[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Someone mentioned MSB earlier - saw this on the front of the latest Aussie Hi-Fi magazine the other day. Too rich for my blood.  

 
MSB's DAC products start at 6K, with the power base for each DAC ranging from 3.5k to 6k. By contrast. the MA-1 seems a screaming bargain. Party on, trust fund recipients !  
 

 
 
http://www.msbtech.com/products/platinumHome.php

 
Yep, VERY expensive. MSB makes their own R2R DACs though, there's nothing off the shelf in there from Burr-Brown or Analog Devices.

 

[Radio_head]

Their new analog DAC is quite a looker.  Price adds up though if you want multiple inputs, wifi, volume control, and external PS.
 
10K for a clock module is insane.

 

[sridhar3]

Despite the batsh!t insane sticker prices, you can find secondhand MSB stuff on A'goN going at much more reasonable rates.

 

[Radio_head]

Unfortunately, their current gen DACs rarely show up.  There's been a maxxed out Gen 3 Dac for 7K for about 6 months without a buyer - that's part of the issue.  You may spend 20K this year, but in a couple years they'll release a new generation and your DAC will be trash.  This renders the allure of "upgradable" largely useless.  

 

[estreeter]

'trash' ? Not to my way of thinking - the Berkeley Alpha still has plenty of fans, and by my count that design is at least 3-4 years old. Always happy to hear otherwise.

 

[Radio_head]

"Trash" for perception in regards to resale value.  The first Berkeley alpha is really hard to unload now, and I've seen people get lowballed for $1500 and feel "forced" to take it because no better offer was on the table.

 

[Currawong]

I very nearly considered buying the first Alpha at $3.5K a year or so ago and now I'm glad I didn't.

 

[Quest88]

If you worry about the depreciation, then my advice is to buy a DAC that is able to be sent for upgrades.
My own DAC has been upgraded once when async usb came out, and now there is an option for DSD upgrade as well.

There's no way to stop new models/improvements from coming out.
Personally, my DAC is less than 10% the cost of the system as I feel it's really tough to swallow the depreciation beyond a certain point. It's always tempting though.. I was looking at the DAC2X at one point myself.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I very nearly considered buying the first Alpha at $3.5K a year or so ago and now I'm glad I didn't.

 
Yep, they are now regularly for sale at $2.5K, no takers. The DAC that got it the worst was the Esoteric D-07. Values on that just cratered pretty much immediately. I wonder how much Computer Audiophile's review had to do with that. ARC's DAC8 seemed to hold near MSRP for awhile, as did the Weiss DAC202. Both of those are now coming down into the more reasonable range on the used market.
 
For awhile people were asking stupid money for Theta Gen VIII S1s, then those seemed to all disappear. Apparently there's an S3 out now, but I don't know what's changed. Still overpriced though I'm sure.

 

[estreeter]

From my brief time at Audiokarma, it would seem that McIntosh amps hold their value extremely well (and we are talking some very old amps in many cases), but the DAC arena is clearly besieged by constant technical development. Even so, when is 'good enough' really good enough ? Sooner or later, someone makes a buying decision.
 
I dont think this is limited to audio, btw - a gearhead might be happy to pay serious money for a cherry '69 Road Runner on the basis that Chrysler will never make another car quite like it - less so buying the latest rocket from Japan when you know the 'RS Mk IV' will inevitably be followed by a 'RS Mk V', some 12-18 months later  I know which of the two sounds better. but its all about priorities. The Mac also has the cult behind it - same-same the Road Runner : you just don't build that kind of following overnight. 

 

[harmonix]

Thanks for the feedback.  Have you had a chance to hear the MA-1 versus the DAC2x?

No I haven't though they had it. All I can say is that Allen the guy at the dealer I have known for more than a decade is a vinyl guru and he is spending a lot of time and energy playing around with the 2x. The ma-1 was quietly sitting alone in another part of the shop.

I typically expect diminishing returns past a certain performance and price point I was sceptical of the emm at first but have now put my order in for one. To me the difference is not MARGINAL, it just has some secret sauce that I can't put my finger on - and it's not "better imaging, soundstage depth blah blah blah". It does but you don't focus on it. The word "groovin" comes to mind. Something I use when listening to performers rather than to equipment but I was listening to a Miles recording... Hey what do I know

Finally, there seems to be a hint of alpha dac dissing going around. Frankly the alpha is damn good and for the money.

 

[Radio_head]

The alpha is great.
 
The "dissing" is commenting on the state of the DAC used market in general, especially on "older" generation models - this is not specific to the alpha.

 

[DaveBSC]

I'm not sure the Alpha is worth MSRP, but as a used buy, definitely. One of my favorite DACs has also gotten more affordable lately - the Levinson 360S. They are now in the $2500 range, down from $3500 not that long ago. One of the very best PCM1704U-K based DACs.

 

[harmonix]

Quote:

I'm not sure the Alpha is worth MSRP, but as a used buy, definitely. One of my favorite DACs has also gotten more affordable lately - the Levinson 360S. They are now in the $2500 range, down from $3500 not that long ago. One of the very best PCM1704U-K based DACs.

I've never fell in love with the 360s though $2500 is quite a bit more palatable and frankly don't understand why people rate it so highly.
I would still go for an Alpha for the the same price and get it upgraded to series 2...

 

[harmonix]

Quote:

The alpha is great.
 
The "dissing" is commenting on the state of the DAC used market in general, especially on "older" generation models - this is not specific to the alpha.

I know how that feels - same thing with used digital cameras....