Elise made for C3g drivers instead of the 6SN7. This would exclude driver tube rolling but maybe the sound would be superior.
 
Cheers,

 
Hi mordy.
 
I can fully understand your plight re. whether to take the plunge or not...I had to think long and hard before putting the suggestion to the Feliks guys - as you know I had pushed my LDMKIV SE pretty well to the limit with the C3gS/GEC CV2523 combo, and I do believe the SE is possibly a notch up from the MKIII!
 
There are a good many factors to consider here - I shall try to put some of them into perspective...
 
1. To get a quantum leap up you would need to spend a GREAT deal more than $500, I suspect. However, the Elise is definitely in another league IMHO.
2. Although our LDs are able to take the punishment of using these more 'exotic' tubes, I truly believe it is only a matter of time before something gives out - especially the MKIII that gets much hotter than the MKIV SE (and although you use a cooling fan, surely the components are still operating at a much higher temp. than spec...). And so looking to the long-term future, I wanted rather more security/safety. Plus even though our external PSUs and regulators do the trick, a proper dedicated PS is probably the better option...
3. The aesthetic factor, which of course is a very personal thing - even though I had managed to hide the 'extras' fairly well, I still wanted something neater.
4. Other elements of the set-up will also, naturally, come into play. Source upgrades I feel benefit the Elise more than the LDs, but more so headphone upgrade. Although, for example, the HD650s up their game accordingly, the improvement is much more dramatic with the likes of the Beyer T1s or HD800s. So this does of course bring in the extra cost factor - but again looking to the long-term can help in such decisions (I myself never thought I would spend more on HPs than the amp, but boy have I learned a lesson...I wish I'd done it sooner!).
5. How much further experimentlng with different tubes in the LD is anticipated...BOTH could be an option also!  

...
 
I'm sure there are other factors to consider, but I think this post is long enough already!
 
I wish you all the best in your deliberations mordy - and probably a few more peoples' impressions would be very helpful also...
 
ps. I have a feeling it could be a long while before Lukasz would even reconsider the solely C3g configuration...it's still relatively early days in original remit production after all!
 
CHEERS  

CJ
 
Edit. pps...I also REALLY like how the Elise's case AND trafo housing get just barely warm!! 

 

[gibosi]

  As for drivers and C3g version of Elise, Hypnos1 is kind enough to make me a set of C3g adapters for the Elise. Once those are in my clutches I will report back here to let you know if it's worth to get a C3g version of the Elise in my opinion. I hope that will help you make your decision.
 

 
It is important to remember that H1's adapters are adapting a single triode-strapped C3g to a double triode 6SN7 socket and circuitry. Circuitry designed to use one 6SN7 per channel is very different than that for a single triode-strapped C3g. While H1 was able to take advantage of a few suggestions suggested by Glenn, using C3gs with his adapters in a 6SN7 Elise will not be the same as using C3gs in a properly designed "C3g Elise" should this option become available. Now, I am not going to go so far as to assert that the C3g Elise will sound better. But there is no doubt in my mind that it will sound different.

 

[Shaffer]

Mordy, I have a LDIII with 6HM5s and 6SN7s. The Elise is in a totally different league. In comparison, the LDIII sounds hazy, opaque, slow, diffuse, and lacking focus. The LDIII's mid-bass is plump, although powerful, but there's no real extension. In terms of clarity, the difference is even greater.

 

[mordy]

Hi Shaffer,
 
I did try the tube combination that you mentioned you are using in the LD MKIII, but using the MKIII with C3g drivers and 2.5A power tubes brings it up several levels. Only Hypnos has been able to compare this set up to the Elise, and he feels that the Elise is much better.
 
Hypnos substituted the 6SN7 driver tubes in the Elise for C3g tubes, and felt that the performance got even better. So the question is if an Elise optimized for C3g tubes would sound even better - maybe Lukasz can weigh in on this.

 

[2359glenn]

At some point I might start making C3g adapters for the Elise not enough out there yet to make it worth my while.
I have already started making them for the WA-5 with good results.

 

[mordy]

Sounds very interesting!
 
In your opinion, would an amp like the Elise, specially biased for C3g tubes,sound significantly better than using C3g tubes with adapters with the original 6SN7 bias? Does it really make a difference?

 

[hypnos1]

   
It is important to remember that H1's adapters are adapting a single triode-strapped C3g to a double triode 6SN7 socket and circuitry. Circuitry designed to use one 6SN7 per channel is very different than that for a single triode-strapped C3g. While H1 was able to take advantage of a few suggestions suggested by Glenn, using C3gs with his adapters in a 6SN7 Elise will not be the same as using C3gs in a properly designed "C3g Elise" should this option become available. Now, I am not going to go so far as to assert that the C3g Elise will sound better. But there is no doubt in my mind that it will sound different.

 
 

  Sounds very interesting!
 
In your opinion, would an amp like the Elise, specially biased for C3g tubes,sound significantly better than using C3g tubes with adapters with the original 6SN7 bias? Does it really make a difference?

 
Hi guys.
 
All I can say, in all honesty, is that if a specifically C3g-configured Elise were to sound better than my (pure silver wire) adapted C3gSs, then it most certainly WOULD be Shaffer's $2K machine, lol!!  

...
 
(Happy days are here still...) 

 

[gibosi]

Or you can have Glenn custom build a C3g OTL for considerably less than $2k.