[Deezel177]

However, for some reason, you felt the need to say something about what he said or more aptly didn't say.

The reason is pretty simple, actually. I've noticed a trend of people airing their grievances about the Raven (many of whom have pre-ordered) consistently have their issues downplayed by CL. Whether it was the initial delay, the build quality issues that followed, the radio silence after that and, now, the most recent delay, they were consistently told to not worry and just be patient. Sometimes, there'd even be a justification like, "There's a reason why," or "The units I tried didn't break," or "So, did the CanJam units break or not?" Afterwards, there'd be a argument where that person would say, "Well, who are you to tell me not to worry about my $3000+ purchase? What do you know that I don't?" followed by CL going, "Well, I'm not at liberty to say. I don't know why you think I've implied anything." One time, he even said a person was talking out of their orifice, only for Jack to prove that person right and say that their unit was poorly built. As you said, it's a script we've seen before; many times before.

Unfortunately, it's resulted in a number of people - people I know and have talked to - either afraid or reluctant to voice their concerns, because of the back-and-forth's they know will inevitably follow. Even those who want to just talk about EE products (like @gLer, who just repurchased a Legend X and was eager to talk about it on other channels) have been actively repelled from this thread by either the negative vibes, or people like you who've told people to leave if they don't like your replies. "Just change the channel," was how you put it, right? So, for me, the reason to post what I did is to hopefully address the issues that have been plaguing this thread and assist in its return to normalcy. Whenever I've talked to brands, one of the non-negotiables they all have in common is a healthy, thriving Head-Fi thread. They say it's one of the best drivers of business, and it's their best resource for concerns, complaints and ways to improve in the future. At the rate it's going, there'll be none of any of that here.

Not everyone follows the same rules of speech etiquette, obviously I never have and could care less what anyone thinks. We will all march in place and say nothing unless it is agreeable to the masses. I don't think so...maybe in some threads where there may be a "controlled" tribe mentality.

It's ironic that you mention having a "controlled" mentality to a thread, because this is currently one of the most oppressive threads I've ever seen on Head-Fi. One hint of a complaint, or someone asking for a measly ETA gets hit with, "I wouldn't worry if I were you." "Be patient." "These things happen all the time." "Oh, explain why I can say any of these things? No, it's classified." I don't know of any other thread with that degree of "control." Every other one I've been on, whenever an issue with the brand is brought up, it's usually met with empathy first, then an open discussion second. Usually, a brand rep or dealer would even chime in and quickly resolve the issue. That sounds lovely. I miss seeing that here.

The same $3000 purchase folks could have exercised their right to cancel. Many moons ago, it felt important to say cancel your pre order, wait until the dust settles. The other option is too boohoo, whine and cry about the perceived terrible treatment, it seems the majority of folks chose the latter.

Is it considered boohoo-ing, whining and crying to just ask for an update or an ETA? That's kinda soft, don't you think? I mean, wondering where one's luxury purchase is after months of delay, weeks of recall, then another month of delay should be a basic right, no?

Also, seems many people that didn't pre order or will never purchase the Raven have decided to come over here and expertly criticize. That is your right to do, but then everyone will come out of the woodwork to flame me for responding and to increase their "likes". Wash, rinse and repeat. We've seen the script before.

Wasn't it just a month ago that Jack's update was met with universal acclaim, including the people you claim have boohooed, whined and cried? So, this isn't a Raven or EE issue, as much as it is an everything I talked about on my last post issue. Speaking of likes, I couldn't care less about them. I certainly am not saying all this just to up my like count. But, if there is one thing I can say with confidence about likes, it's that they can be a pretty reliable indicator of whether or not people agree with what you've written. 'Just sayin'.

I have committed the crime of using inside knowledge vaguely in a way to try and quell concerns. Optimism is a damned sin here huh? When is my public execution?

Name me one occasion where your attempt to quell concerns has actually worked, and hasn't instead done the opposite. Just one. You'd think by the fifth debate on this thread with people not liking your use of "inside knowledge," you'd take the hint that - maybe, just maybe - you're not exactly helping. I mean, the public execution of your credibility happened a long time ago. A ton of people have you blocked and they still left the thread 'cus of the debates you kept having with people. EE probably lost good business in the process, so I hope this was all a worthy crusade for you.

I will say… That it’s pretty wild that someone boasting about their perceived correct way of handling privileged information… would publicly out Jack and suggest he has been disingenuous to fellow paying customer and friend. Tell me more about honor.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... slow your horses, there! I don't know what you read, but what I wrote was, "I even know how Jack really feels about this specific thing we're talking about." I didn't mention any individual - customer or friend - there. Heck, who's to say I'm even talking about a person? Maybe, I'm just talking about the overall... You know what, I'll just let my friend here give it to you succinctly:

It's very likely he was trying his best to bring the heat down, and instead it inflamed things even more.

And, such an effort would be appreciated, even if it did bring about unexpected (or even inverse) results. However, by the fourth or fifth time they've done it and people have told them to stop, you'd think they'd get the hint. I don't know what you call what CL's been doing here the past several weeks (months, even), but helping definitely isn't the word I'd use. I appreciate your posts, though, oldguy. I understand you're coming from a good place, and I appreciate your attempts at having everyone come to a mutual understanding. I hope that comes to fruition too.

Why are we still pointing at each other nose here?
Like I said, nobody here is wrong. What is wrong is being left in the dark without any update and information and yes it's almost christmas holiday, so maybe Jack has a plan to send it on 25 December as a christmas present? Maybe with some cookies too? Who knows
It's not about the money. Simply ask for refund? Nope, that's not the point. What they want is a product that they paid with their hard earned money and they have every right to complain with this kind of treatment IMO

I agree, 1000%! Now, let's see if you get absolutely hounded, or if what I said has discouraged that behavior and made a difference after all.

 

[osocan]

The reason is pretty simple, actually. I've noticed a trend of people airing their grievances about the Raven (many of whom have pre-ordered) consistently have their issues downplayed by CL. Whether it was the initial delay, the build quality issues that followed, the radio silence after that and, now, the most recent delay, they were consistently told to not worry and just be patient. Sometimes, there'd even be a justification like, "There's a reason why," or "The units I tried didn't break," or "So, did the CanJam units break or not?" Afterwards, there'd be a argument where that person would say, "Well, who are you to tell me not to worry about my $3000+ purchase? What do you know that I don't?" followed by CL going, "Well, I'm not at liberty to say. I don't know why you think I've implied anything." One time, he even said a person was talking out of their orifice, only for Jack to prove that person right and say that their unit was poorly built. As you said, it's a script we've seen before; many times before.

Unfortunately, it's resulted in a number of people - people I know and have talked to - either afraid or reluctant to voice their concerns, because of the back-and-forth's they know will inevitably follow. Even those who want to just talk about EE products (like @gLer, who just repurchased a Legend X and was eager to talk about it on other channels) have been actively repelled from this thread by either the negative vibes, or people like you who've told people to leave if they don't like your replies. "Just change the channel," was how you put it, right? So, for me, the reason to post what I did is to hopefully address the issues that have been plaguing this thread and assist in its return to normalcy. Whenever I've talked to brands, one of the non-negotiables they all have in common is a healthy, thriving Head-Fi thread. They say it's one of the best drivers of business, and it's their best resource for concerns, complaints and ways to improve in the future. At the rate it's going, there'll be none of any of that here.


It's ironic that you mention having a "controlled" mentality to a thread, because this is currently one of the most oppressive threads I've ever seen on Head-Fi. One hint of a complaint, or someone asking for a measly ETA gets hit with, "I wouldn't worry if I were you." "Be patient." "These things happen all the time." "Oh, explain why I can say any of these things? No, it's classified." I don't know of any other thread with that degree of "control." Every other one I've been on, whenever an issue with the brand is brought up, it's usually met with empathy first, then an open discussion second. Usually, a brand rep or dealer would even chime in and quickly resolve the issue. That sounds lovely. I miss seeing that here.


Is it considered boohoo-ing, whining and crying to just ask for an update or an ETA? That's kinda soft, don't you think? I mean, wondering where one's luxury purchase is after months of delay, weeks of recall, then another month of delay should be a basic right, no?


Wasn't it just a month ago that Jack's update was met with universal acclaim, including the people you claim have boohooed, whined and cried? So, this isn't a Raven or EE issue, as much as it is an everything I talked about on my last post issue. Speaking of likes, I couldn't care less about them. I certainly am not saying all this just to up my like count. But, if there is one thing I can say with confidence about likes, it's that they can be a pretty reliable indicator of whether or not people agree with what you've written. 'Just sayin'.


Name me one occasion where your attempt to quell concerns has actually worked, and hasn't instead done the opposite. Just one. You'd think by the fifth debate on this thread with people not liking your use of "inside knowledge," you'd take the hint that - maybe, just maybe - you're not exactly helping. I mean, the public execution of your credibility happened a long time ago. A ton of people have you blocked and they still left the thread 'cus of the debates you kept having with people. EE probably lost good business in the process, so I hope this was all a worthy crusade for you.


Whoa, whoa, whoa... slow your horses, there! I don't know what you read, but what I wrote was, "I even know how Jack really feels about this specific thing we're talking about." I didn't mention any individual - customer or friend - there. Heck, who's to say I'm even talking about a person? Maybe, I'm just talking about the overall... You know what, I'll just let my friend here give it to you succinctly:




And, such an effort would be appreciated, even if it did bring about unexpected (or even inverse) results. However, by the fourth or fifth time they've done it and people have told them to stop, you'd think they'd get the hint. I don't know what you call what CL's been doing here the past several weeks (months, even), but helping definitely isn't the word I'd use. I appreciate your posts, though, oldguy. I understand you're coming from a good place, and I appreciate your attempts at having everyone come to a mutual understanding. I hope that comes to fruition too.


I agree, 1000%! Now, let's see if you get absolutely hounded, or if what I said has discouraged that behavior and made a difference after all.

I really like what you said

I am one of those who advocate cancelling the order if one is uncomfortable with the whole situation.

But for those who stuck on, they obviously have their reasons for doing so. They have a right to know what exactly is going on. Therefore it’s only natural they rely on this thread to voice their concerns and anxieties.

Kudos for speaking out.

 

[KuroKitsu]

There's a potential to make a killing selling asbestos socks here. Just sayin.

All I want is to demo Raven

 

[Progisus]

While waiting for Raven news I thought I would revisit EQ and my Odin. Using AutoEQ I created multi impulse files, zipped them and inserted them in a Roon convolution filter. I did bump the low shelf by 4db (I confess to being a bass head). The AutoEQ corrections addressed the hot mids. I was very impressed with the result and it leaves the original positives characters of Odin in place while completely fixing the mids for me. I pass this through hqplayer to my Chord TT and have been enjoying the Odin like never before. I tried the same with my LX but I prefer it with no EQ. It does limit my listening devices to roon. Anyone else have good EQ result stories?

 

[subguy812]

The reason is pretty simple, actually. I've noticed a trend of people airing their grievances about the Raven (many of whom have pre-ordered) consistently have their issues downplayed by CL. Whether it was the initial delay, the build quality issues that followed, the radio silence after that and, now, the most recent delay, they were consistently told to not worry and just be patient. Sometimes, there'd even be a justification like, "There's a reason why," or "The units I tried didn't break," or "So, did the CanJam units break or not?" Afterwards, there'd be a argument where that person would say, "Well, who are you to tell me not to worry about my $3000+ purchase? What do you know that I don't?" followed by CL going, "Well, I'm not at liberty to say. I don't know why you think I've implied anything." One time, he even said a person was talking out of their orifice, only for Jack to prove that person right and say that their unit was poorly built. As you said, it's a script we've seen before; many times before.

Unfortunately, it's resulted in a number of people - people I know and have talked to - either afraid or reluctant to voice their concerns, because of the back-and-forth's they know will inevitably follow. Even those who want to just talk about EE products (like @gLer, who just repurchased a Legend X and was eager to talk about it on other channels) have been actively repelled from this thread by either the negative vibes, or people like you who've told people to leave if they don't like your replies. "Just change the channel," was how you put it, right? So, for me, the reason to post what I did is to hopefully address the issues that have been plaguing this thread and assist in its return to normalcy. Whenever I've talked to brands, one of the non-negotiables they all have in common is a healthy, thriving Head-Fi thread. They say it's one of the best drivers of business, and it's their best resource for concerns, complaints and ways to improve in the future. At the rate it's going, there'll be none of any of that here.


It's ironic that you mention having a "controlled" mentality to a thread, because this is currently one of the most oppressive threads I've ever seen on Head-Fi. One hint of a complaint, or someone asking for a measly ETA gets hit with, "I wouldn't worry if I were you." "Be patient." "These things happen all the time." "Oh, explain why I can say any of these things? No, it's classified." I don't know of any other thread with that degree of "control." Every other one I've been on, whenever an issue with the brand is brought up, it's usually met with empathy first, then an open discussion second. Usually, a brand rep or dealer would even chime in and quickly resolve the issue. That sounds lovely. I miss seeing that here.


Is it considered boohoo-ing, whining and crying to just ask for an update or an ETA? That's kinda soft, don't you think? I mean, wondering where one's luxury purchase is after months of delay, weeks of recall, then another month of delay should be a basic right, no?

Once again Subguydamus prophesied and it came true, retort and likes.

Controlled thread(?) and you freely voiced your opinion here. I wouldn't try that in any other threads that I see. When someone's opinion doesn't align with the "group" they are castigated by said group. Hypocrisy is the norm. Happens time and time again, "I don't like your tone", "It is okay to disagree, just say it the way we want you to say it or it isn't welcome".

Very proud of you young man, glad to see you respond. That said, If people aren't happy with something, why come around it? Is it the same reason folks must crane their necks to see an accident? If you don't like what is on TV do you watch? Change the channel, isn't about my opinion or necessarily about my replies. It could be, but in general, If you aren't happy with how CL responds, why endure it? Come, see what's going on but I sure as heck wouldn't endure his BS if I didn't want to.

My comments have very little to do with EE, and more the mindset. I have only tried to say people have freewill, my advice is to exercise it. I have said that since the beginning of "socketgate". I didn't buy the Cayin N30LE, yes I am sure I am missing out, but too many issues, so I have exercised my freewill and didn't purchase it. I also, haven't ordered a Raven. Not bitching or complaining about either inanimate object, just stating a fact. I have clearly stated, rather than whine, exercise your consumer right, don't buy it. Seems to be tough to understand for some.

It appears to me you have chosen to quote my post and voice your beef with CL when quoting my post, not sure why.

I realize needing others validation and likes are important to some. I can appreciate the need to belong.

GLer did come here and talked about Legend X and we all chimed in about his decision and it was pure harmony, if he felt some kind of way about it not sure why but I can't control how he feels, although I respect his opinion. Kumbaya, rainbows and unicorns.

I agree with many things you said, but I take exception with a couple. First off, just because you may think something is healthy, doesn't make it so. That is what you think is healthy and not everyone may agree. That is why individuals tend to stay with like minded individuals. Again, it is okay to agree to disagree. Keep in mind knowledge and wisdom are two different things. You lack one I am sure you have the knowledge to figure out which it is. Secondly, my wish is for you to stop applying my comments to your narrative or interpretation. There is no manipulation or agenda in my comments, they are straight forward with only the written meaning. Whether you fancy me a *ick for my comments or perceived tone is something you are allowed to do with the same freewill I have referenced above.

Since you are carrying the torch for so many voices here, you open yourself to rebuke. Again, it is normal to have tranquility with like minded individuals, the secret to society is how you navigate with those, such as myself, you don't think like. Options are, adopt all of the message, some of the message or none of the message. The key to inner tranquility is to stay sheltered within your safety zone or learn to say "We are going to have to agree to disagree".

Put your logic "cap" on when presented with an argument, and take emotion out of it as much as possible. Think beyond your gut reaction that what someone says "makes sense" — consider, using logic, whether what he or she said leading up to that conclusion is true or possible.

 

[CL14715]

The reason is pretty simple, actually. I've noticed a trend of people airing their grievances about the Raven (many of whom have pre-ordered) consistently have their issues downplayed by CL. Whether it was the initial delay, the build quality issues that followed, the radio silence after that and, now, the most recent delay, they were consistently told to not worry and just be patient. Sometimes, there'd even be a justification like, "There's a reason why," or "The units I tried didn't break," or "So, did the CanJam units break or not?" Afterwards, there'd be a argument where that person would say, "Well, who are you to tell me not to worry about my $3000+ purchase? What do you know that I don't?" followed by CL going, "Well, I'm not at liberty to say. I don't know why you think I've implied anything." One time, he even said a person was talking out of their orifice, only for Jack to prove that person right and say that their unit was poorly built. As you said, it's a script we've seen before; many times before.

Unfortunately, it's resulted in a number of people - people I know and have talked to - either afraid or reluctant to voice their concerns, because of the back-and-forth's they know will inevitably follow. Even those who want to just talk about EE products (like @gLer, who just repurchased a Legend X and was eager to talk about it on other channels) have been actively repelled from this thread by either the negative vibes, or people like you who've told people to leave if they don't like your replies. "Just change the channel," was how you put it, right? So, for me, the reason to post what I did is to hopefully address the issues that have been plaguing this thread and assist in its return to normalcy. Whenever I've talked to brands, one of the non-negotiables they all have in common is a healthy, thriving Head-Fi thread. They say it's one of the best drivers of business, and it's their best resource for concerns, complaints and ways to improve in the future. At the rate it's going, there'll be none of any of that here.


It's ironic that you mention having a "controlled" mentality to a thread, because this is currently one of the most oppressive threads I've ever seen on Head-Fi. One hint of a complaint, or someone asking for a measly ETA gets hit with, "I wouldn't worry if I were you." "Be patient." "These things happen all the time." "Oh, explain why I can say any of these things? No, it's classified." I don't know of any other thread with that degree of "control." Every other one I've been on, whenever an issue with the brand is brought up, it's usually met with empathy first, then an open discussion second. Usually, a brand rep or dealer would even chime in and quickly resolve the issue. That sounds lovely. I miss seeing that here.


Is it considered boohoo-ing, whining and crying to just ask for an update or an ETA? That's kinda soft, don't you think? I mean, wondering where one's luxury purchase is after months of delay, weeks of recall, then another month of delay should be a basic right, no?


Wasn't it just a month ago that Jack's update was met with universal acclaim, including the people you claim have boohooed, whined and cried? So, this isn't a Raven or EE issue, as much as it is an everything I talked about on my last post issue. Speaking of likes, I couldn't care less about them. I certainly am not saying all this just to up my like count. But, if there is one thing I can say with confidence about likes, it's that they can be a pretty reliable indicator of whether or not people agree with what you've written. 'Just sayin'.


Name me one occasion where your attempt to quell concerns has actually worked, and hasn't instead done the opposite. Just one. You'd think by the fifth debate on this thread with people not liking your use of "inside knowledge," you'd take the hint that - maybe, just maybe - you're not exactly helping. I mean, the public execution of your credibility happened a long time ago. A ton of people have you blocked and they still left the thread 'cus of the debates you kept having with people. EE probably lost good business in the process, so I hope this was all a worthy crusade for you.


Whoa, whoa, whoa... slow your horses, there! I don't know what you read, but what I wrote was, "I even know how Jack really feels about this specific thing we're talking about." I didn't mention any individual - customer or friend - there. Heck, who's to say I'm even talking about a person? Maybe, I'm just talking about the overall... You know what, I'll just let my friend here give it to you succinctly:




And, such an effort would be appreciated, even if it did bring about unexpected (or even inverse) results. However, by the fourth or fifth time they've done it and people have told them to stop, you'd think they'd get the hint. I don't know what you call what CL's been doing here the past several weeks (months, even), but helping definitely isn't the word I'd use. I appreciate your posts, though, oldguy. I understand you're coming from a good place, and I appreciate your attempts at having everyone come to a mutual understanding. I hope that comes to fruition too.


I agree, 1000%! Now, let's see if you get absolutely hounded, or if what I said has discouraged that behavior and made a difference after all.

You see, I cannot quantify or qualify if or how much I have helped other people. Your specific opinion or that of those who align with yours doesn’t represent everyone. Mighty arrogant to think otherwise.

 

[Hoegaardener70]

The same $3000 purchase folks could have exercised their right to cancel. Many moons ago, it felt important to say cancel your pre order, wait until the dust settles. The other option is too boohoo, whine and cry about the perceived terrible treatment, it seems the majority of folks chose the latter.

This post makes it sound as the whole thing was transparent and foreseeable. Preorder …
1. weeks no word of the delay and how long (and yes, here I should have cancelled).
2. Then the issue with the broken connectors. I sensed this would be complicated and I tried to return the Raven which was refused (at least not for free) by the trader at that time.
3. Announce of reshelling with a tight deadline. I sent it in knowing that otherwise I won’t be able anytime now or in the future to sell the Raven. It’s not that I planned to do that, but I feel it’s my right to do so if I chose to. Without reshelling… forget it.
4. Well, I talked about my personal issue here before which is individual. It still sucks for me, nevertheless.

But I think all paying Raven customers share more or less the frustration and bad vibe with this purchase from1-3.

All I want from EE is more communication, really. I can handle all of this, but the silence around all these is very disappointing.

I know there is nothing new to this post. But maybe I just like to vent my uttter frustration with the worst “luxury” purchase I ever made. And the faint hope EE might drop a message after weeks and months of silence here.

 

[KuroKitsu]

Unfortunately, it's resulted in a number of people - people I know and have talked to - either afraid or reluctant to voice their concerns, because of the back-and-forth's they know will inevitably follow. Even those who want to just talk about EE products (like @gLer, who just repurchased a Legend X and was eager to talk about it on other channels) have been actively repelled from this thread by either the negative vibes, or people like you who've told people to leave if they don't like your replies. "Just change the channel," was how you put it, right? So, for me, the reason to post what I did is to hopefully address the issues that have been plaguing this thread and assist in its return to normalcy.

A ton of people have you blocked and they still left the thread 'cus of the debates you kept having with people. EE probably lost good business in the process, so I hope this was all a worthy crusade for you.

There really isn't much going on here if you mash the ignore button sadly. Thats probably one of the biggest reasons to go elsewhere and discuss.

Meanwhile, I've diversified into asbestos clothing, anyone need some?

 

[subguy812]

This post makes it sound as the whole thing was transparent and foreseeable. Preorder …
1. weeks no word of the delay and how long (and yes, here I should have cancelled).
2. Then the issue with the broken connectors. I sensed this would be complicated and I tried to return the Raven which was refused (at least not for free) by the trader at that time.
3. Announce of reshelling with a tight deadline. I sent it in knowing that otherwise I won’t be able anytime now or in the future to sell the Raven. It’s not that I planned to do that, but I feel it’s my right to do so if I chose to. Without reshelling… forget it.
4. Well, I talked about my personal issue here before which is individual. It still sucks for me, nevertheless.

But I think all paying Raven customers share more or less the frustration and bad vibe with this purchase from1-3.

All I want from EE is more communication, really. I can handle all of this, but the silence around all these is very disappointing.

I know there is nothing new to this post. But maybe I just like to vent my uttter frustration with the worst “luxury” purchase I ever made. And the faint hope EE might drop a message after weeks and months of silence here.

Guess what... you make sense. Again, as the consumer everything you are feeling is how you feel. You know, you can only control what you can control and the rest you can't really worry about.. Once the dust settles I will buy Raven, but if folks don't, okay. I like EE and I like Jack & Dean, but I have learned a long time ago to never let my emotions cloud my decision making or my comments. Somehow, I am still called a fanboy here, by folks that see what they want to see in my posts.

 

[subguy812]

There really isn't much going on here if you mash the ignore button sadly. Thats probably one of the biggest reasons to go elsewhere and discuss.

Meanwhile, I've diversified into asbestos clothing, anyone need some?

It just seemed to fit at the moment!

 

[goatkidbaahcity]

Its my understanding (inside sources, don't ask) that EE's surprise plan to have the replacements spectacularly delivered to their new owners via raven hit a snag when someone at the office accidently ordered crows instead. As soon as Jack can train the birds stop putting up a fuss over the tiny little Santa hats they need to wear all should be sorted.

 

[KuroKitsu]

inside sources, don't ask

That should be the custom flair for a few folks here

 

[Rockwell75]

The reason is pretty simple, actually. I've noticed a trend of people airing their grievances about the Raven (many of whom have pre-ordered) consistently have their issues downplayed by CL. Whether it was the initial delay, the build quality issues that followed, the radio silence after that and, now, the most recent delay, they were consistently told to not worry and just be patient. Sometimes, there'd even be a justification like, "There's a reason why," or "The units I tried didn't break," or "So, did the CanJam units break or not?" Afterwards, there'd be a argument where that person would say, "Well, who are you to tell me not to worry about my $3000+ purchase? What do you know that I don't?" followed by CL going, "Well, I'm not at liberty to say. I don't know why you think I've implied anything." One time, he even said a person was talking out of their orifice, only for Jack to prove that person right and say that their unit was poorly built. As you said, it's a script we've seen before; many times before.

Unfortunately, it's resulted in a number of people - people I know and have talked to - either afraid or reluctant to voice their concerns, because of the back-and-forth's they know will inevitably follow. Even those who want to just talk about EE products (like @gLer, who just repurchased a Legend X and was eager to talk about it on other channels) have been actively repelled from this thread by either the negative vibes, or people like you who've told people to leave if they don't like your replies. "Just change the channel," was how you put it, right? So, for me, the reason to post what I did is to hopefully address the issues that have been plaguing this thread and assist in its return to normalcy. Whenever I've talked to brands, one of the non-negotiables they all have in common is a healthy, thriving Head-Fi thread. They say it's one of the best drivers of business, and it's their best resource for concerns, complaints and ways to improve in the future. At the rate it's going, there'll be none of any of that here.


It's ironic that you mention having a "controlled" mentality to a thread, because this is currently one of the most oppressive threads I've ever seen on Head-Fi. One hint of a complaint, or someone asking for a measly ETA gets hit with, "I wouldn't worry if I were you." "Be patient." "These things happen all the time." "Oh, explain why I can say any of these things? No, it's classified." I don't know of any other thread with that degree of "control." Every other one I've been on, whenever an issue with the brand is brought up, it's usually met with empathy first, then an open discussion second. Usually, a brand rep or dealer would even chime in and quickly resolve the issue. That sounds lovely. I miss seeing that here.


Is it considered boohoo-ing, whining and crying to just ask for an update or an ETA? That's kinda soft, don't you think? I mean, wondering where one's luxury purchase is after months of delay, weeks of recall, then another month of delay should be a basic right, no?


Wasn't it just a month ago that Jack's update was met with universal acclaim, including the people you claim have boohooed, whined and cried? So, this isn't a Raven or EE issue, as much as it is an everything I talked about on my last post issue. Speaking of likes, I couldn't care less about them. I certainly am not saying all this just to up my like count. But, if there is one thing I can say with confidence about likes, it's that they can be a pretty reliable indicator of whether or not people agree with what you've written. 'Just sayin'.


Name me one occasion where your attempt to quell concerns has actually worked, and hasn't instead done the opposite. Just one. You'd think by the fifth debate on this thread with people not liking your use of "inside knowledge," you'd take the hint that - maybe, just maybe - you're not exactly helping. I mean, the public execution of your credibility happened a long time ago. A ton of people have you blocked and they still left the thread 'cus of the debates you kept having with people. EE probably lost good business in the process, so I hope this was all a worthy crusade for you.


Whoa, whoa, whoa... slow your horses, there! I don't know what you read, but what I wrote was, "I even know how Jack really feels about this specific thing we're talking about." I didn't mention any individual - customer or friend - there. Heck, who's to say I'm even talking about a person? Maybe, I'm just talking about the overall... You know what, I'll just let my friend here give it to you succinctly:




And, such an effort would be appreciated, even if it did bring about unexpected (or even inverse) results. However, by the fourth or fifth time they've done it and people have told them to stop, you'd think they'd get the hint. I don't know what you call what CL's been doing here the past several weeks (months, even), but helping definitely isn't the word I'd use. I appreciate your posts, though, oldguy. I understand you're coming from a good place, and I appreciate your attempts at having everyone come to a mutual understanding. I hope that comes to fruition too.


I agree, 1000%! Now, let's see if you get absolutely hounded, or if what I said has discouraged that behavior and made a difference after all.

Well said.

I only came here due to morbid curiosity. By all accounts Jack and Dean are great guys who are dedicated to their craft. Unfortunately as often happens with these boutique brands they are likely more focused on the creative and artistic side of their business and don’t pay as much attention to the PR end of things. My advice would be for them to invest in a dedicated and capable rep on head fi who could act as the official spokesperson for the brand. This would bring a degree of professionalism, gravitas and clarity to this thread and prevent it from being continuously hijacked and driven off a cliff by Head Fi’s short bus which, for whatever reason, has been parked here for a few years now.

 

[RonaldS86]

No skin in the game whatsoever here. But simply, yes. Agreed.

Hope you have your asbestos jocks on, Ronald

There's a potential to make a killing selling asbestos socks here. Just sayin.

All I want is to demo Raven

Nahh, I'm quite thick skinned and heat resistant if I know and believe that what I said is right

 

[RonaldS86]

However, for some reason, you felt the need to say something about what he said or more aptly didn't say.

Not everyone follows the same rules of speech etiquette, obviously I never have and could care less what anyone thinks. We will all march in place and say nothing unless it is agreeable to the masses. I don't think so...maybe in some threads where there may be a "controlled" tribe mentality.

The same $3000 purchase folks could have exercised their right to cancel. Many moons ago, it felt important to say cancel your pre order, wait until the dust settles. The other option is too boohoo, whine and cry about the perceived terrible treatment, it seems the majority of folks chose the latter.

Also, seems many people that didn't pre order or will never purchase the Raven have decided to come over here and expertly criticize. That is your right to do, but then everyone will come out of the woodwork to flame me for responding and to increase their "likes". Wash, rinse and repeat. We've seen the script before.

Once again Subguydamus prophesied and it came true, retort and likes.

Controlled thread(?) and you freely voiced your opinion here. I wouldn't try that in any other threads that I see. When someone's opinion doesn't align with the "group" they are castigated by said group. Hypocrisy is the norm. Happens time and time again, "I don't like your tone", "It is okay to disagree, just say it the way we want you to say it or it isn't welcome".

Very proud of you young man, glad to see you respond. That said, If people aren't happy with something, why come around it? Is it the same reason folks must crane their necks to see an accident? If you don't like what is on TV do you watch? Change the channel, isn't about my opinion or necessarily about my replies. It could be, but in general, If you aren't happy with how CL responds, why endure it? Come, see what's going on but I sure as heck wouldn't endure his BS if I didn't want to.

My comments have very little to do with EE, and more the mindset. I have only tried to say people have freewill, my advice is to exercise it. I have said that since the beginning of "socketgate". I didn't buy the Cayin N30LE, yes I am sure I am missing out, but too many issues, so I have exercised my freewill and didn't purchase it. I also, haven't ordered a Raven. Not bitching or complaining about either inanimate object, just stating a fact. I have clearly stated, rather than whine, exercise your consumer right, don't buy it. Seems to be tough to understand for some.

It appears to me you have chosen to quote my post and voice your beef with CL when quoting my post, not sure why.

I realize needing others validation and likes are important to some. I can appreciate the need to belong.

GLer did come here and talked about Legend X and we all chimed in about his decision and it was pure harmony, if he felt some kind of way about it not sure why but I can't control how he feels, although I respect his opinion. Kumbaya, rainbows and unicorns.

I agree with many things you said, but I take exception with a couple. First off, just because you may think something is healthy, doesn't make it so. That is what you think is healthy and not everyone may agree. That is why individuals tend to stay with like minded individuals. Again, it is okay to agree to disagree. Keep in mind knowledge and wisdom are two different things. You lack one I am sure you have the knowledge to figure out which it is. Secondly, my wish is for you to stop applying my comments to your narrative or interpretation. There is no manipulation or agenda in my comments, they are straight forward with only the written meaning. Whether you fancy me a *ick for my comments or perceived tone is something you are allowed to do with the same freewill I have referenced above.

Since you are carrying the torch for so many voices here, you open yourself to rebuke. Again, it is normal to have tranquility with like minded individuals, the secret to society is how you navigate with those, such as myself, you don't think like. Options are, adopt all of the message, some of the message or none of the message. The key to inner tranquility is to stay sheltered within your safety zone or learn to say "We are going to have to agree to disagree".

Put your logic "cap" on when presented with an argument, and take emotion out of it as much as possible. Think beyond your gut reaction that what someone says "makes sense" — consider, using logic, whether what he or she said leading up to that conclusion is true or possible.

Guess what... you make sense. Again, as the consumer everything you are feeling is how you feel. You know, you can only control what you can control and the rest you can't really worry about.. Once the dust settles I will buy Raven, but if folks don't, okay. I like EE and I like Jack & Dean, but I have learned a long time ago to never let my emotions cloud my decision making or my comments. Somehow, I am still called a fanboy here, by folks that see what they want to see in my posts.

For someone who said "I could care less about what anyone thinks.", you actually pretty responsive and care about what people thinks

Well said.

I only came here due to morbid curiosity. By all accounts Jack and Dean are great guys who are dedicated to their craft. Unfortunately as often happens with these boutique brands they are likely more focused on the creative and artistic side of their business and don’t pay as much attention to the PR end of things. My advice would be for them to invest in a dedicated and capable rep on head fi who could act as the official spokesperson for the brand. This would bring a degree of professionalism, gravitas and clarity to this thread and prevent it from being continuously hijacked and driven off a cliff by Head Fi’s short bus which, for whatever reason, has been parked here for a few years now.

Well, that is their obvious solution for this problem that happened here. Maybe someone here can apply to Jack to be his official rep in this thread? I'm sure that will be better than having someone with a rep wannabe mentality around in this thread