[Luhar]

Anyone have both Odin and Solaris? Any comparison impressions?

 

[Piotr Michalak]

Received my Odin today #36 and judge that it's clearly one of the best in-ear monitors out there. This will surely be a classic. Bass 10/10. Mids 10/10. Highs 10/10. Can't say anything bad. A very refined sound. Superb technicalities on par with the greatest phones I have or have heard. Spacious with great imaging. Bass is not overbearing (I was afraid of this as a neutral head). This is an another version of perfection, besides the likes of VE8 or Wavaya Octa. I've changed the cable into my monster Goldvein 12-core silver + 1% gold and it scaled up even more from the stock one. And faceplate also looks better in reality. I'm very satisfied That was worth the price and the wait.

 

[Luhar]

Received my Odin today #36 and judge that it's clearly one of the best in-ear monitors out there. This will surely be a classic. Bass 10/10. Mids 10/10. Highs 10/10. Can't say anything bad. A very refined sound. Superb technicalities on par with the greatest phones I have or have heard. Spacious with great imaging. Bass is not overbearing (I was afraid of this as a neutral head). This is an another version of perfection, besides the likes of VE8 or Wavaya Octa. I've changed the cable into my monster Goldvein 12-core silver + 1% gold and it scaled up even more from the stock one. And faceplate also looks better in reality. I'm very satisfied That was worth the price and the wait.

Which dap are you pairing with? Stellar impressions!

 

[Piotr Michalak]

Which dap are you pairing with? Stellar impressions!

Thanks, I'm mostly using LPGT, but it sounded surprisingly good with FiiO M11 PRO SS too. Unfortunately my new Luxury & Precision P6 just died, so can't try this one Will test desktop also in the following days, but it's clearly good not based on the source synergy only.

 

[lumdicks]

Thanks, I'm mostly using LPGT, but it sounded surprisingly good with FiiO M11 PRO SS too. Unfortunately my new Luxury & Precision P6 just died, so can't try this one Will test desktop also in the following days, but it's clearly good not based on the source synergy only.

What is the problem of your P6?

 

[Deezel177]

Very informative! I’d be interested to see what you think about K. Flay’s - High Enough. It has been tossed around as being a make or break factor for the Odin, specifically for upper mids near the chorus. Personally, I can’t get that track to sound good on anything I have from chifi to TOTL. It just sounds grainy and poor overall (not just chorus), even in “mastered” form. I don’t have the FLAC of it so I’m relying on Tidal but other mastered quality songs I’ve heard on Tidal sound within earshot of most FLAC HR.

I just listened to the track off of YouTube through my MacBook Pro's headphone output to my 64 Audio A18s's (so, not the most ideal chain by any means), and nothing's sticking out to me as harsh or grainy. The A18s does have a more neutral - to some, a smidgeon laidback - upper-midrange and low-treble, which would explains this. But, given the saturation and big-ness of the vocals, I can certainly imagine how a more upper-mid-forward IEM could make it seem perhaps a tad too in-your-face. Again, this goes back to the tonality match-up I discussed earlier, because I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the mix or the master (apart from, as @gLer said, pretty strong compression). It just so happens that the track and the Odin don't mesh well. Perhaps, if it doesn't sound good on your other IEMs either, it's a source issue?

By the way, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a song in its "mastered" form. Every track in existence has been mastered. Otherwise, you'd just be listening to a sterile, dry, low-volume mix that, sure, sounds balanced (if mixed correctly), but lacks any sort of polish at all. An analogy I often use is: Mixing is like editing on Photoshop, while mastering is editing on Lightroom. When you mix, you're treating the individual tracks/channels in the mix, which would be like your layers in Photoshop. This is where you'd EQ the individual pieces of the drum kit, gate and de-ess vocals, automate levels, etc. One could say it's like mise en place (or prepping your ingredients) when you're preparing a restaurant dish. Once all that's done and the individual parts all work cohesively together, you bounce (or render) it out to a single stereo track, where you begin the mastering process.

Like editing photos in Lightroom, this is where you'd edit the track as a whole on a macro scale; where all the elements are already fused together, and you're colouring the overall look/sound of it. This would entail a final EQ to determine the final colour of the track, adding a stereo imager for extra width or depth, adding some slight reverb so the individual elements gel together (almost like cross-feed, in a way) etc. Most crucially, mastering is also where you'd bring the mix up to level (or loudness), whether it be with a compressor, maximiser, limiter or some combination of them. So, when a track sounds too compressed or "boxed-in", that typically has to do with compression in the mastering stage, where the norm nowadays is to get as loud a mix as possible for competitive radio/streaming play.

Mastering is also something that's typically done for a whole album, rather than per song, so the entire LP has a cohesive sound/colour to it that doesn't come off disjointed. A bad example of this would be Michael Bublé's Haven't Met You Yet off of his Crazy Love album. That track came out as a single before the album, and it's clear the two were mastered separately, because it sonically sticks out like a sore thumb against the rest of the LP; much more compressed, hotter up-top, etc. And, mastering is also where you could get different versions of the same track. For example, there are times when a record released in two different regions (say, the US and Japan) will have two different masters. A track mastered in standard PCM and a track mastered in DSD also have entirely different processes. So, really, when someone says file format A of a certain track sounds better than the file format B version, or streaming service A's upload of the song sounds better than streaming service B's, it can be down to differences in mastering too; certainly not always, but very possible.

This is where being able to see the microdetail in intentionally-distorted or grainy samples/glitch effects with a microscope of a TOTL IEM is NOT recommended, especially not a brighter IEM, especially one that doesn't add any warmth (and I don't mean Odin specifically, I mean generally any IEM that fits this description).

I tend to think that this is more of a subjective thing. Personally, I want to delve deeper into those noises and glitches, because they can potentially tell me more about the track. In hip-hop, for example, the use of a specific sample from a specific era can add to the meaning of a track, and sometimes those "imperfections" are needed to authentically tell that story. I also know of artists like Jacob Collier who - in his incredibly informative Logic breakdowns - describes noises he intentionally adds to a track for some extra-subtle colour. On the other hand, there certainly are also quirks in tracks that aren't deliberate and don't add anything whatsoever. An example would be a vocal ad-lib on Kehlani's Piece of Mind (around the 1:34 mark; "...million miles..." on the left channel) that the producer obviously forgot to fade-in, so you can hear a popping sound as the ad-lib starts. But, yeah, sometimes, what most would consider "flaws" do add to the song for me, so I'd chalk it up to preference or taste if it indeed was intentional on the producer's part.

 

[Piotr Michalak]

What is the problem of your P6?

It completely died second day I received it, after a night of uploading tracks. We can moved the discussion here or on priv if you can help me! https://www.head-fi.org/threads/interesting-machine-from-luxury-n-precision.918288/post-15824401

 

[mvvRAZ]

I just listened to the track off of YouTube through my MacBook Pro's headphone output to my 64 Audio A18s's (so, not the most ideal chain by any means), and nothing's sticking out to me as harsh or grainy. The A18s does have a more neutral - to some, a smidgeon laidback - upper-midrange and low-treble, which would explains this. But, given the saturation and big-ness of the vocals, I can certainly imagine how a more upper-mid-forward IEM could make it seem perhaps a tad too in-your-face. Again, this goes back to the tonality match-up I discussed earlier, because I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the mix or the master (apart from, as @gLer said, pretty strong compression). It just so happens that the track and the Odin don't mesh well. Perhaps, if it doesn't sound good on your other IEMs either, it's a source issue?

By the way, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a song in its "mastered" form. Every track in existence has been mastered. Otherwise, you'd just be listening to a sterile, dry, low-volume mix that, sure, sounds balanced (if mixed correctly), but lacks any sort of polish at all. An analogy I often use is: Mixing is like editing on Photoshop, while mastering is editing on Lightroom. When you mix, you're treating the individual tracks/channels in the mix, which would be like your layers in Photoshop. This is where you'd EQ the individual pieces of the drum kit, gate and de-ess vocals, automate levels, etc. One could say it's like mise en place (or prepping your ingredients) when you're preparing a restaurant dish. Once all that's done and the individual parts all work cohesively together, you bounce (or render) it out to a single stereo track, where you begin the mastering process.

Like editing photos in Lightroom, this is where you'd edit the track as a whole on a macro scale; where all the elements are already fused together, and you're colouring the overall look/sound of it. This would entail a final EQ to determine the final colour of the track, adding a stereo imager for extra width or depth, adding some slight reverb so the individual elements gel together (almost like cross-feed, in a way) etc. Most crucially, mastering is also where you'd bring the mix up to level (or loudness), whether it be with a compressor, maximiser, limiter or some combination of them. So, when a track sounds too compressed or "boxed-in", that typically has to do with compression in the mastering stage, where the norm nowadays is to get as loud a mix as possible for competitive radio/streaming play.

Mastering is also something that's typically done for a whole album, rather than per song, so the entire LP has a cohesive sound/colour to it that doesn't come off disjointed. A bad example of this would be Michael Bublé's Haven't Met You Yet off of his Crazy Love album. That track came out as a single before the album, and it's clear the two were mastered separately, because it sonically sticks out like a sore thumb against the rest of the LP; much more compressed, hotter up-top, etc. And, mastering is also where you could get different versions of the same track. For example, there are times when a record released in two different regions (say, the US and Japan) will have two different masters. A track mastered in standard PCM and a track mastered in DSD also have entirely different processes. So, really, when someone says file format A of a certain track sounds better than the file format B version, or streaming service A's upload of the song sounds better than streaming service B's, it can be down to differences in mastering too; certainly not always, but very possible.



I tend to think that this is more of a subjective thing. Personally, I want to delve deeper into those noises and glitches, because they can potentially tell me more about the track. In hip-hop, for example, the use of a specific sample from a specific era can add to the meaning of a track, and sometimes those "imperfections" are needed to authentically tell that story. I also know of artists like Jacob Collier who - in his incredibly informative Logic breakdowns - describes noises he intentionally adds to a track for some extra-subtle colour. On the other hand, there certainly are also quirks in tracks that aren't deliberate and don't add anything whatsoever. An example would be a vocal ad-lib on Kehlani's Piece of Mind (around the 1:34 mark; "...million miles..." on the left channel) that the producer obviously forgot to fade-in, so you can hear a popping sound as the ad-lib starts. But, yeah, sometimes, what most would consider "flaws" do add to the song for me, so I'd chalk it up to preference or taste if it indeed was intentional on the producer's part.

An album I’d heavily recommend for the A18S is Jungle - Jungle. Ever since I heard it on that IEM I’ve been conclusively unable to listen to it anywhere else because of how much inferior it sounds

 

[Piotr Michalak]

An album I’d heavily recommend for the A18S is Jungle - Jungle. Ever since I heard it on that IEM I’ve been conclusively unable to listen to it anywhere else because of how much inferior it sounds

A18s is still bassy to me and I need to get used to it every time I use it. Still trying to understand it.
However I appreciate how nicely tuned and coherent the mids are in the overall "warm and bassy but coherent" sound concept (could be called warm dark neutral).

 

[mvvRAZ]

Just testing out the track with the BLON-03 from the LG V30+/Tidal. Sounds great - but - you need to realise there's intentional scratchiness/analog grain in some of the samples (I can tell they're samples because parts of the track are super clean). It's also compressed as s***, which is par for the course for modern trip-hop/hip-hop, so go easy on the volume dial. This is where being able to see the microdetail in intentionally-distorted or grainy samples/glitch effects with a microscope of a TOTL IEM is NOT recommended, especially not a brighter IEM, especially one that doesn't add any warmth (and I don't mean Odin specifically, I mean generally any IEM that fits this description).

I like using that song as it is isn't the absolute screechiest that I listen to in my collection (nothing compared to Missio's Loner album), and if an IEM makes it sound sufficiently unpleasant it will also not do well with a lot of other albums that I listen to regularly (including a lot of stuff by Florence + The Machine).

It sounds great off everything I own right now, including the A18S, Thummim, Elysium (listening to it as I type actually ), and off a lot of the stuff that I've owned in the past and enjoyed. The Erl is an IEM I found a bit boring but it reproduced it without any issue whatsoever as well, and honestly the same can be said about just about any IEM who's upper midrange is not overloaded.

This is an ultra wide generalisation so don't take it as pure statistics or facts, but having spoken to some manufacturers, reviewers and dealers in Asia, I've been told that this kind of upper midrange tuning sells extremely well in Asia and sounds exceptional with Chinese pop. I haven't heard any myself so I can't comment on that from personal experience but it's worth thinking about. (Before someone makes a stupid ass comment that I'm being racist, I am not saying every Asian dude loves overloaded upper mids)

 

[CL14715]

I just listened to the track off of YouTube through my MacBook Pro's headphone output to my 64 Audio A18s's (so, not the most ideal chain by any means), and nothing's sticking out to me as harsh or grainy. The A18s does have a more neutral - to some, a smidgeon laidback - upper-midrange and low-treble, which would explains this. But, given the saturation and big-ness of the vocals, I can certainly imagine how a more upper-mid-forward IEM could make it seem perhaps a tad too in-your-face. Again, this goes back to the tonality match-up I discussed earlier, because I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the mix or the master (apart from, as @gLer said, pretty strong compression). It just so happens that the track and the Odin don't mesh well. Perhaps, if it doesn't sound good on your other IEMs either, it's a source issue?

By the way, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a song in its "mastered" form. Every track in existence has been mastered. Otherwise, you'd just be listening to a sterile, dry, low-volume mix that, sure, sounds balanced (if mixed correctly), but lacks any sort of polish at all. An analogy I often use is: Mixing is like editing on Photoshop, while mastering is editing on Lightroom. When you mix, you're treating the individual tracks/channels in the mix, which would be like your layers in Photoshop. This is where you'd EQ the individual pieces of the drum kit, gate and de-ess vocals, automate levels, etc. One could say it's like mise en place (or prepping your ingredients) when you're preparing a restaurant dish. Once all that's done and the individual parts all work cohesively together, you bounce (or render) it out to a single stereo track, where you begin the mastering process.

Like editing photos in Lightroom, this is where you'd edit the track as a whole on a macro scale; where all the elements are already fused together, and you're colouring the overall look/sound of it. This would entail a final EQ to determine the final colour of the track, adding a stereo imager for extra width or depth, adding some slight reverb so the individual elements gel together (almost like cross-feed, in a way) etc. Most crucially, mastering is also where you'd bring the mix up to level (or loudness), whether it be with a compressor, maximiser, limiter or some combination of them. So, when a track sounds too compressed or "boxed-in", that typically has to do with compression in the mastering stage, where the norm nowadays is to get as loud a mix as possible for competitive radio/streaming play.

Mastering is also something that's typically done for a whole album, rather than per song, so the entire LP has a cohesive sound/colour to it that doesn't come off disjointed. A bad example of this would be Michael Bublé's Haven't Met You Yet off of his Crazy Love album. That track came out as a single before the album, and it's clear the two were mastered separately, because it sonically sticks out like a sore thumb against the rest of the LP; much more compressed, hotter up-top, etc. And, mastering is also where you could get different versions of the same track. For example, there are times when a record released in two different regions (say, the US and Japan) will have two different masters. A track mastered in standard PCM and a track mastered in DSD also have entirely different processes. So, really, when someone says file format A of a certain track sounds better than the file format B version, or streaming service A's upload of the song sounds better than streaming service B's, it can be down to differences in mastering too; certainly not always, but very possible.



I tend to think that this is more of a subjective thing. Personally, I want to delve deeper into those noises and glitches, because they can potentially tell me more about the track. In hip-hop, for example, the use of a specific sample from a specific era can add to the meaning of a track, and sometimes those "imperfections" are needed to authentically tell that story. I also know of artists like Jacob Collier who - in his incredibly informative Logic breakdowns - describes noises he intentionally adds to a track for some extra-subtle colour. On the other hand, there certainly are also quirks in tracks that aren't deliberate and don't add anything whatsoever. An example would be a vocal ad-lib on Kehlani's Piece of Mind (around the 1:34 mark; "...million miles..." on the left channel) that the producer obviously forgot to fade-in, so you can hear a popping sound as the ad-lib starts. But, yeah, sometimes, what most would consider "flaws" do add to the song for me, so I'd chalk it up to preference or taste if it indeed was intentional on the producer's part.

I meant mastered as in being label as “master” quality in tidal. I know that all are mastered in finished form.

If it was a source issue then it’s every source I have. Maybe the compression is what I’m picking up that I don’t like about it. Definitely not a track that I’d use to evaluate anything high end.

 

[mvvRAZ]

I meant mastered as in being label as “master” quality in tidal. I know that all are mastered in finished form.

If it was a source issue then it’s every source I have. Maybe the compression is what I’m picking up that I don’t like about it. Definitely not a track that I’d use to evaluate anything high end.

It depends on your approach - whether you choose gear that makes your music sound good or you choose music that makes your gear sound good.

If I spend over 3000$ on something I definitely want it to sound good with stuff that I listen to daily, including compressed pop, alternative, rock or rap recordings

I find that saying that certain music isn’t good enough for high end audiophile gear is the very definition of audiophile elitism. It’s even sillier considering just how large the music industry is and how absolutely tiny the audiophile industry is

 

[Piotr Michalak]

Here's A18S versus Odin if anyone's interested, that's exactly what I hear too. Measurements are mine and IEC711 compliant. Odin is much cleaner, A18s is generally dark, this one is good for instrumental music like single guitar or piano, as a bassy-neutral with a hole in the highs, it makes instrumental music more... musical, with the fundamentals boosted. Odin is much more universal I think, also the highs are to die for, may be the best quad-EST implementation I have heard, but still need to compare directly to Wavaya Octa (that's one underappreciated CIEM!!!).

 

[subguy812]

I like using that song as it is isn't the absolute screechiest that I listen to in my collection (nothing compared to Missio's Loner album), and if an IEM makes it sound sufficiently unpleasant it will also not do well with a lot of other albums that I listen to regularly (including a lot of stuff by Florence + The Machine).

It sounds great off everything I own right now, including the A18S, Thummim, Elysium (listening to it as I type actually ), and off a lot of the stuff that I've owned in the past and enjoyed. The Erl is an IEM I found a bit boring but it reproduced it without any issue whatsoever as well, and honestly the same can be said about just about any IEM who's upper midrange is not overloaded.

This is an ultra wide generalisation so don't take it as pure statistics or facts, but having spoken to some manufacturers, reviewers and dealers in Asia, I've been told that this kind of upper midrange tuning sells extremely well in Asia and sounds exceptional with Chinese pop. I haven't heard any myself so I can't comment on that from personal experience but it's worth thinking about. (Before someone makes a stupid ass comment that I'm being racist, I am not saying every Asian dude loves overloaded upper mids)

Do you really feel the need to continue to come to the EE thread and say the same thing about the three IEMs you own? Wash, rinse and repeat. Everyone gets it, you returned ODIN, it wasn't for you. I am certain if more than 4 people heard the $4500 Thummim/Eletech there would be 1 that would think it wasn't for them. I know know, there is a closed tour.

As I said earlier, everyone is welcome to share an opinion, no one will show you the door here. I would sure encourage respect though. At this point what value do you bring to this thread. Allow me to say it for you one more time, Michael returned his ODIN, he didn't like it. He likes the Thummim/Eletech, A18s and Elysium.

Earlier posts today, you said the ODIN is unlistenable, you didnt say to you, you said unlistenable, that is ridiculous. To say it isn't your signature may be more accurate. Correct me if I am wrong, but has anyone from EE thread gone to MMRs thread or Eletech thread(one in the same) and commenced to talking only about the other IEMs they own, especially while dissing their brand? The brand whose thread you are in.

Correct, I do not agree with your methodology, but respect your right to share your views. I owe Empire Ears nothing but a fair shake and I plan to give it to them and have up to this point. Not all of my comments have been glowing, EE knows that.

I have brought the thread my highlights during burn-in, which is still on-going. I am at a point where I can begin tip rolling because I have my base-line. I have waited to do this, because like cable rolling, not everyone that buys ODIN will have the same eartips or an Eletech cable, but they will have a Stormbreaker and Final E tips. So it only makes sense to formulate initial impressions based on that. Then add in cables and eartips after a solid foundation to include seasoning.

 

[Tristy]

Do you really feel the need to continue to come to the EE thread and say the same thing about the three IEMs you own? Wash, rinse and repeat. Everyone gets it, you returned ODIN, it wasn't for you. I am certain if more than 4 people heard the $4500 Thummim/Eletech there would be 1 that would think it wasn't for them. I know know, there is a closed tour.

As I said earlier, everyone is welcome to share an opinion, no one will show you the door here. I would sure encourage respect though. At this point what value do you bring to this thread. Allow me to say it for you one more time, Michael returned his ODIN, he didn't like it. He likes the Thummim/Eletech, A18s and Elysium.

Earlier posts today, you said the ODIN is unlistenable, you didnt say to you, you said unlistenable, that is ridiculous. To say it isn't your signature may be more accurate. Correct me if I am wrong, but has anyone from EE thread gone to MMRs thread or Eletech thread(one in the same) and commenced to talking only about the other IEMs they own, especially while dissing their brand? The brand whose thread you are in.

Correct, I do not agree with your methodology, but respect your right to share your views. I owe Empire Ears nothing but a fair shake and I plan to give it to them and have up to this point. Not all of my comments have been glowing, EE knows that.

I have brought the thread my highlights during burn-in, which is still on-going. I am at a point where I can begin tip rolling because I have my base-line. I have waited to do this, because like cable rolling, not everyone that buys ODIN will have the same eartips or an Eletech cable, but they will have a Stormbreaker and Final E tips. So it only makes sense to formulate initial impressions based on that. Then add in cables and eartips after a solid foundation to include seasoning.

It’s funny because I wouldn’t spend a fraction of the retail price on Thummim. In fact, with my experience of it on the tour, it came across as a worse Legend X, attempting to do what the Legend X does but failing. Limp dynamics, muted treble and the soundstage had less width imo. I don’t know why I have heard so much praise about it but I reckon Odin would wipe the floor with it... I know that the Legend X did for me!

Given some members affiliations and Thummim being a direct competitor to Odin, I can see why there might be some posts that you would need to take with a (large) grain of salt.