[Skullar]

If you recall, I described the EVO as a more balanced LX but still with a L shaped signature having Odin bass quality but tuned to the level of the LX. The graph shows the elevated bass. Rolled off treble makes it L Shaped and it appears that the balance I was hearing is due to elevated upper mids. I also mentioned in my A/B testing with Odin that I preferred Odin on genre that are treble focused like classical music.

I must admit that I didn't expect the treble to roll off at 6k. I would have thought that I would hear that.

That balancing is a bit of a worry. Bass and upper mids boost is in line and looks nice. But treble taking such a step back in relation to mids and bass is a bit worrying. Hope its not too dark..

 

[sorrick]

This is probably more of a sound science question, but I’d actually be curious to know how well it is understood what effect bone conduction drivers have on measurement gear. Based on how they work, it would not be surprising if their effect is either not fully captured through traditional measurement rigs or if they skew measurements somehow (at least at certain portions of the frequency range). While I know dummy heads are designed to mimic the head and ear anatomy’s affect on sound through air conduction, I don’t believe dummy heads are designed with the intention of conducting and measuring physical vibration the same way that it would resonate through tissue/cartilage/bone of the the ear/skull. Metal coupler rigs certainly are not.

 

[CL14715]

That balancing is a bit of a worry. Bass and upper mids boost is in line and looks nice. But treble taking such a step back in relation to mids and bass is a bit worrying. Hope its not too dark..

Fear not. Definitely is not dark

 

[Skullar]

Fear not. Definitely is not dark

More treble than LX OG? Better extensions?

 

[CL14715]

More treble than LX OG? Better extensions?

I wouldn’t say more like emphasized I’d say more as in more natural due to the better extension.

 

[FlowLikeWater]

This is probably more of a sound science question, but I’d actually be curious to know how well it is understood what effect bone conduction drivers have on measurement gear. Based on how they work, it would not be surprising if their effect is either not fully captured through traditional measurement rigs or if they skew measurements somehow (at least at certain portions of the frequency range). While I know dummy heads are designed to mimic the head and ear anatomy’s affect on sound through air conduction, I don’t believe dummy heads are designed with the intention of conducting and measuring physical vibration the same way that it would resonate through tissue/cartilage/bone of the the ear/skull. Metal coupler rigs certainly are not.

i'm quite interested in the science as well. it would be very foolish to draw any conclusions from EVO graphs without understanding the effect of bone conduction on the results from the specific measurement rig used.

None of the GRAS 43AG-7 component datasheets that I could find make any mention of bone conduction (these are the components Crinacle and Resolve appear to use: RA0402, KB5000, etc), so it is likely that these don't capture the effects properly.

only place I've seen bone conduction graphs are from.....UMmmmm.......that one other company, but I couldn't find info on their measurement rig.

wonder if EE has some specialized device that they use?

 

[rantng]

That “specialized device” would be Dean’s ears.

 

[twister6]

More treble than LX OG? Better extensions?

The "problem" with LX OG treble is that you have bass + treble, creating a more drastic transition since upper mids are scooped out. With EVO mids being more forward, its treble sounds more natural, smoother, and less peaky due to a more linear transition from upper mids to lower treble.

I think their treble is similar in quantity, but LX treble has more presence due to the nature of its tuning, while EVO treble has a good presence (not rolled off) but will sound more natural and not as crisp or sparkly.

 

[Skullar]

Not sure if i would call LX upper mids scooped out. For me they were in line with treble, while bass was star of the show, hence the L signature. LX OG treble became sparkly only when paired with sp2000. Honestly dx300 and R8 pairings were a touch too smooth even for me.
Now on Evo if treble stays same as OG or less pronounced, while upper mids and bass are above few dB. It will be interesting to hear. Cant even imagine tbh.
The only concern would be that it will not work with some genres well.

 

[twister6]

Not sure if i would call LX upper mids scooped out. For me they were in line with treble, while bass was star of the show, hence the L signature. LX OG treble became sparkly only when paired with sp2000. Honestly dx300 and R8 pairings were a touch too smooth even for me.
Now on Evo if treble stays same as OG or less pronounced, while upper mids and bass are above few dB. It will be interesting to hear. Cant even imagine tbh.
The only concern would be that it will not work with some genres well.

I typically use LPGT for testing, but again, we might hear it a bit differently. To me LX OG has what I would call a reversed J-shaped sound sig. Absolutely agree, the bass is the star of the show, and I do hear its treble to be more forward than mids/vocals that are more veiled and recessed. Also, could be due to me listening at lower volume. To my ears, EVO is still L-shaped but closer to what I would consider W-shaped with an enhanced bass which is still the star of the show, followed by its mids, and then treble. Your EVO wish is actually pretty close, treble is more natural and somewhat less pronounced, and upper mids 2k-4k region is more elevated, scaled up relative to LX OG. The bass is a touch lower in quantity, but more articulate, more layered, and more multi-dimensional in quality.

 

[Skullar]

I typically use LPGT for testing, but again, we might hear it a bit differently. To me LX OG has what I would call a reversed J-shaped sound sig. Absolutely agree, the bass is the star of the show, and I do hear its treble to be more forward than mids/vocals that are more veiled and recessed. Also, could be due to me listening at lower volume. To my ears, EVO is still L-shaped but closer to what I would consider W-shaped with an enhanced bass which is still the star of the show, followed by its mids, and then treble. Your EVO wish is actually pretty close, treble is more natural and somewhat less pronounced, and upper mids 2k-4k region is more elevated, scaled up relative to LX OG. The bass is a touch lower in quantity, but more articulate, more layered, and more multi-dimensional in quality.

Bass on OG, while fun, was not a technical wonder. And i had to tame midbass with tips because it was a touch too thick. Again sp2000 controlled it further. But something like R8 pairing i had to EQ down 100hz-250hz at least 3bd.
Something like ie900 beat the crap out of it in quality and speed.
But then LX OG warmth sounded really exceptional with some rock. Just missed a touch treble energy.

If bass is faster and has less midbass presence, combined with 3d soundstage assisted by BC. It might just work.
Though admittedly i head that its more balanced. I did expect more treble to make it a bit more versatile.
Need to wait and see for myself...

 

[gLer]

By the looks of it, if you want a brighter-leaning sound with more mids/treble than bass, that's what Odin is for. If you want a more natural sound grounded by the bass fundamentals but with a jump up in clarity and technical performance over the OG LX, that's what EVO is for. There's good reason not to overlap the flagships and create a singular 'hybrid'. I for one am firmly in the bass-driven natural camp, with OG LX treble being in the sweet spot for my preferences, even with the R8. If EVO takes that up a few notches, it could be the perfect Goldilocks tribrid flagship.

 

[TomKorn]

Just my 2 cents: We are people, not machines. Basically measurements mean little to nothing when it comes to evaluating gear. You need to listen to it. I heard customers say they will not like an IEM because the graph (of Crinacle in that case) says it's bad/not what I want. In the end they got a demo, tried and liked it nonetheless.

I understand that measurements play a big role in development to give manufacturers a direction and see certain issues. But they do have (like EE) a fix calibrated setup in a special isolated room that is made for that.

I know in the end, even Jack and Dean will take a lot of time listening to the prototypes and ultimately decide with their ears.

 

[TomKorn]

@Precogvision I saw Resolve also gave a quick impression of the EVO. Did you already post it here? If not, please do. Thanks

 

[Skullar]

By the looks of it, if you want a brighter-leaning sound with more mids/treble than bass, that's what Odin is for. If you want a more natural sound grounded by the bass fundamentals but with a jump up in clarity and technical performance over the OG LX, that's what EVO is for. There's good reason not to overlap the flagships and create a singular 'hybrid'. I for one am firmly in the bass-driven natural camp, with OG LX treble being in the sweet spot for my preferences, even with the R8. If EVO takes that up a few notches, it could be the perfect Goldilocks tribrid flagship.

Im just analizing EVO graph and comparing to OG really.
Odins treble is far from star of the show. Its a mid centric iem. And i do love odins treble. Neither am i expecting EVO to be tune like noble iems where all you hear is treble.
Im just noting that treble tuning in relation to Bass and Mids is set back significantly and im not sure what to make of it. Never seen it before. Im not saying that is necessarily a bad thing.

Graph is not everything. Besides, god knows what BC does to all of it.