[Damz87]

So that 4-5khz bump is what some folks are bothered by, I'm assuming Crin’s was straight out of the box, and as noted above there's no measuring bone conduction (that I'm aware of). @gLer I wasn't able to listen to those tracks (I will later tonight), was it simply overload distortion?

I highly doubt burn in will affect how it’s measured, so being “straight out the box” shouldn’t make a difference. I stand to be corrected though if someone can show a graph of burned in vs fresh.

Graphing an IEM with a BCD is what I’d be interested to know more about. I wonder whether it affects a graph if the BCD is full-range or only if it’s covering a certain part of the FR.

 

[CL14715]

I highly doubt burn in will affect how it’s measured, so being “straight out the box” shouldn’t make a difference. I stand to be corrected though if someone can show a graph of burned in vs fresh.

Graphing an IEM with a BCD is what I’d be interested to know more about. I wonder whether it affects a graph if the BCD is full-range or only if it’s covering a certain part of the FR.

I had EE graph mine with their rig which is beyond what most independent graphing folks can reasonably afford. I don’t know if it was normalized or smoothed but I don’t recall seeing the same treble dive that’s depicted in most available graphs. I suspect the more expensive equipment has a much higher sensitivity.

 

[Ojisan]

One thing I've never managed to reconcile is the correlation between resolution and harshness. There's a case to be made that an IEM's technical ability can reveal a track's shortcomings. I've heard errors in fading (or pop-ins) and automation on some tracks (of mine and others) that were revealed to me by more detailed IEMs. As I mentioned on my ODIN review, that IEM's spatial capabilities will cause compressed tracks to sound small and mushed-in, and allow dynamic ones to feel vast and open. When it comes to harshness, though, I've never come across on IEM that's made a track sound sharp or fatiguing, simply because of how resolving it is. It always has to do with treble (or higher-higher-midrange) tuning; a tonal matter, rather than a technical one.

This is a great point! I think we need to carefully separate the resolution and harshness. In my view, the harshness comes from...

Spoiler: read on my blurb about "harshness" if interested...

the time-domain characteristics of reproducing sharp transients. Think square wave which can be approximated by a sum of odd harmonics. If the IEM is capable of reproducing all the odd harmonics, then you will get a really harsh square wave like the noise you hear from modems and digital noise. In reality, as evident from the graphs, IEMs have peaks and troughs which change the shape of the square wave (if present in recordings) such that the corners get rounded (or exhibit sharper ringing, in a worse case). So this harshness comes from collective frequency domain characteristics, hence difficult to spot. It's not because of single frequency peaks.

On topic, EVO arrived today and I'm actually enjoying it!

As a background, this is my first EE purchase. Never heard LX. Only auditioned Odin from @CL14715. I don't consider myself bass-head and I was always afraid of the so-called "L" shaped sound... But Odin actually sounded quite good and balanced which pushed me to try the Evo. Odin was a little bit too dry and brittle throughout the spectrum for me.

Fast forward to today, Evo arrived. Put on my own Final-E (assuming that is what EE intended) and uh ok. Some upper mid forwardness (pedal steel guitar in country music) and plasticy timbre. I prefer a wide bore tips with this. Put on the Spiral dots and now the leading edge is slightly smoother, better balance and spaciousness overall.



Now the cable... my impression is that this is basically a nicer appointment PW No.5. It doesn't extend like the 1960/Orphy and it has a tendency to make the upper mids brittle, in my experience. Switched out to Orphy and ohhh my goodness! I have a much better filled mid-bass to low-mids, smooth extension on both ends, very musical!

Compared to MEST, I think this BCD has a more obvious effect which helps to image the sound outside of your head. I use Aeropex BCD headsets for work and exercise so I'm very familiar with the BCD effect. This BCD seems to kick in even at low volume. Must have been tough to balance BCD, BAs, and DD.

Still very early. Got other cables/tips/DAP to try. I think this might make a nice compliment to the bird!

 

[jwilliamhurst]

I had EE graph mine with their rig which is beyond what most independent graphing folks can reasonably afford. I don’t know if it was normalized or smoothed but I don’t recall seeing the same treble dive that’s depicted in most available graphs. I suspect the more expensive equipment has a much higher sensitivity.

Much like the Fusang graph. Shows roll off in the “air” portion of the FR..but this monitor is full of air! So the BCD has to be taken into consideration, in my very humble opinion.

 

[Auricon]

It’s a bit unfortunate that I’m unable to experience the EVO as it was intended with the Genesis cable. 2 hours with EVO + Aeneid, I’m not sure what to make of it - great details, layering though bass isn’t quite what I had expected from earlier previews and I’m chalking it up to the synergy. With Socrates, it’s better where there’s more sub-bass, despite soundstage sounding smaller but details are still there.

Listening to Massive Attack’s “Angel - remaster” starting at 00:13 and noticeable through 01:12 where vocals start, the 2nd rhythmic deep bass beats starts but at the end of every beat - it’s ends with metallic-like hollow echo. It becomes more noticeable again at 5:44 and 06:00 until end. Hard to describe it sounds almost like hitting a hollow wooden block - it’s a bit disconcerting and shows on both the Socrates and Aeneid and all ear tips from Final E, Azla SendaEarFits short and Xelastics.

Tested the track on both UM MEST Mk2 and Traillii using the same cables and eartips - the bass beat ends clean and defined. Listened to the identical version on Apple Music and local FLAC off microSD off 3MAX. Granted it’s a single track of tens of thousands but bummed since it’s in the top 5 of my playlist.

From no cable to bass… sigh…

 

[metaljem77]

It’s a bit unfortunate that I’m unable to experience the EVO as it was intended with the Genesis cable. 2 hours with EVO + Aeneid, I’m not sure what to make of it - great details, layering though bass isn’t quite what I had expected from earlier previews and I’m chalking it up to the synergy. Socrates it’s better where there’s more bass, soundstage smaller and details are still there.

Listening to Massive Attack’s “Angel - remaster” starting at 00:13 and noticeable through 01:12 where vocals start, the 2nd rhythmic deep bass beats starts but at the end of every beat - it’s ends with metallic-like hollow echo. It becomes more noticeable again at 5:44 and 06:00 until end. Hard to describe it sounds almost like hitting a hollow wooden block - it’s a bit disconcerting and shows on both the Socrates and Aeneid and all ear tips from Final E, Azla SendaEarFits short and Xelastics.

Tested the track on both UM MEST Mk2 and Traillii using the same cables and eartips - the bass beat ends clean and defined. Listened to the identical version on Apple Music and local FLAC off microSD off 3MAX.

From no cable to bass… sigh…

Hmm oh dear. I don’t listen to Massive Attack but went to hear those portions that you’ve indicated. I cannot imagine if this would be what I’m hearing - do you think this can be amelierioated or eliminated with (more) burn in? I’ll be receiving EVO next week and will test out with metal/hard rock music.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

I highly doubt burn in will affect how it’s measured, so being “straight out the box” shouldn’t make a difference. I stand to be corrected though if someone can show a graph of burned in vs fresh.

Graphing an IEM with a BCD is what I’d be interested to know more about. I wonder whether it affects a graph if the BCD is full-range or only if it’s covering a certain part of the FR.

Pretty sure it's full range, @Jack Vang is that the case?

 

[Wildcatsare1]

This is a great point! I think we need to carefully separate the resolution and harshness. In my view, the harshness comes from...

Spoiler: read on my blurb about "harshness" if interested...

the time-domain characteristics of reproducing sharp transients. Think square wave which can be approximated by a sum of odd harmonics. If the IEM is capable of reproducing all the odd harmonics, then you will get a really harsh square wave like the noise you hear from modems and digital noise. In reality, as evident from the graphs, IEMs have peaks and troughs which change the shape of the square wave (if present in recordings) such that the corners get rounded (or exhibit sharper ringing, in a worse case). So this harshness comes from collective frequency domain characteristics, hence difficult to spot. It's not because of single frequency peaks.

On topic, EVO arrived today and I'm actually enjoying it!



As a background, this is my first EE purchase. Never heard LX. Only auditioned Odin from @CL14715. I don't consider myself bass-head and I was always afraid of the so-called "L" shaped sound... But Odin actually sounded quite good and balanced which pushed me to try the Evo. Odin was a little bit too dry and brittle throughout the spectrum for me.

Fast forward to today, Evo arrived. Put on my own Final-E (assuming that is what EE intended) and uh ok. Some upper mid forwardness (pedal steel guitar in country music) and plasticy timbre. I prefer a wide bore tips with this. Put on the Spiral dots and now the leading edge is slightly smoother, better balance and spaciousness overall.



Now the cable... my impression is that this is basically a nicer appointment PW No.5. It doesn't extend like the 1960/Orphy and it has a tendency to make the upper mids brittle, in my experience. Switched out to Orphy and ohhh my goodness! I have a much better filled mid-bass to low-mids, smooth extension on both ends, very musical!

Compared to MEST, I think this BCD has a more obvious effect which helps to image the sound outside of your head. I use Aeropex BCD headsets for work and exercise so I'm very familiar with the BCD effect. This BCD seems to kick in even at low volume. Must have been tough to balance BCD, BAs, and DD.

Still very early. Got other cables/tips/DAP to try. I think this might make a nice compliment to the bird!

The Genisis sounds much better than the No.5 8-wire, the latter sounded muted and dull. The Stormbreaker is nice, received a Penon Totem, and it's the first of the multiple cables I've tried I liked equally, perhaps better after more listening, too the Genisis.

 

[tawmizzzz]

This is a great point! I think we need to carefully separate the resolution and harshness. In my view, the harshness comes from...

Spoiler: read on my blurb about "harshness" if interested...

the time-domain characteristics of reproducing sharp transients. Think square wave which can be approximated by a sum of odd harmonics. If the IEM is capable of reproducing all the odd harmonics, then you will get a really harsh square wave like the noise you hear from modems and digital noise. In reality, as evident from the graphs, IEMs have peaks and troughs which change the shape of the square wave (if present in recordings) such that the corners get rounded (or exhibit sharper ringing, in a worse case). So this harshness comes from collective frequency domain characteristics, hence difficult to spot. It's not because of single frequency peaks.

On topic, EVO arrived today and I'm actually enjoying it!



As a background, this is my first EE purchase. Never heard LX. Only auditioned Odin from @CL14715. I don't consider myself bass-head and I was always afraid of the so-called "L" shaped sound... But Odin actually sounded quite good and balanced which pushed me to try the Evo. Odin was a little bit too dry and brittle throughout the spectrum for me.

Fast forward to today, Evo arrived. Put on my own Final-E (assuming that is what EE intended) and uh ok. Some upper mid forwardness (pedal steel guitar in country music) and plasticy timbre. I prefer a wide bore tips with this. Put on the Spiral dots and now the leading edge is slightly smoother, better balance and spaciousness overall.



Now the cable... my impression is that this is basically a nicer appointment PW No.5. It doesn't extend like the 1960/Orphy and it has a tendency to make the upper mids brittle, in my experience. Switched out to Orphy and ohhh my goodness! I have a much better filled mid-bass to low-mids, smooth extension on both ends, very musical!

Compared to MEST, I think this BCD has a more obvious effect which helps to image the sound outside of your head. I use Aeropex BCD headsets for work and exercise so I'm very familiar with the BCD effect. This BCD seems to kick in even at low volume. Must have been tough to balance BCD, BAs, and DD.

Still very early. Got other cables/tips/DAP to try. I think this might make a nice compliment to the bird!

Glad to hear you also remedied the upper mids brittleness with a cable swap. Listening with 4w1960 with CP155 tips and SP2000 and the bass is just unreal with a fun width and height soundstage. Interesting subtle BCD buffer. Vocals are detailed albeit a subtle L-shape, which is exactly what I hoped for. Very fun sound.

For some reason CP155 are the only tips (I’ve tried 10+) that really gets the deep insertion to smooth the sound while retaining most technicalities. Tames upper mids. The only problem is that CP155 with the deeper insertion has some shell irritation on my right ear so will need to see how that plays out.

I also have the Liquid Links Venom cable coming tomorrow to demo (the impressive stock cable from Elysian X). Heard great things and will compare against stock/1960/a 8 wire silver cable I have.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

It’s a bit unfortunate that I’m unable to experience the EVO as it was intended with the Genesis cable. 2 hours with EVO + Aeneid, I’m not sure what to make of it - great details, layering though bass isn’t quite what I had expected from earlier previews and I’m chalking it up to the synergy. Socrates it’s better where there’s more bass, soundstage smaller and details are still there.

Listening to Massive Attack’s “Angel - remaster” starting at 00:13 and noticeable through 01:12 where vocals start, the 2nd rhythmic deep bass beats starts but at the end of every beat - it’s ends with metallic-like hollow echo. It becomes more noticeable again at 5:44 and 06:00 until end. Hard to describe it sounds almost like hitting a hollow wooden block - it’s a bit disconcerting and shows on both the Socrates and Aeneid and all ear tips from Final E, Azla SendaEarFits short and Xelastics.

Tested the track on both UM MEST Mk2 and Traillii using the same cables and eartips - the bass beat ends clean and defined. Listened to the identical version on Apple Music and local FLAC off microSD off 3MAX.

From no cable to bass… sigh…

It sounds odd, but dial the position tilting back a bit, maximizing concha and helix contact. On the Aeneid, I need to get a pin repaired on mine, but I'm liking the Penon Totem, an silver, gold, palladium alloy as well.

 

[Sifo]

You saying the Totem is better than the 1960s specifically for the EVO or in general? Cuz "does everything the 1960s does but is superior in a couple of ways" sounds too good to be true

 

[tawmizzzz]

Listening to Massive Attack’s “Angel - remaster” starting at 00:13 and noticeable through 01:12 where vocals start, the 2nd rhythmic deep bass beats starts but at the end of every beat - it’s ends with metallic-like hollow echo. It becomes more noticeable again at 5:44 and 06:00 until end. Hard to describe it sounds almost like hitting a hollow wooden block - it’s a bit disconcerting and shows on both the Socrates and Aeneid and all ear tips from Final E, Azla SendaEarFits short and Xelastics.

Regarding the bass, see if CP155s help with the deep insertion.

“Angel” is probably my #1 track for subbass. Just tested it and I also hear that hollow echo effect, like a 3D “thump”, which I NEVER heard before across any IEM. I honestly think that could be an extreme case of the BCD working some unique voodoo? Echo is one of the potential effects of the W10 I imagine. Less noticeable as the subbass starts ramping up. Not sure if I prefer it or not but weird lol

 

[Wildcatsare1]

You saying the Totem is better than the 1960s specifically for the EVO or in general? Cuz "does everything the 1960s does but is superior in a couple of ways" sounds too good to be true

I haven't heard the four-wire 1960s, but with the EVO I do prefer the Totem, and the Genisis to the 60s two-wire, better bass, retained dynamics, tone, timbre.

 

[riverground]

Lol, I thought Crinacle of all people would have the foresight to realize that his GRAS measurement rig is not the right tool to measure a BCD IEM, unless EE says otherwise. Maybe he'll mention this in his review though, looking forward to that.

It would be very cool to see an Empire Ears in-house FR graph of the EVO using proper measuring equipment to accurately capture the BCD effects. Specifically, how this compares to the air conduction graphs.

The graphs are probably not that big of a deal at the end of the day, but for the few people over-obsessed with accuracy and precision it is an interesting experiment,

Also appreciating the varied reception to the EVO, it helps paint a more honest picture of the EVO experience

I don’t think a lot of the “well-known” people that measure actually has the equipment to do so.

I do hope to see if Jude’s measurement rig could do it. If only I had the budget I would love to have the same equipment as Jude

But yeah, just take the measurements you see with a huge grain of Himalayan salt.

We really still have no idea how the BCD actually works but the measurements should indicate as a reference of how an IEM is tuned.

And as the graph does show, even without these measurements earlier, the upper-mids do seem to be more elevated compared to the LX and even slightly over the LXSE. We gotta also consider the fact that the EVO has the “least” amount of bass energy among the 3. So I can see why the upper-mids would be heard the way it is. Also, the reason why people didn’t have much problems with the LXSE even though it also had quite a bit more upper-mids and somewhat “lesser” bass presence than the LX, it comes down to the treble. The LXSE definitely shows more treble energy than both the LX and EVO, thus evens the overall presentation.

I do wish I’d have access to the LXSE to fully compare the three Legends and add in the Odin to the mix just to see how much of the Odin DNA is in that upper-mids since I absolutely love the Odin’s upper-mids maybe only second to the Wraith’s.

I have tried the LX again not too long ago and while I can see and hear its charms, it just definitely wasn’t for me. Tho the LXSE is definitely closer to my cup of tea (just basing it on the graphs as reference compared to the LX), with the impressions so far, I believe the EVO just might be another EE favourite of mine.

 

[Auricon]

Regarding the bass, see if CP155s help with the deep insertion.

“Angel” is probably my #1 track for subbass. Just tested it and I also hear that hollow echo effect, like a 3D “thump”, which I NEVER heard before across any IEM. I honestly think that could be an extreme case of the BCD working some unique voodoo? Echo is one of the potential effects of the W10 I imagine. Less noticeable as the subbass starts ramping up. Not sure if I prefer it or not but weird lol

Thank you for confirming, you captured exactly what was going through my head while listening. First impression was this doesn’t sound right, is it a defect? Not sure if I like it.

Have I’ve been listening to “Angel” wrong for decades or is EVO providing something different that I haven’t heard before, especially when you’ve listened to a track for so many many years and “know it” intimately - beat by beat - Like making love in the dark, turning on the lights to find out that the person you’re in bed with isn’t your partner of all these years, LOL. Ugh conflicted…