Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
May 8, 2018 at 2:29 AM Post #13,321 of 40,588
Well this was silly as it was an apples to oranges comparison to begin with but even more so because the OP asked for a loudspeaker with a similar sound signature (read: frequency response) not a loudspeaker with similar psychoacoustic characteristics. Response D2's are a good choice. They can be a bit peaky in their treble but so but their a fairly large at 17" high and even though they're front ported they like a minimum of 1.5ft from front wall to keep their bass tight. @Old_Snake it's best to first consider your environment and where your loudspeakers will be in relation to it when starting your research. How "near" will your field be? If positioned only at arms length away you really should be sticking with purpose built nearfield monitors or maybe you can roll the dice on audiophile loudspeakers but an audition is a must due to the constraints of placement in typical nearfield setups.

Passive or active monitors? You'll find most nearfield monitors are active and for good reason. The idea is to design amplifiers perfectly matched to the drivers they will be asked to drive; typically with dual mono designs, biamped with dedicated amplifiers for each driver, amplifiers matched to impedance curve of monitor, ultra short signal-path, class-d has come a long way too! The latest crop of active monitors by audiophile manufacturers such as KEF, Elac, Dynaudio and old favs like ATC have proved this philosophy works quite well.

Don't know your budget but it will have to be healthy if you chasing Zeus-R. Pete's right to recommend a loudspeaker in the $5K range. Great as D2's are I'd look at something utilizing newer technology. Genelec's "The Ones" series - even just the 8331 - would be as close to Zeus-R that I know of. They won't pound out the bass but neither do Zeus-R's tbh. There are slightly more mid-centric sounding Genelecs, but if A/B'd against 8331 it would be hard to take them home instead.

Back to the loudspeaker/earphone pyschoacoustic characteristics comparison for just a sec. @Deezel177 can speak to this more if he so chooses but music is recorded to give the illusion of a soundstage (read: performers in front of you). When listening via earphones we encounter two issues when trying to replicate this. The soundstage now becomes a headstage (so right of the bat not as production team intended), but most importantly, an earphone only allows us to hear one stereo channel per ear where with a 2ch setup each ear is subject to a pair of stereo channels and it's this glaring difference that has the greatest negative affect on an earphones ability to properly image like 2ch can. But hey, maybe you listen exclusively to binaural recordings @NaiveSound?? : ))

As someone who's spent hours upon hours listening to studio speakers in a well-treated environment, I can indeed confirm that they image better than in-ears can. Mixing and editing always feels superior to me in those environments, with one of the advantages being the ease with which a palpable literal stage is produced all around you. The only advantage an in-ear has is superior intimacy (which is only an advantage if it's what you're specifically looking for) and more sensitive left-right balance. I use IEMs to make sure my left and right channels are perfectly balanced, because left-right separation is slightly more apparent on them, but speakers always have the upper hand in immersion, layering, finer-detailing, effortlessness, etc. Due to the radiating nature of speakers, sound waves can mingle and surround you, but not in a way that degrades precision. In fact, it replicates the sounds you'd hear in venues and live studios, to produce a more life-like spatial representation of the track. I love IEMs with all my heart and I spend infinitely more time with them than I do with speakers, but I gotta give this one to the good 'ol two-channel speaker. :D

Like w900? :grin: I wasn't thinking about quality though.. Just like to have the frequency range as a reference for comparison even though its not 100% accurate most of the time.

Well, it's not really a matter of the frequency range's accuracy. Whether or not the numbers are sound, they ultimately tell you nothing about the IEM's signature or quality. Companies like Empire Ears probably produce IEMs that can easily go from around 20-40Hz low to 17-20kHz high. What's more important is the linearity of that extension and how it affects the IEM's stage, resolution, physicality, etc. In my experience, EE's latest line-ups all carry pretty great bass extension, but treble extension is understandably better on the higher-end models. They're all still beautifully clear, but staging and imaging isn't as pin-point precise because of this.
 
May 8, 2018 at 6:14 AM Post #13,322 of 40,588
Speakers > headphones > IEMs. Moreso for the gap between speakers and headphones.

You get speakers if you're truly aiming for true fidelity and are willing to invest in your room and the nitty gritty adjustments in acoustics. You get headphones if you don't wake your neighbours and want some semblance of privacy in a somewhat "plug and play" system that pretty much works once you have all of your components. You get IEMs if you don't want to be tethered to your desktop by inefficient, discrete-power-requiring transducers and value portability and isolation above all else.

A good speaker setup will sound miles better than any headphone setup. A well matched headphone setup will beat any portable IEM setup. And I'm saying this as an IEM guy.
 
May 8, 2018 at 6:42 AM Post #13,323 of 40,588
Speakers > headphones > IEMs. Moreso for the gap between speakers and headphones.

You get speakers if you're truly aiming for true fidelity and are willing to invest in your room and the nitty gritty adjustments in acoustics. You get headphones if you don't wake your neighbours and want some semblance of privacy in a somewhat "plug and play" system that pretty much works once you have all of your components. You get IEMs if you don't want to be tethered to your desktop by inefficient, discrete-power-requiring transducers and value portability and isolation above all else.

A good speaker setup will sound miles better than any headphone setup. A well matched headphone setup will beat any portable IEM setup. And I'm saying this as an IEM guy.

Absolutely sums up how I feel. However, I get why some people prefer iem sound to speakers. Iem probably sounds more intimate as the sound is directed straight into the ear drums. But a properly set up speaker system will have a much greater instrumental imaging due to the greater soundstage perceived by our ears.

But again, I prefer iem cause I do not want anyone to know that I am jamming to crappy songs :ksc75smile:
 
May 8, 2018 at 8:04 AM Post #13,324 of 40,588
@Ethan Groover @Jack Vang , so are you going ahead with a EE demo tour as mentioned sometime earlier or still just a thought ?

would be great for us EU weirdos to hear the new lineup
 
May 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM Post #13,325 of 40,588
I just wasn't wowed, impressed or smiling as I am on headphones and iems. , I guess it's cause my username that explains it for the simpletons

Again, please read what I posted about you not hearing a properly set up system. When you do, then you can make that comment if you still feel that way. Not even trying to argue, just saying that I don't know one person who feels that way who has heard a decent system set up correctly. Even Daniel agrees and he does this for a living. :). It's all good.

Well this was silly as it was an apples to oranges comparison to begin with but even more so because the OP asked for a loudspeaker with a similar sound signature (read: frequency response) not a loudspeaker with similar psychoacoustic characteristics. Response D2's are a good choice. They are ever-so-slightly peaky in their treble but so is Zeus-R. They are fairly large at 17" high for desktop use and even though they're front ported they like a minimum of 1.5ft from front wall to keep their bass tight. @Old_Snake it's best to first consider your environment and where your loudspeakers will be in relation to it when starting your research. How "near" will your field be? If positioned only at arms length away you really should be sticking with purpose built nearfield monitors or maybe you can roll the dice on audiophile loudspeakers but an audition is a must due to the constraints of placement in typical nearfield setups.

Passive or active monitors? You'll find most nearfield monitors are active and for good reason. The idea is to design amplifiers perfectly matched to the drivers they will be asked to drive; typically with dual mono designs, biamped with dedicated amplifiers for each driver, amplifiers matched to impedance curve of monitor, ultra short signal-path, class-d has come a long way too! The latest crop of active monitors by audiophile manufacturers such as KEF, Elac, Dynaudio and old favs like ATC have proved this philosophy works quite well.

Don't know your budget but it will have to be healthy if you chasing Zeus-R. Pete's right to recommend a loudspeaker in the $5K range. Great as D2's are I'd look at something utilizing newer technology. Genelec's "The Ones" series - even just the 8331 - would be as close to Zeus-R that I know of. They won't pound out the bass but neither do Zeus-R's tbh. There are slightly more mid-centric sounding Genelecs, but if A/B'd against 8331 it would be hard to take them home instead.

Back to the loudspeaker/earphone pyschoacoustic characteristics comparison for just a sec. @Deezel177 can speak to this more if he so chooses but music is recorded to give the illusion of a soundstage (read: performers in front of you). When listening via earphones we encounter two issues when trying to replicate this. The soundstage now becomes a headstage (so right of the bat not as production team intended), but most importantly, an earphone only allows us to hear one stereo channel per ear where with a 2ch setup each ear is subject to a pair of stereo channels and it's this glaring difference that has the greatest negative affect on an earphones ability to properly image like 2ch can. But hey, maybe you listen exclusively to binaural recordings @NaiveSound?? : ))

Yes, I too like an active speaker for monitors. Dynaudio makes a professional line that would give you what you want and they are powered. I would stay away from their wireless option though as you loose way too much sound regardless of their marketing. If you just want sound quality, go with the Proac's. If you are in the market for any of these, let me know where you live and I can help you find a great dealer if you don't have one. I know quite a few :wink:
 
May 8, 2018 at 12:00 PM Post #13,326 of 40,588
I was amazed by my brother in law 2 channel speakers with just an hour of listening time. I've been craving for it but they just cost too much. I'm just gonna stick with iems for now.

But... yeah, I think iems can't beat a proper set up 2 channel speakers just yet.
 
May 8, 2018 at 2:12 PM Post #13,327 of 40,588
I've been away from the thread for a week or two; crazy how life changes when the toddler starts walking. My listening sessions have gone from hours to seconds! Anyway, I digress. I posted up my Legend X review and it's probably pretty obvious how I feel about them. I should also mention that they caused me to sell three other pairs of IEMs because honestly, I don't know why I would listen to them over these!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/empire-ears-legend-x.22927/reviews

-Collin-
 
May 8, 2018 at 3:21 PM Post #13,328 of 40,588
I've been away from the thread for a week or two; crazy how life changes when the toddler starts walking. My listening sessions have gone from hours to seconds! Anyway, I digress. I posted up my Legend X review and it's probably pretty obvious how I feel about them. I should also mention that they caused me to sell three other pairs of IEMs because honestly, I don't know why I would listen to them over these!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/empire-ears-legend-x.22927/reviews

-Collin-

Awsome review! (and so true)... thanks for this :)
 
May 8, 2018 at 4:29 PM Post #13,330 of 40,588
Thank you, my friend! I see that you have the Legend X and are selling the Vega. That scenario sounds very familiar... :)

I like the Vega a lot but i simply don't need it anymore :)
 
May 8, 2018 at 5:04 PM Post #13,331 of 40,588
Great review BTW. Thanks for that.

I was amazed by my brother in law 2 channel speakers with just an hour of listening time. I've been craving for it but they just cost too much. I'm just gonna stick with iems for now.

But... yeah, I think iems can't beat a proper set up 2 channel speakers just yet.

As you know, when you are ready, PLEASE let me know. That goes for any of you who are going to buy anything in the 2 channel world. I would love to help you out. Been doing that for over 40 years now. I am close with most manufacturers and top dealers around the country (US) and have in's with many distributors in all parts of the world. :wink:. Just love giving back and I realize that not everyone likes what I like. There is something for everyone. Just like I'm learning about the IEM world and have Nic to mentor me, there are so many small companies that you guys don't know about in the 2 channel world. I'm trying my best to help bridge that gap a bit as I intro some of the manufactures to the IEM ones. I honestly feel that if all the IEM makers had better sources and DAC's that they would take their levels even higher. If any of you have the ability to run your IEM's with a top DAC/Streamer or server combo ($10,000 and up usd), I promise you that you will be SHOCKED at how good they can be. My Phantom's just scale so high


I just got another top IEM in and can't wait to play it on the Ayre DAC/Streamer. It should be a treat.
 
May 8, 2018 at 5:14 PM Post #13,332 of 40,588
I've been away from the thread for a week or two; crazy how life changes when the toddler starts walking. My listening sessions have gone from hours to seconds! Anyway, I digress. I posted up my Legend X review and it's probably pretty obvious how I feel about them. I should also mention that they caused me to sell three other pairs of IEMs because honestly, I don't know why I would listen to them over these!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/empire-ears-legend-x.22927/reviews

-Collin-

Cracking review, it perfectly sums these beauties up. I've read comments where people say that it feels like you're in the room and you can reach out and touch the instruments, I now totally get it...the music just comes alive with astounding texture and vibrancy. The 'wow' moments just keep on coming and long may they continue. Hands down the best purchase I've ever made!
 
May 8, 2018 at 5:20 PM Post #13,333 of 40,588
Cracking review, it perfectly sums these beauties up. I've read comments where people say that it feels like you're in the room and you can reach out and touch the instruments, I now totally get it...the music just comes alive with astounding texture and vibrancy. The 'wow' moments just keep on coming and long may they continue. Hands down the best purchase I've ever made!

I agree, and thank you! The bass somehow always reminds you that it's there waiting to strike, yet doesn't overpower the rest. These are a technical masterpiece, even with the emphasized bass.

Looking forward to the Legend XI, featuring triple dynamic drivers... Just kidding :)

-Collin-
 
May 8, 2018 at 5:25 PM Post #13,334 of 40,588
I agree, and thank you! The bass somehow always reminds you that it's there waiting to strike, yet doesn't overpower the rest. These are a technical masterpiece, even with the emphasized bass.

Looking forward to the Legend XI, featuring triple dynamic drivers... Just kidding :)

-Collin-

Triple DDs? Can you imagine that...the bass already goes deep and hits real hard. I think our brains would leak out of our ears hehe. Amazing how fast the bass is on the X for DDs.
 

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