[CL14715]

What kind of audiophile are you?!

I still don’t know

 

[rantng]

The first step is admitting you're an audiophile...

 

[Frankie D]

Well, let’s throw this scenario out there. You get your Raven love it to death, but don’t risk taking out the cable because the cable is good enough ok a year goes by your cable fails on you You go to remove it, and it shatters.. I highly suggest doing cable rolling in the beginning just to get it out-of-the-way while you’re still in a window

Agreed. That also goes with what I said “ Cable rolling is considered a normal procedure.”

 

[olddude]

Being VERY careful with delicate equipment is, or should be, normal procedure.

The first time I tried to remove the stock cable from my Zeus I was VERY concerned about cracking the shell. The pins were very tight and I KNEW the shells were acrylic.

 

[CL14715]

Agreed. That also goes with what I said “ Cable rolling is considered a normal procedure.”

Cable rolling is not a normal procedure in the industry. It's something done in the general consumer hobby, as a potential for achieving additional satisfaction.

Now, before everyone freaks out and grabs their pitchforks, hear me out... Yes, we should be able to cable roll Raven and I'm confident any issues will be rectified, but...

If you bought a BMW M3 and wanted to swap the turbo and tune for additional satisfaction, you effectively void that warranty... unless the shop involved offers their own. Any damage incurred after that is on you, no matter the cost. I think as audiophile consumers we should appreciate the fact that we can alter a product and still be covered under a warranty period. This goes for all IEM and headphone manufacturers, not just EE so stop salivating for you low-ball insult posts. (not you @Frankie D just anyone in general)

On one hand, I understand competition is healthy and we need to be brutally honest for industrial/customer prosperity but on the other, I think sometimes we lose perspective as consumers when these companies take such good care of us. The real world still exists and it's not always peachy keen.

 

[zoidbb]

Cable rolling is not a normal procedure in the industry. It's something done in the general consumer hobby, as a potential for achieving additional satisfaction.

Now, before everyone freaks out and grabs their pitchforks, hear me out... Yes, we should be able to cable roll Raven and I'm confident any issues will be rectified, but...

If you bought a BMW M3 and wanted to swap the turbo and tune for additional satisfaction, you effectively void that warranty... unless the shop involved offers their own. Any damage incurred after that is on you, no matter the cost. I think as audiophile consumers we should appreciate the fact that we can alter a product and still be covered under a warranty period. This goes for all IEM and headphone manufacturers, not just EE so stop salivating for you low-ball insult posts. (not you @Frankie D just anyone in general)

On one hand, I understand competition is healthy and we need to be brutally honest for industrial/customer prosperity but on the other, I think sometimes we lose perspective as consumers when these companies take such good care of us. The real world still exists and it's not always peachy keen.

Some of us have preferred cables, and don’t want to spent $$$ on a duplicate cable for every IEM. Thus we have to swap the preferred cable to whichever IEM we want to use.

 

[CL14715]

Some of us have preferred cables, and don’t want to spent $$$ on a duplicate cable for every IEM. Thus we have to swap the preferred cable to whichever IEM we want to use.

Correct, the same still applies though. For all the cables and IEM’s you want to use.

 

[stacey]

The way I see it is that this issue is overblown, and if it’s a defect Empire will eventually re-shell the IEM. Personally I wouldn’t be worried, but then again it’s a $3500 IEM.

 

[tjzurlaaa]

The way I see it is that this issue is overblown, and if it’s a defect Empire will eventually re-shell the IEM. Personally I wouldn’t be worried, but then again it’s a $3500 IEM.

Remember how nuts everyone went over kz budget iems… this is a little different

 

[CL14715]

The way I see it is that this issue is overblown, and if it’s a defect Empire will eventually re-shell the IEM. Personally I wouldn’t be worried, but then again it’s a $3500 IEM.

100% and I’m also glad for the fact that it’s $3,500 and not $5,000. Still a lot of money but a lot less than some of these recent releases.

Props to 64 Audio for staying moderately reasonable with their new one as well.

 

[rantng]

Being VERY careful with delicate equipment is, or should be, normal procedure.

The first time I tried to remove the stock cable from my Zeus I was VERY concerned about cracking the shell. The pins were very tight and I KNEW the shells were acrylic.

I think the issue is the 'delicate' part. Obviously they are resin shells, but that is the standard in the industry. With that said they are meant to be used and musicians are a lot less careful with their equipment than most audiophiles. IEMs are a tool of their trade and tools get used & abused. Granted they don't cable roll like audiophiles, but I imagine they put their IEMs through a lot more stress than the average audiophile. I think we need to keep in mind that audiophiles are not the main consumer of IEMs.

Jack has already stated the issue is being addressed though. If there are any issues moving forward then we may need to worry, but we'll just have to wait and see. I'm hoping by the time the regular Raven is released we'll all just be discussing how the Raven sounds.

 

[CL14715]

I think the issue is the 'delicate' part. Obviously they are resin shells, but that is the standard in the industry. With that said they are meant to be used and musicians are a lot less careful with their equipment than most audiophiles. IEMs are a tool of their trade and tools get used & abused. Granted they don't cable roll like audiophiles, but I imagine they put their IEMs through a lot more stress than the average audiophile. I think we need to keep in mind that audiophiles are not the main consumer of IEMs.

Jack has already stated the issue is being addressed though. If there are any issues moving forward then we may need to worry, but we'll just have to wait and see. I'm hoping by the time the regular Raven is released we'll all just be discussing how the Raven sounds.

Very valid point.

I also am really waiting to see if any customer who had an initial unit fail, had a replacement fail. That will be the true metric of concern. So far the only replacement customer I’ve seen hasn’t had the same issue.

 

[olddude]

Some musicians treat their equipment with respect. Some don't. Think of Keith Moon and Pete Townsend.

But most understand the limitations of their equipment. and if they break them it's part of the cost of doing business.

I was a photographer for 30 years, and while my Nikons and Hasselblads were built like tanks, they still had delicate mechanisms and lots of glass on the lenses. I treated them with due respect and only had two instances of equipment failure in that whole time. One was my fault (shooting nudes in the surf and I had a shutter lock up) and one was a piece of equipment simply wearing out. Oh, and a plugged-in 500w power pack for my strobes caught fire on a job once.

But plenty of people I knew dropped their camera or lenses, and plenty of them threw them around so much they failed.

Have respect for your equipment and it will last longer than if you don't.

 

[zoidbb]

Some musicians treat their equipment with respect. Some don't. Think of Keith Moon and Pete Townsend.

But most understand the limitations of their equipment. and if they break them it's part of the cost of doing business.

I was a photographer for 30 years, and while my Nikons and Hasselblads were built like tanks, they still had delicate mechanisms and lots of glass on the lenses. I treated them with due respect and only had two instances of equipment failure in that whole time. One was my fault (shooting nudes in the surf and I had a shutter lock up) and one was a piece of equipment simply wearing out. Oh, and a plugged-in 500w power pack for my strobes caught fire on a job once.

But plenty of people I knew dropped their camera or lenses, and plenty of them threw them around so much they failed.

Have respect for your equipment and it will last longer than if you don't.

It's not about respect, it's about the rigors of actual work vs leisure. To say it's a matter of "respect" is ridiculous and disrespectful.

Imagine if Nikon had published a video telling you to be follow a very strict process of lens removal to prevent a thin plastic ring from cracking on their lens mount. As a photographer, this would be ****ing absurd to deal with. We pay the likes of Nikon $$$ to provide well-engineered cameras built to withstand the rigors of the profession and hobby. The same is true of Empire Ears and IEMs.

Cable rolling, or even simply cable disconnection, is a matter of course for IEMs, and should never under any circumstances cause mechanical failure of the shell. The idea that the included cable and socket require more pull force to disconnect than what the shell is designed to handle is ****ing ridiculous. Stop making excuses for bad engineering, it only shows companies that they can charge more and more money and deliver less and less quality over time.

 

[spwood]

And I’m quite a risk taker, and not a prudent one at that… I’ve done plenty of blind buys but this is out of my comfort zone. But if future developments are promising, I will re-consider getting one…

I’m not defending the issue. I know some of these broke too easy as I have no reason to doubt anyone’s reports. I’m just saying, pulling hard enough to sever wires when it broke shows how tight the sockets are.

If you read the context of my reply to @haci, it was in regards to sockets being tight and questioning as to having units break using the wiggle technique. I literally replied that I did not know from the few I’ve seen. I singled one out because it’s obvious he didn’t wiggle it out if the wires severed when the unit failed. I’m not saying he violently yanked it and caused it. I’m saying he didn’t wiggle it out or the failure would’ve been less severe if so.

Don’t fall into the trap others set on here because I like EE. I’m a very logical and honest person first and foremost.

That guy who posted the photo of the Ravens with the severed wires was me. I have swapped out the cables on multiple IEMs before, including the 3 pair of EE IEMs that I own. I used normal pressure to try to remove the cables, and not more. While it’s true that I didn’t use the wiggling technique I never have done so before, and there were no instructions with the Ravens that said to do so. I have no opinion whether what happened was due to a problem unique to my pair of Ravens or a design flaw, but clearly something went wrong.

No doubt EE will make things right and eventually figure out what happened.