[bluestorm1992]

Are we really going back to this non-sense after so many others hype so many other products or brands on this forum without accusations? No one has ever given me a dime. I haven’t been compensated for the tens of thousands of dollars I’ve spent to travel to GA to visit their HQ. I’ve never asked for it either. I’ve been fortunate enough to be afforded opportunities to demo products just like anyone else who invests the time or money to do so. I pay just like everyone else as a fan of the hobby. It truly sucks that there’s so many fragile personalities on here that can’t fathom that.

Most importantly, I’ve never once stated it wasn’t a problem. It could in fact be a problem but there’s not enough data to support that yet. Hell, the man himself just pulled out and re-inserted the cable without an issue so what’s up? Even if it turned into a full scale problem, I can say “nice words” about the matter at hand because I know it’ll be handled. There’s nothing wrong with being a voice of reason or reassurance about the issue while others choose to panic, especially considering it’s remediable. It’s a new product and like many others, it’s not immune to unforeseen obstacles. If one chooses to be disgusted by that, it says a lot about their character. I’m not affiliated with EE… I just like their sound, products and professionalism. Accept it and move on.

Good. I wish you could one day know how some people have been talking about your “performance” in this thread.

 

[CL14715]

Good. I wish you could one day know how some people have been talking about your “performance” in this thread.

Oh my goodness. I’m being critiqued about a non-existent metric? How will I ever recover!?

 

[zoidbb]

Good. I wish you could one day know how some people have been talking about your “performance” in this thread.

This is so weird. People in this hobby get so obsessive over people and/or brands.

 

[bluestorm1992]

This is so weird. People in this hobby get so obsessive over people and/or brands.

Honestly I haven’t seen anyone who’s so obsessive to a brand in the same way as Mr. CL has been obsessive with EE.

I am now also obsessed with exposing such behavior.

 

[zoidbb]

Honestly I haven’t seen anyone who’s so obsessive to a brand in the same way as Mr. CL has been obsessive with EE.

I am now also obsessed with exposing such behavior.

You must not get out much. This happens with all sorts of brands. I ran into people like this, and the opposite of this, on the N30LE thread. I’ve seen people be like this over sennheiser. Or decware. It’s everywhere.

 

[zoidbb]

Honestly I haven’t seen anyone who’s so obsessive to a brand in the same way as Mr. CL has been obsessive with EE.

I am now also obsessed with exposing such behavior.

And for the record the way you’re behaving is the same sort of thing. And it’s also completely unhelpful.

 

[bluestorm1992]

And for the record the way you’re behaving is the same sort of thing. And it’s also completely unhelpful.

I know, and I am not denying that. I wasn’t trying to be helpful either in the first place. Just want to make this clear.

 

[CL14715]

This is so weird. People in this hobby get so obsessive over people and/or brands.

It really is lol. You can’t like something without others thinking there’s an ulterior motive.

Mind you, I love Odin and let everyone know. Then heard Traillii and sold Odin as it was superior to me. Not only that, I then went to EE HQ and brought my Traillii to A/B against other proto’s as a benchmark. I mean it doesn’t get any more blatant than that. I literally took another brands IEM into their house to compare it to their upcoming work to say, if it’s not at this level, I’m good for now. The best part was they were all super cool about it and even encouraged it.

 

[Frainen]

Are we really going back to this non-sense after so many others hype so many other products or brands on this forum without accusations? No one has ever given me a dime. I haven’t been compensated for the tens of thousands of dollars I’ve spent to travel to GA to visit their HQ. I’ve never asked for it either. I’ve been fortunate enough to be afforded opportunities to demo products just like anyone else who invests the time or money to do so. I pay just like everyone else as a fan of the hobby. It truly sucks that there’s so many fragile personalities on here that can’t fathom that.

Most importantly, I’ve never once stated it wasn’t a problem. It could in fact be a problem but there’s not enough data to support that yet. Hell, the man himself just pulled out and re-inserted the cable without an issue so what’s up? Even if it turned into a full scale problem, I can say “nice words” about the matter at hand because I know it’ll be handled. There’s nothing wrong with being a voice of reason or reassurance about the issue while others choose to panic, especially considering it’s remediable. It’s a new product and like many others, it’s not immune to unforeseen obstacles. If one chooses to be disgusted by that, it says a lot about their character. I’m not affiliated with EE… I just like their sound, products and professionalism. Accept it and move on.

In this hobby, due to the pricetag, the size of the community, we are closer to the manufacturers than any other industry I witnessed.
It is cool I admit, it makes us feel closer to the brand. However, it has a negative side: it adds emotion to business.
The level of tolerance I see for products that are that expensive compared to entry level is very high. And by being so understanding and nice, sometime we are not helping the brands to step up.

For me, the delay for the launch has not been handled properly. If I would do the same in my job, It will be considered unprofessional. If I announce a date, accept preorder without securing the full chain, then I badly failed.
Same with quality control. Sometimes we are too tolerant with brands (I have another brand in mind that keep the forum busy in another thread right now)
As I said, I did not worry to see 1-2 failures, it happens. But the explanation from EE gave me bigger worries. And as customers (cause... that's what we are) we need to stand together and be very careful.
If I compare to other luxury services or goods, at such high price, I expect perfect. I recognize the customer support we receive is excellent most of the time by most brands and stores and it helps. But it is only fair to be demanding regarding the initial purchase experience.

I probably don't represent the majority here, but for me, the full purchase experience matters, not only the SQ.

Again, I hope we will see more happy users and sound review soon, but I still feel bad for the people who will go through such bad experience.

 

[olddude]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why Raven is more fragile than other IEMs you produce? I have a pair of your Evos, and they’re seemingly built like tanks, while Raven seems to require kid gloves.

Are you using different printers? A new curing process? Different print settings? I know when 3d printing with resin, a lot of minute details can effect the material properties of the final product.

Seems to me that was answered in his statement.

"Addressing another aspect that has come to the forefront: the shell thickness of our products, whether UIEM or CIEM, has maintained consistent wall tolerances over the past 9 years. This design decision, rooted deeply in our commitment to unparalleled acoustics, has been a constant since our inception. Our choice of material is the medical-grade DREVE resin, which we import from Germany. Its quality and durability, when treated with care, have been proven time and again, with countless musicians on global tours vouching for its reliability. However, it's essential to understand that while resilient, they are not invincible. They aren't designed to withstand extreme forces or accidental drops; undue stress can lead to breakages. We've delved into experimenting with thicker tolerances during various R&D phases over the years. But our unwavering commitment to sound fidelity has always guided us to a balanced midpoint, a design that marries sound precision with structure, albeit necessitating more meticulous handling."

 

[zoidbb]

Seems to me that was answered in his statement.

"Addressing another aspect that has come to the forefront: the shell thickness of our products, whether UIEM or CIEM, has maintained consistent wall tolerances over the past 9 years. This design decision, rooted deeply in our commitment to unparalleled acoustics, has been a constant since our inception. Our choice of material is the medical-grade DREVE resin, which we import from Germany. Its quality and durability, when treated with care, have been proven time and again, with countless musicians on global tours vouching for its reliability. However, it's essential to understand that while resilient, they are not invincible. They aren't designed to withstand extreme forces or accidental drops; undue stress can lead to breakages. We've delved into experimenting with thicker tolerances during various R&D phases over the years. But our unwavering commitment to sound fidelity has always guided us to a balanced midpoint, a design that marries sound precision with structure, albeit necessitating more meticulous handling."

That's not an answer at all. There appears to be a demonstrable difference in fragility between their other offerings with similar wall thicknesses, and the Raven model -- even necessitating a special video to demonstrate the recommended method of removing a cable. Given that this hasn't been necessary in the past, and we've had several people experience this failure within the first few deliveries, it makes sense to ask /why/ Raven is impacted when others are not, particularly if the wall thickness and material are consistent with other designs.

Personally, having some pretty deep experience in the past with manufacturing items from multiple materials, can't help but wonder if there's a problem with the faceplates caused fractures in the resin shell due to changes in temperature. Looking at the design, I don't believe there is sufficient room between the faceplate and the resin to allow for the difference in the coefficient of thermal expansion, or the differences in the rate of temperature change.

Past IEMs didn't make use of metal as the "cap" of the IEM like Raven does.

But that's just my take from being an engineer, and looking at failures and design.

 

[CL14715]

In this hobby, due to the pricetag, the size of the community, we are closer to the manufacturers than any other industry I witnessed.
It is cool I admit, it makes us feel closer to the brand. However, it has a negative side: it adds emotion to business.
The level of tolerance I see for products that are that expensive compared to entry level is very high. And by being so understanding and nice, sometime we are not helping the brands to step up.

For me, the delay for the launch has not been handled properly. If I would do the same in my job, It will be considered unprofessional. If I announce a date, accept preorder without securing the full chain, then I badly failed.
Same with quality control. Sometimes we are too tolerant with brands (I have another brand in mind that keep the forum busy in another thread right now)
As I said, I did not worry to see 1-2 failures, it happens. But the explanation from EE gave me bigger worries. And as customers (cause... that's what we are) we need to stand together and be very careful.
If I compare to other luxury services or goods, at such high price, I expect perfect. I recognize the customer support we receive is excellent most of the time by most brands and stores and it helps. But it is only fair to be demanding regarding the initial purchase experience.

I probably don't represent the majority here, but for me, the full purchase experience matters, not only the SQ.

Again, I hope we will see more happy users and sound review soon, but I still feel bad for the people who will go through such bad experience.

Look, at the end of the day I’d never tell you how to feel about your experience or feelings about your dollar attached to a product or service. Ironically there’s no emotional attachment to EE for me and I’ve actually helped the community by offering hard truths when my opinion was asked for by EE. I’m just a data point and encourage as many people as possible to get involved in that regard. At the end of the day we all benefit from airtight products. That being said, I can defend myself against falsehoods that are easily verifiable without being deemed a paid shill. Trust me I wish I was, so does my bank account.

Ultimately, I wholeheartedly agree and feel bad for those who have had bad experiences. I haven’t shamed or criticized them, I empathize with them. I know they will be taken care of but that doesn’t make the time being any more relieving when their money is tied up. As a fan of EE, as with any other brand I enjoy in any market, I like to see them succeed. They all devote so much time and energy to bringing these things to fruition. Anything that hinders that disappoints me just as much as the next person. I guess I just approach it with more optimism.

 

[Kiats]

Not anymore so than doing it yourself, and if the socket fails during manufacture then I imagine the unit doesn't get shipped.

Fair enough. Tho looking at what has happened thus far with some of the early releases, it remains to be seen if there will rigorous QC before they are released into the hands of customers.

 

[MistahBungle]

Some folks should probably get a room or something...

 

[hahachah27]

I probably don't represent the majority here, but for me, the full purchase experience matters, not only the SQ.

totally agree with this, an important factor that makes a brand last. would probably sit back on Raven for a while first.