Fastest Dynamic Drivers that can match Electrostatic Drivers?

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think some people are underestimating just how fast and detailed a good dynamic headphone can be. The fastest and most detailed headphone I've heard to date is the Qualia 010. Electrostatics are in second place, with the Omega II having a slight edge over the HE90 in pure speed, but losing out in overall presentation. I'd put the R10 at #4 in terms of sheer speed, but its presentation moves it past the Qualia in terms of sheer listenability to me (there's a lot more to a headphone than speed). In terms of listening preference, I'd have to rank them R10>= HE90 > Omega II > Qualia 010, which is pretty much the opposite of my speed and detail rankings. I'd also note that none of these headphones lacks detail, or would be considered "slow". But, to date, fastest and most detailed headphone that I've heard has been dynamic. In theory that should not be...but theories are not always correct.

I never knew the R10 were considered to be really fast. The Q10 is really a unique beast, and has the characterstics I lust after.. Many pro planar people claim planar, especially electro are automatically faster due to the technology and design. Which, under this assumption, the Stax portable, 0001 I think, should be faster then any dynamic headphones. They will also claim the detail you are hearing isn't really extra detail but (blank, so and so)

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catharsis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay Mr. microscopic lightspeed - you know that I just have to ask. Where would you place the DT880 in your ranking for speed relative to the others? Be honest - don't need to make me happy.

Sorry. Medicore transient response. To me, complex musical passages can show how fast a headphone can be. audibility in dialouge (if thats the right word for it) comes to mind among other things.

 

[AmanGeorge]

Agree with kool bubba ice - DT880 doesn't have the transient response to keep up with super complex passages the way other headphones I've seen mentioned here (K701, SA5000, even D5000) do

 

[VoLTaG3]

What about top universal earphones like the Shure SE530's? How's the speed of those?

 

[member1982]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry. Medicore transient response. To me, complex musical passages can show how fast a headphone can be. audibility in dialouge (if thats the right word for it) comes to mind among other things.

Any good songs to test?

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmanGeorge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agree with kool bubba ice - DT880 doesn't have the transient response to keep up with super complex passages the way other headphones I've seen mentioned here (K701, SA5000, even D5000) do

Hmmm...the folks over at headroom disagree with you (at least in respect to the AKG 701)

"The beyerdynamic DT880 is yet another superb headphone. It is also very refined, open-toned, and quick-sounding with a sweet musical detail transparency that is second to none. The recently revised DT880 slightly beefs up the lean bottom-end of earlier models. The deep velour earpads on the DT880 make it one of the most comfortable headphones around, nice for those extra-long audiophile listening sessions. The DT880 is also perhaps the most analytical or fastest sounding of the aforementioned reference 'phones."

I think I'm just going to let my ears decide. I've been researching "speed" for weeks, and I don't think we can all agree on what exactly we're talking about.

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry. Medicore transient response. To me, complex musical passages can show how fast a headphone can be. audibility in dialouge (if thats the right word for it) comes to mind among other things.

Let me put it this way. When speaking strictly of dynamic headphones, how many cans would be between DT880 and SA5000.

In case I haven't made it obvious, I want something faster than DT880 without going electrostat and without buying the SA5000.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catharsis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm...the folks over at headroom disagree with you (at least in respect to the AKG 701) "The beyerdynamic DT880 is yet another superb headphone. It is also very refined, open-toned, and quick-sounding with a sweet musical detail transparency that is second to none. The recently revised DT880 slightly beefs up the lean bottom-end of earlier models. The deep velour earpads on the DT880 make it one of the most comfortable headphones around, nice for those extra-long audiophile listening sessions. The DT880 is also perhaps the most analytical or fastest sounding of the aforementioned reference 'phones." I think I'm just going to let my ears decide. I've been researching "speed" for weeks, and I don't think we can all agree on what exactly we're talking about.

Many other folks would disagree. IMHO, all DT880's starring from the original 80's models have one thing going for them, excellent transient response and correct tonal balance. They might not do some other things as good as other hi-end headphones but they are as fast, or faster, as any other mid-priced dynamic headphones such as A/250, SA5000, D5000, HD650, RS1 and etc. that I heard.

On the other hand almost all properly damped orthos, electrostats and electrets have an edge over conversational dynamic headphones, when it comes to transient response. I speak from personal experience, take a look in my equipment list see what headphones I had. I also heard a few hi-end dynamic headphones at NYC meet and specifically listened for transient response and soundstage, I did not hear any that would be as good as even a mid-line electrostat (SR-202, SR-303) in this regard.

P.S. for me fast = good transient response

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many other folks would disagree. IMHO, all DT880's starring from the original 80's models have one thing going for them, excellent transient response and correct tonal balance. They might not do some other things as good as other hi-end headphones but they as fast, or faster, as any other mid-priced dynamic headphones such as A/250, SA5000, D5000, HD650, RS1 and etc. that I heard. On the other hand almost all properly damped orthos, electrostats and electrets have an edge over conversational dynamic headphones, when it comes to transient response. I speak from personal experience, take a look in my equipment list see what headphones I had. I also heard a few hi-end dynamic headphones at NYC meet and specifically listened for transient response and soundstage, I did not hear any that would be as good as even a mid-line electrostat (SR-202, SR-303) in this regard.

WOW!

I'll take that opnion with a heavy weight as clearly you have an understanding of what fast means (look at all of your orthos and stats!)

For me, the DT880s sound fast, but I don't have a very experienced basis for comparison. They work well for even complicated electronic music, but for really aggressive music such as rock, they seem too polite. The Goldrings / Grados fit better there.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catharsis /img/forum/go_quote.gif WOW! I'll take that opnion with a heavy weight as clearly you have an understanding of what fast means (look at all of your orthos and stats!) For me, the DT880s sound fast, but I don't have a very experienced basis for comparison. They work well for even complicated electronic music, but for really aggressive music such as rock, they seem too polite. The Goldrings / Grados fit better there.

DT880 don't have a lot of bass impact but the bass is extended IMO. I find they really need a good amp behind to sound fast and transparent. I used them with a nice triode tube amp and with mini3 in both cases as soon as music got complex this combination of amp & DT880 falls apart. If you use a good amp with plenty of control they will be fast and extend on top and bottom. I feel that a good class A solid state amp (mosfet or jefet amps works best IMHO), good hybrid amps with ss output or tube amp with feedback works best if you want DT880 to show how fast and detailed they can be.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many other folks would disagree. IMHO, all DT880's starring from the original 80's models have one thing going for them, excellent transient response and correct tonal balance. They might not do some other things as good as other hi-end headphones but they as fast, or faster, as any other mid-priced dynamic headphones such as A/250, SA5000, D5000, HD650, RS1 and etc. that I heard. On the other hand almost all properly damped orthos, electrostats and electrets have an edge over conversational dynamic headphones, when it comes to transient response. I speak from personal experience, take a look in my equipment list see what headphones I had. I also heard a few hi-end dynamic headphones at NYC meet and specifically listened for transient response and soundstage, I did not hear any that would be as good as even a mid-line electrostat (SR-202, SR-303) in this regard.

It seems like faster depends on the camp you belong to. Isn't there a way to measure transient response/speed?cause describing speed based on our hearing will always be subjective.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems like faster depends on the camp you belong to. Isn't there a way to measure transient response/speed?cause describing speed based on our hearing will always be subjective.

If fast = transient response, than it can be measured. Use google to find a lot of articles of how it's done. If by fast you substitute your subjective perspective of what fast is.....

This site has a lot of interesting information about the nature of sound and various measurements.

 

[VoLTaG3]

How do balanced armature drivers fair against electrostatics in transient response? Anyone?

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif If fast = transient response, than it can be measured. Use google to find a lot of articles of how it's done. If by fast you substitute your subjective perspective of what fast is..... This site has a lot of interesting information about the nature of sound and various measurements.

If TR/speed can be meaured, why is there any argument about it?

 

[hew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif If TR/speed can be meaured, why is there any argument about it?

We all hear and interpret transient speed differently. Also, many of us don't have a good reference to judge by since only a few of us have heard a decent stat system or better yet, live unamplified music.