[gLer]

Well, my point is that...

...would still be true, no?

Even if you took resolution out of the equation, you'd still run into the same issue. Similarly, if an IEM's FR played nicely with the track, then adding or reducing resolution wouldn't change that at all. So, it's ultimately a matter of FR, rather than one of technique. To your point that resolution worsens that clash - say, it plays a 10% role - there could be some merit to it. But, then, to me, you wouldn't attack and reduce the resolution to fix that issue, would you? You'd still reduce the offending frequency. So, again, it's a tonal matter to me.

Yep, I take your point. I think if a track is inherently harsh, it's harsh, and if that harshness coincides with a FR emphasised by the IEM, even more so. I don't think EVO is inherently harsh though, but rather unforgiving.

 

[Skullar]

Hmm. 7 pages of upper mid discussion.

You know (without dragging anyone in particular into this comment) i find it a bit interesting.

The was reoccurring mention of how graphs are not everything and stuff.
Then Evo graph releases and it clearly shows that upper mids are at a level of Odin with more emphasis to lower treble. It just clearly is boosted to
Clearly this must trigger red lights, before pressing purchase button for people sensitive to upper mids. So you would already start thinking about return policies or how much loss you will end up which when selling it.

Its good that things like that are discussed in here. But i really hope it does not come in as surprise to owner when they get disappointed by Evos tuning.

Just my take here:

If i saw an iem comming out and graph displayed. If i see clear midbass emphasis and subbass roll off. Or a recess in upper mids. It would just bounce me from purchase no matter how much praised that iem is.
I would try to audition it for sure. But would never commit to buy if graph is off. Be there a BC driver or not.

Spit on graphs as much as you want. You just cant ignore some obvious readings on them.

Yes there are tolerances and stuff and some thing will be impossible to judge and will not be reliable enough to judge tuning. But in Evo tuning i would never expect a balance out bass and upper mids would i.


Not implying that people made stupid decisions in their purchases. As pre-orders are most of the time a gamble one way or another. And graphs dont surface quick enough after announcements, or if they do there is no way comparing them to something you know, so there are other factors in purchase decisions.

In fact i have 2 preorders now that i have not got a clue about apart of driver set up and trust in manufacturers tuning habits lol.

What i am trying to say is, graphs do tell a lot as long as you know how to read them and work out what you like to see in them.

 

[Deezel177]

Hmm. 7 pages of upper mid discussion.

You know (without dragging anyone in particular into this comment) i find it a bit interesting.

The was reoccurring mention of how graphs are not everything and stuff.
Then Evo graph releases and it clearly shows that upper mids are at a level of Odin with more emphasis to lower treble. It just clearly is boosted to
Clearly this must trigger red lights, before pressing purchase button for people sensitive to upper mids. So you would already start thinking about return policies or how much loss you will end up which when selling it.

Its good that things like that are discussed in here. But i really hope it does not come in as surprise to owner when they get disappointed by Evos tuning.

Just my take here:

If i saw an iem comming out and graph displayed. If i see clear midbass emphasis and subbass roll off. Or a recess in upper mids. It would just bounce me from purchase no matter how much praised that iem is.
I would try to audition it for sure. But would never commit to buy if graph is off. Be there a BC driver or not.

Spit on graphs as much as you want. You just cant ignore some obvious readings on them.

Yes there are tolerances and stuff and some thing will be impossible to judge and will not be reliable enough to judge tuning. But in Evo tuning i would never expect a balance out bass and upper mids would i.


Not implying that people made stupid decisions in their purchases. As pre-orders are most of the time a gamble one way or another. And graphs dont surface quick enough after announcements, or if they do there is no way comparing them to something you know, so there are other factors in purchase decisions.

In fact i have 2 preorders now that i have not got a clue about apart of driver set up and trust in manufacturers tuning habits lol.

What i am trying to say is, graphs do tell a lot as long as you know how to read them and work out what you like to see in them.

That's true, but it has to be balanced out by impressions as well. Here, we have a mix of the two, which is healthy. Whereas, the notion that graphs are "not everything" is typically used in the context where impressions are limited and graphs are all we have to go off of. In that case, I personally think you'd still kinda have to take them with a grain of salt until impressions start coming in.

 

[MatW]

Spit on graphs as much as you want. You just cant ignore some obvious readings on them.

Agreed. I did not buy the Evo because of the graph and my previous experience with the Odin. Oh, and because it costs more than 3k lol...

I was hoping for the upper mids to be compensated by the bass, but first reviews of folks who share my sensitivity for upper mids are confirming my fears. It may still be OK for me (unlikely, but possible), and the bass is awesome I'm sure. So I remain interested in giving it a try at some point, but this is definitely not a blind buy for me.

 

[metaljem77]

Having acclimatised, I don’t regret blind buying EVO. I’m growing increasingly fond of it, Genesis pairs with it quite wonderfully. Tried PlusSound’s copper+ which doesn’t pair with it too well. I’d prob want to keep my 1950s with my customised LX which has finally arrived, can’t wait to collect it!

 

[gLer]

Agreed. I did not buy the Evo because of the graph and my previous experience with the Odin. Oh, and because it costs more than 3k lol...

I was hoping for the upper mids to be compensated by the bass, but first reviews of folks who share my sensitivity for upper mids are confirming my fears. It may still be OK for me (unlikely, but possible), and the bass is awesome I'm sure. So I remain interested in giving it a try at some point, but this is definitely not a blind buy for me.

I personally don't EQ, but I wonder if anyone's tried to EQ down the upper-mids by 3-4dB to see what it does to the overall balance. I would think it's an easy enough thing to do, but maybe not? And EQing down is always preferable to EQing up. I'll be spending time this weekend listening specifically to well-recorded tracks to check the quality of the midrange drivers, because EQ is meaningless if the quality isn't there to begin with. (I've personally had no issues with mids/lower treble quality besides the random harsh track, but reading between the lines the people taking issue with EVO are doing so not so much because of emphasis but because of perceived quality - or lack thereof).

 

[gLer]

Having acclimatised, I don’t regret blind buying EVO. I’m growing increasingly fond of it, Genesis pairs with it quite wonderfully. Tried PlusSound’s copper+ which doesn’t pair with it too well. I’d prob want to keep my 1950s with my customised LX which has finally arrived, can’t wait to collect it!

Brain burn-in is just as important as actual burn-in for sure. Keen to get your thoughts on EVO vs EXT once you've acclimatised.

 

[aaf evo]

To me, EVO is revealing grain/hardness in tracks where, with my other IEMs, that FR range has either been recessed, de-emphasised, or just plain less resolving. Busy testing one of five different versions of Pink Floyd's 'Time' and the electric guitar solo (3:12 - 4:09) definitely sounds more forward and 'harder/grainier' on EVO than it does on LX or IE 900 (with the IE 900 being partocularly 'light' in this FR, which was a conscious tuning choice). That the EVO is more resolving than both IEMs means I'm also hearing every grain compared to the 'smoothed over' rendition I'm getting with the other IEMs. Now, switch to another Pink Floyd classic, 'Hey You' from The Wall, and a very similar guitar solo sounds ever so smooth and resolving and pitch-perfect on EVO, with plenty of crunch and edge but no grain or hardness, depsite the forwardness...with the caveat here that The Wall recording is far superior to all five versions (including the DSD) of Dark Side. Which tells me recording quality is key. Hence high resolution + upper-mid emphasis + poor/compressed recording = not ideal EVO fodder.

On these particular tracks (esp Island) it's not so much distortion as it is compression with over-emphasised upper-mid/lower-treble energy burned in to the track (at least that's how I hear it).

Ugh I almost didn’t respond to this because I don’t feel like being attacked again but here goes. These are the two IEMs I am comparing:



I am not taking Evo and comparing it to IEMs with less resolution or less focus in the frequencies where I am having issues. X overall is more resolving in the upper mids and treble and has less bass to “cushion” it , but there is zero grain whatsoever.

The same song “Island” and other songs from ILLENIUM’s albums are used by @Precogvision in some of his tests for IEMs and I don’t think once has anyone told him his music selections are compressed or harsh, so it’s interesting to see the tracks be at fault here rather than maybe perhaps the quality of reproduction of this FR from said IEM may actually be the culprit here.

Again, I am not trying to bash. I am trying to figure out why I am hearing it the way I am. Maybe different types of drivers at play that I am more or less sensitive to? I have no idea.

 

[gLer]

Ugh I almost didn’t respond to this because I don’t feel like being attacked again but here goes. These are the two IEMs I am comparing:



I am not taking Evo and comparing it to IEMs with less resolution or less focus in the frequencies where I am having issues. X overall is more resolving in the upper mids and treble and has less bass to “cushion” it , but there is zero grain whatsoever.

The same song “Island” and other songs from ILLENIUM’s albums are used by @Precogvision in some of his tests for IEMs and I don’t think once has anyone told him his music selections are compressed or harsh, so it’s interesting to see the tracks be at fault here rather than maybe perhaps the quality of reproduction of this FR from said IEM may actually be the culprit here.

Again, I am not trying to bash. I am trying to figure out why I am hearing it the way I am. Maybe different types of drivers at play that I am more or less sensitive to? I have no idea.

Fair points, and I was only comparing to my IEMs, which are less resolving/emphasised. I would also very much like to know why you perceive the differences you do with two similarly tuned IEMs. If it proves to be a deficiency or imbance in the EVO's tuning or presentation, or an issue with its drivers, so be it. It is what it is. FWIW I hear the same harshensss in those tracks, but with all my IEMs, not just EVO.

 

[Frankie D]

This FR tab seems quite a bit off. You can kill me but i have never seen 700hz being called upper mids lol.

These are the fundamental frequencies of each range. Obviously the overtones go up to 20,000hz and above, and will affect our perception of the fundamental, but the fundamentals are much lower than you hear quoted in head-fi. Below is another chart showing the range of a piano and where other instruments land within its range (you can create electronic music with tones beyond this range as well as a pipe organ).

For reference, C4 is middle C. So it looks like the previous chart is not really off. Search on it. Many of the charts are a bit different, but all are fairly close to each other.

 

[CL14715]

Ugh I almost didn’t respond to this because I don’t feel like being attacked again but here goes. These are the two IEMs I am comparing:



I am not taking Evo and comparing it to IEMs with less resolution or less focus in the frequencies where I am having issues. X overall is more resolving in the upper mids and treble and has less bass to “cushion” it , but there is zero grain whatsoever.

The same song “Island” and other songs from ILLENIUM’s albums are used by @Precogvision in some of his tests for IEMs and I don’t think once has anyone told him his music selections are compressed or harsh, so it’s interesting to see the tracks be at fault here rather than maybe perhaps the quality of reproduction of this FR from said IEM may actually be the culprit here.

Again, I am not trying to bash. I am trying to figure out why I am hearing it the way I am. Maybe different types of drivers at play that I am more or less sensitive to? I have no idea.

Well I never thought it was because EDM was harsh or whatever else. I would definitely not discount it as a genre to tune for considering it’s probably the most popular music globally. I was saying maybe there is something that needs to be taken into account when tuning an IEM with EDM In mind. Some guys like deadmau5 have access to Dolby atmos for mastering so I know his stuff isn’t harsh or poorly produced which goes for others as well. I’m almost thinking it may be the hyper detailed frequencies they have going on clashing with a hyper detailed IEM like EVO. Maybe the X has something in the hardware choices that negates this or maybe there’s slight imperceivable blunting that ever so slightly smooths out whatever harshness may come in that region if it’s loaded with detail.

I’m just guessing cause it’s interesting.

 

[GiullianSN]

Hmm. 7 pages of upper mid discussion.

You know (without dragging anyone in particular into this comment) i find it a bit interesting.

The was reoccurring mention of how graphs are not everything and stuff.
Then Evo graph releases and it clearly shows that upper mids are at a level of Odin with more emphasis to lower treble. It just clearly is boosted to
Clearly this must trigger red lights, before pressing purchase button for people sensitive to upper mids. So you would already start thinking about return policies or how much loss you will end up which when selling it.

Its good that things like that are discussed in here. But i really hope it does not come in as surprise to owner when they get disappointed by Evos tuning.

Just my take here:

If i saw an iem comming out and graph displayed. If i see clear midbass emphasis and subbass roll off. Or a recess in upper mids. It would just bounce me from purchase no matter how much praised that iem is.
I would try to audition it for sure. But would never commit to buy if graph is off. Be there a BC driver or not.

Spit on graphs as much as you want. You just cant ignore some obvious readings on them.

Yes there are tolerances and stuff and some thing will be impossible to judge and will not be reliable enough to judge tuning. But in Evo tuning i would never expect a balance out bass and upper mids would i.


Not implying that people made stupid decisions in their purchases. As pre-orders are most of the time a gamble one way or another. And graphs dont surface quick enough after announcements, or if they do there is no way comparing them to something you know, so there are other factors in purchase decisions.

In fact i have 2 preorders now that i have not got a clue about apart of driver set up and trust in manufacturers tuning habits lol.

What i am trying to say is, graphs do tell a lot as long as you know how to read them and work out what you like to see in them.

Try to buy an Abyss Diana based on graphs.

But I agree, if no other reference is available and someone is comfortable enough to understand what to expect by looking at a graph (at least a rough idea), go for it. Don’t put lot’s of money in something your experience is telling that it has a big chance of not working. It’s setting up for failure.

 

[GiullianSN]

Well I never thought it was because EDM was harsh or whatever else. I would definitely not discount it as a genre to tune for considering it’s probably the most popular music globally. I was saying maybe there is something that needs to be taken into account when tuning an IEM with EDM In mind. Some guys like deadmau5 have access to Dolby atmos for mastering so I know his stuff isn’t harsh or poorly produced which goes for others as well. I’m almost thinking it may be the hyper detailed frequencies they have going on clashing with a hyper detailed IEM like EVO. Maybe the X has something in the hardware choices that negates this or maybe there’s slight imperceivable blunting that ever so slightly smooths out whatever harshness may come in that region if it’s loaded with detail.

I’m just guessing cause it’s interesting.

What would we say about Fineas and His sister? One the current biggest pop artists, but most of their songs are straight from a computer and recorded wherever they feel so.

I know a lot of people here still listen, like and even test gear with their songs.

 

[CL14715]

What would we say about Fineas and His sister? One the current biggest pop artists, but most of their songs are straight from a computer and recorded wherever they feel so.

I know a lot of people here still listen, like and even test gear with their songs.

Well you gotta know your stuff at some point also. I wouldn’t use an original Led Zeppelin recording to evaluate IEM’s because it sounds like it was recorded in an Olympus digital hand recorder.

I don’t think that’s the case here though.

 

[gLer]

What would we say about Fineas and His sister? One the current biggest pop artists, but most of their songs are straight from a computer and recorded wherever they feel so.

I know a lot of people here still listen, like and even test gear with their songs.

Billie Eilish albums are impeccably recorded and mastered, or at least that's how I hear them. They're also not chock-full of bright high-energy samples (not that there's anything wrong with that btw).

I’m almost thinking it may be the hyper detailed frequencies they have going on clashing with a hyper detailed IEM like EVO.

That's what I was thinking too, but would like to know the answer either way.