ETHER 2: Impressions and Discussion
Nov 22, 2018 at 1:36 PM Post #856 of 3,210
Europe is really lagging behind in stock it seems. One MrSpeakers retailer in Germany is only about to start selling the EF(O) 1.1 in a few weeks. No info on E2 yet. But what's even more troublesome is they'll be charging 2.200 € for the EF(O) 1.1! That's 800 € more than when buying directly from MrSpeakers. I'm threading the day they announce E2 prices. Not fun.

/whine
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 1:57 PM Post #857 of 3,210
After 30 hours of playing (still a bit short of 50+ hours target), there seems a better balance between bass and treble. A quick A/B between efc and e2 reveals that e2 is definitely less bright than efc, but oh well, e2 sounds more natural, liquid and smooth. Hope treble on e2 strikes back a little bit more.
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 2:00 PM Post #858 of 3,210
Europe is really lagging behind in stock it seems. One MrSpeakers retailer in Germany is only about to start selling the EF(O) 1.1 in a few weeks. No info on E2 yet. But what's even more troublesome is they'll be charging 2.200 € for the EF(O) 1.1! That's 800 € more than when buying directly from MrSpeakers. I'm threading the day they announce E2 prices. Not fun.

/whine

I admire Mr Speakers as a company.
The European market seems to be complete oversight though.
Audeze does IMHO a way better job with several Distributors and "good" Retailers.

Prices for the Ether Flow 1.1 are just ridiculous high here (2.000 € -> ~ 2280 USD!).

That, by the way is the reason I bought the Hifiman Arya for 1.600 € instead of the Ether 2.
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 2:01 PM Post #859 of 3,210
After 30 hours of playing (still a bit short of 50+ hours target), there seems a better balance between bass and treble. A quick A/B between efc and e2 reveals that e2 is definitely less bright than efc, but oh well, e2 sounds more natural, liquid and smooth. Hope treble on e2 strikes back a little bit more.

Is it too dark in the treble like Audeze?
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 2:17 PM Post #860 of 3,210
Is it too dark in the treble like Audeze?

I have to rely on my memory, but as indicated by @ninjapirate9901 earlier, it doesn't seem that female vocals are as dark as with some audeze phones. There is a decent level of transparency on female vocals so far.
I bet e2 is brighter than LCDs but e2 has its own warm take. Treble 'sparkle' around 6-8k is not as much strong as in some brighter headphones. I guess that is why @LCMusicLover hears more edge on female vocals with Utopia.
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 3:26 PM Post #861 of 3,210
Sadly but some american company dislike distribution in europe. And we are a large market
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 4:01 PM Post #862 of 3,210
Our distribution price in the EU is always USD + VAT with currency correction. 2000Eu though is the old Flow price, it should be lower, please let me know the dealer and we will get that corrected.

It sucks that VAT adds so much to the EU price but that is entirely out of our control.
 
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Nov 22, 2018 at 4:29 PM Post #863 of 3,210
Our distribution price in the EU is always USD + VAT with currency correction. 2000Eu though is the old Flow price, it should be lower, please let me know the dealer and we will get that corrected.

It sucks that VAT adds so much to the EU price but that is entirely out of our control.

I live in US, but it still seems a mark-up in EU is considerable.
As of today, 1 USD = 0.88EUR.
So, $1500 = 1315 EUR
With 20% vat, it should be around 1578 EUR.
As Ether 1.1 is being sold at 2000 EUR in some countries, somebody between manufacturer and buyer is eating more than 400 EUR.
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 4:43 PM Post #865 of 3,210
Our distribution price in the EU is always USD + VAT with currency correction. 2000Eu though is the old Flow price, it should be lower, please let me know the dealer and we will get that corrected.

It sucks that VAT adds so much to the EU price but that is entirely out of our control.
sorry, just an explanation. if you commercial send to me private(outside USA), you apply usd+VAT and after i pay custom fee and Vat of my country. if you send to a distributor you are obliged to put VAT?
about the price of ether(open or closed), the price is 2.000€ in portugal, in italy and spain. i don´t want to imagine the ether 2 or voce
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 6:06 PM Post #866 of 3,210
I’ve now done some direct A/B comparison E2/Utopia. Note that I’m running my Utopia w/ Elex pads, which, to my ears, tilt them a little warmer to just rightsee this post for more.

tl,dr: Utopia presents more detail. Utopia is slightly more linear as my ears hear a bit of roll-off in E2 treble. Bass quantity is similar, but Utopia has better timbre. Sound stages are similar in size, but Utopia stage is more resolved/precise. Utopia is significantly more efficient. Comfort is close to a wash for me. Some might find the weight difference a big plus for E2, while folks with big ears may find E2 pad ear holes a bit cramped.

Not surprising that Utopia is more detailed, as that’s its hallmark. Here are a couple tests which highlight the difference:

Can you understand the conversation at the beginning of title track from Pink Floyd’s ‘Wish You Were Here’?
How well can you here the audience reaction to the line ‘Put some Neil Young on, and turn up the sound’ from Lucinda Williams’ track ‘Ventura’ off the Live at the Filmore album?

Tonality difference is just barely notable — they’re both neutral-ish, Utopia a bit brighter. You hear just a bit more ‘edge’ on some female vocals from Utopia (Joni Mitchell/Marissa Nader, not k.d. Lang/Sade), or acoustic guitar (Antoine Dufour, Dead ‘Reckoning’). Probably same number of listeners will say E2 is ‘rolled off’ as say Utopia is ‘bright’. Really noticeable on live Dead tracks.

Bass from Utopia has great timbre — you can really distinguish drum strikes from bass string plucks. And you get more ‘tone’ out of some percussion, like tom-toms & (especially) kettle drums. E2 bass has good impact and speed, without bloat or roll-off, but just not as ‘full’ and detailed. Aftertone/decay from each note of opening bass line of Jimi’s ‘Born Under a Bad Sign’ demonstrates this.

Sound stages seem similar size-wise in all three dimensions, with Utopia a touch more intimate, and the E2 slightly airier. But the Utopia stage is notably more precise. I refer to this as the ‘that instrument, right there’ effect, meaning that each instrument/voice is very precisely positioned in the image. Utopia also presents more space on tracks which use reverbs/echoey effects — Marissa Nadler ‘Christine’ & Mark Knofler/EmmyLou Harris ‘Beyond my Wildest Dreams’. It’s pretty noticeable on ‘Christine’.

<edit> I was writing the ‘bottom line’ section below w/ E2s and playing my ‘Big Faves’ playlist (1176 tracks) on shuffle. Steely Dan ‘Deacon Blues’ came up, and the staging seemed ‘really good’ — super defined and airy. So I A/B’d the track w/ Utopia. Turns out it’s really well-produced and has wonderful staging with all my cans. But still best from Utopia.</edit>

Utopia is much more efficient. If I set volume for E2 from BHA-1 using the high gain setting, switching to Utopia on low gain matches volume pretty well.

I’ve always found Utopia to be quite comfortable. They are heavy — but apparently I’m not sensitive to that since I don’t find my Blackwood Auteur uncomfortable either. E2 are much lighter, so if that matters then you’ll consider E2 much more comfortable. The holes in the E2 ear pads are smaller, and they are ear-shaped. I can easily imagine folks with large ears having problems there. Didn’t bother me.

Bottom line: I like E2 very much. Better than EFO 1.0, although EFO 1.1 is close. Side-grade compared to HEKv2 & Auteur — in fact, E2 kinda falls in the middle between those two. But I prefer the Utopia w/ Elex pads to E2 across the board. However, it’s surprisingly close to my ears. Several times during my comparisons I found myself checking to be sure which cans I had on.

And E2 comes in third in the ‘Dead-phones’ competition (best headphones for enjoying Grateful Dead music), behind Auteur in first, with Utopia a close second. E2 are waaaayyyyyyy ahead of HEKv2 languishing in last place.

1k posts, yay me!!!
I’ve been comparing Utopia/stock pads vs E2 today. Instead of saying: ‘Bass quantity is similar, but Utopia has better timbre’ I say: ‘A little more perceived bass from E2, especially mid-bass, but better timbre from Utopia.’ Utopia seems significantly brighter, and voices are quite a bit more forward in the mix.

I just got the 50th Anniversary White Album, which is the first album I ever owned. On ‘While my Guitar...’ John’s voice and George’s guitar are significantly brighter and more forward in the mix — John’s voice has some of the same edge as I mentioned female vocals presenting in my previous post.

Staging comments stand, with perhaps a slight bump in the sense of precision presented by Utopia/stock vs Utopia/Elex.

While I’m sure that my comment comparing bass will generate controversy, that’s what my ears hear. To my ears, the perceived lack of Utopia bass is all about the relatively elevated mids and brighter treble masking the bass. When I concentrate on just the bass, or listen to music which is bass-dominated, I hear just as much sub-bass and nearly as much mid-bass vs E2. And there’s more detail in the Utopia. Percussion on ‘Long, Long, Long’ has more tone vs more just thud from E2. Vibration of plucked bass strings on ‘Yer Blues’ is more evident from Utopia vs more just tone from E2.

In the Deadphones competition E2 vs Utopia/stock is very close. Maybe a nod to E2. The little bit of treble roll-off reduces the ‘front-row’ feel I prefer for live Dead recordings, and sucks just a bit of sweetness out of Jerry’s guitar. But the E2 bass increase boosts the ‘rolling thunder’ produced by Phil, Bill & Micky, which is nice. Staging of Utopia helps here. Utopia/Elex and Auteur are still in the lead.
 
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Nov 22, 2018 at 6:09 PM Post #867 of 3,210
So our EU Map on the ETHER Flow 1.1 line is 1,799€, the prices you are quoting are old prices pre-price reduction. We will work with those distributors on Monday to correct their prices, thanks for pointing that out.
 
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Nov 22, 2018 at 6:21 PM Post #868 of 3,210
I’ve been comparing Utopia/stock pads vs E2 today. Instead of saying: ‘Bass quantity is similar, but Utopia has better timbre’ I say: ‘A little more perceived bass from E2, especially mid-bass, but better timbre from Utopia.’ Utopia seems significantly brighter, and voices are quite a bit more forward in the mix.

I just got the 50th Anniversary White Album, which is the first album I ever owned. On ‘While my Guitar...’ John’s voice and George’s guitar are significantly brighter and more forward in the mix — John’s voice has some of the same edge as I mentioned female vocals presenting in my previous post.

Staging comments stand, with perhaps a slight bump in the sense of precision presented by Utopia/stock vs Utopia/Elex.

While I’m sure that my comment comparing bass will generate controversy, that’s what my ears hear. To my ears, the perceived lack of bass is all about the relatively elevated mids and brighter treble masking the bass. When I concentrate on just the bass, or listen to music which is bass-dominated, I hear just as much sub-bass and nearly as much mid-bass vs E2. And there’s more detail in the Utopia. Percussion on ‘Long, Long, Long’ has more tone vs more just thud from E2. Vibration of plucked bass strings on ‘Yer Blues’ is more evident from Utopia vs more just tone from E2.

In the Deadphones competition E2 vs Utopia/stock is very close. Maybe a nod to E2. The little bit of treble roll-off reduces the ‘front-row’ feel I prefer for live Dead recordings, and sucks just a bit of sweetness out of Jerry’s guitar. But the bass increase boosts the ‘rolling thunder’ produced by Phil, Bill & Micky, which is nice. Staging of Utopia helps here. Utopia/Elex and Auteur are still in the lead.

From Tyll's Utopia measurement and his EQ setting, I think the main issue is that Utopia's bass is not linear enough. I have yet to see Ether 2 measurement, and I can see some people do not much care linearity in bass, especially who prefer dynamic drivers. Here is how Tyll ended up his EQ setting on his review.

upload_2018-11-22_18-21-4.png
 
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Nov 22, 2018 at 6:31 PM Post #869 of 3,210
From Tyll's Utopia measurement and his EQ setting, I think the main issue is that Utopia's bass is not linear enough. I have yet to see Ether 2 measurement, and I can see some people do not much care linearity in bass, especially who prefer dynamic drivers. Here is how Tyll ended up his EQ setting on his review.

Yes but...Tyll’s Utopia was not stock, correct? Didn’t he write later to say that it was warmer than ‘stock’ (when he removed it from the Wall of Fame)? So many variables in this hobby.
 
Nov 22, 2018 at 6:34 PM Post #870 of 3,210
Yes but...Tyll’s Utopia was not stock, correct? Didn’t he write later to say that it was warmer than ‘stock’ (when he removed it from the Wall of Fame)? So many variables in this hobby.

Yes, but it is more about the existence of 4k peak. Slight mid-bass bump and bass roll-off still exist over 7 different Utopias. See the attached.

upload_2018-11-22_18-34-5.png
 

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